Electrocompaniet EMC II CD Player

My spider arrived, I opened the box and my first reaction upon opening the Spider package was " I paid $ 350.00 for this" ?

I installed the Spider tonight and was able to do a couple of hours of comparative listening. It was fairly simple to install. The toughest part of the installation was the removal of the plastic disc that sits on the top of the drive of the EMC-1 (use a needle nose pliers and alternately pry each side of the disc up a little until it comes off. There is a little notch on each side of the plastic disc where you can insert the nose of the pliers).

My good friend, who has been with me every step of the way in building my system over the past 2 years, and I carefully listened to around 8 pieces of music that we have heard literally over a hundred times prior to installing the spider and then listened to the same 8 pieces again after having installed the Spider. I would have loved to gone back and forth listening again to the EMC without the Spider and with the Spider to get a reconfirmation of what we heard, but I did not want to run the risk of damaging any of the parts or EMC. I have found, over time, I get much more of a sense of the improvement yielded in the sonics when I go back to the original set up and back and forth a few more times prior to making a change in the system. In this case the changes were obvious enough not to require the back & forth. Based on my installation experience, I would not suggest on going back and forth installing and taking out the Spider.

We listened to a composite CD that I had burned with various types of music that covers the entire frequency spectrum and have been using for the past couple of years while my system has evolved. The CD has been treated with Vivid, Blackened, cut on an Audio Desk cutter and had the static removed by a Furutech anti-static device each time we listened.

My second reaction came when listening to the Spider sound improvements and was 2 jaw drops followed by two big smiles. Both my friend and I agreed on all of the sound improvements we heard.

The bass was more tuneful, controlled, detailed and a bit more extended. Overall there was more air around the instruments and voices. We got much more of a sense of the recording venue and there was more resolution and focus in all of the frequencies.

The mids were warmer and more detailed as were the highs with more of a sense of liquidity and no edges or artifacts. Overall there was much more emotion from the music, just beautiful.

I had put my order for a Spider in last March and am more than happy with the results after a long wait. The differences were not at all subtle. The Spider is well worth the $ 350.00 and then some for all the gains we heard. I think you will be well pleased with the Spider if your system is at all revealing.

Below is my system as it sits now. I thought it might be helpful to you in light of my comments on the changes yielded by the Spider:

Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP CD player
Supratek Cortese pre-amp
Mark Levinson 23.5 200 watt amp
Sonus Faber Extrema speakers
REL Stentor III Subwoofer

Ensemble Isolink Duo transformer (to EMC-1 & Cortese)
RS Audio RCA interconnects from EMC-1 to Cortese
Shunyata XLR Aries interconnects from Cortese to Amp
NBS Statement III Speaker Cables
2 - 20 AMP 12 gauge Romex dedicated lines
2 - Cryoed, Gold plated Wattgate receptacles
5 - BMI Shark power cords
2 - BMI WHALE SUPREME power cords
1 - BMI Shark IPLC passive line conditioner

Silent Running VR series stands under the Amp, Isolink & EMC-1UP

2 - set of Symposium Roller Blocks, placed under the Electrocompaniet CD player & Supratek pre-amp
Versalab Red Rollers RFI filters for the interconnects
Versalab Wood Blocks RFI filters for the power cords

I would love to know if anyone has sent an EMC-1UP out for the $1,400.00 Empirical Audio mods installed by Steve Nugent and let us all know what it does for the sound. Is it worth the $ 1,400.00 ?

Has any one tried replacing the connecting wire for the RCA inputs with insulated silver wire as has been suggested by Subarguru and if so what were the results ? I have a pre-amp that has RCA inputs only (the output side does have both RCA and XLR outputs) and am considering the Steve Nugent mod and or changing out the internal connectors to the RCA. I love my tubed pre-amp and am not willing to part with it.

Please feel free to make any comments or suggestions on my system.

Larry

The Spider is finally here in the States. I have one coming that's " in the mail ". I will post my reaction once I have it in place and have done some listening (probably within a week). You can get one now from Brian @ Artistic Audio (good guy). Check his ad on Audiogon.

Subaruguru, I would start chasing a Spider now. I did not include in my post that the Spider is milled steel (looks like it took some extra work to get it done and then some). It is well beyond a $ 25.00 disc.

I also did not stress that the music has become a good bit more emotionally involving. That sense has been reinforced over the last couple of days.

I am anxious to hear if anyone else gets a Spider and they get the same types of improvement in their system (or not).

IMHO this piece is a deal at the $ 350.00 for what it has done for my system.

Subaruguru, I did not include in my post that the Spider is milled steel (looks like it took some extra work to get it done and then some). It does look more significant than a $ 25.00 disc or something you could crank out at home. I also did not stress that the music has become a good bit more emotionally involving. That sense has been reinforced over the last couple of days.

I am anxious to hear if anyone else gets a Spider and they get the same types of improvement in their system (or not).

IMHO, the Spider is much more than a tweak and more like a system upgrade. I feel that the sound improvements we heard make this a deal at the $399.00 price for what it has done for my system. If you see a few more reactions similar to mine, I would not count on seeing one on the used market anytime soon.

Barrelchief, I would not miss out on either the 1-UP upgrade or the Spider. I did the 1-UP upgrade a year and a half ago and it was a solid improvement. The Spider was surprisingly good, but my system is tremendously more revealing now when I added the Spider than 1.5 years ago and it is now hard to separate what each upgrade will be worth more to you in your system.

If you have the cash to do both (and I would do both), I would suggest that you do the 1-UP (get them to replace the internal RCA connector with a shielded silver wire as well if you are going to use the RCA out from the EMC) and then get the Spider.

If you do not get enough sonic improvement out of the Spider in your system, you can sell it to Subaruguru (if he has not broken down and bought a Spider by then). I am guessing that the 1-UP will also be a lot easier re-sale in the used market if you ever decide to sell it down the road and you should be able to recover a percentage of the cost of the Spider.

You can contact Brian Ackerman at Artistic Audio or Fs Audio and work your best deal on the 1-UP upgrade. The turn around time was only a couple of days at the factory plus shipping time when I did mine. The Importer, Allan Warshaw was good about booking appointments and will have you ship your unit directly to them when they are ready to work on yours. You won't be without your player for long.

Tvad, I checked my EMC-1UP to see if the spindle allowed any play on my unit after installing the Spider and in my case it is solid as a rock.

The significant sonic improvements that I am experiencing and increase in emotional involvement are not at all small or hard to perceive. I don’t think you have to have an exceptional ear to appreciate the improvements and difference I heard after installing the Spider.

I can only guess that the play that your CD has around the spindle might possibly be preventing you from getting the benefits from the Spider.

I am interested in hearing from anyone who has done the Empirical Audio mod by Steve Nugent. It would be great to hear what benefits came out of the mod and in particular from someone that is running out of the RCA into a tubed pre-amp (I am currently going out of the RCA outs into RCA's inputs of a Supratek Cortese). Do you think it was worth the $ 1,400.00

Has anyone tried replacing the internal RCA connector with a better shielded silver wire, and if so what kind of results did you get ?

Tvad, Subaruguru. My error, the Spider is a milled (not cast) Aluminum Alloy with a magnet in the center.

I don't agree with the Tvad on the lack of substantial improvement produced by the Spider. I would love to hear anyone else weigh in with their Spider experience.

I will probably be looking into doing either the Empirical Audio's mod or the one mentioned by Subaruguru. Has anyone done the Empirical Mod and then added the Spider ? It would be great to add your opinion of the incremental improvements of both.

Tvad, This will be a long response:

I agree completely that there is an imbalance of more positive to negative reactions / reviews of equipment. I think that is in part due to the enthusiasm of someone "who has found it" for that moment and they want to share a positive experience with other audiophiles.

On the other side, I think it is not in a person's nature (there are some exceptions) to complain in a public forum. Think of how many times you have seen someone not happy with their dinner or a dish, gripe at the table to their dinner companions at a restaurant and then not say anything to the waiter. They usually just don't go back to that restaurant.

A lot of the threads like the Electrocompaniet threads are started by people who are enthusiastic about a certain piece of equipment and want to share their joy or are looking for information to help in the decision in making their next move on the upgrade trail.

All of audio is a very subjective experience much in the same vein as the appreciation of art. I think there is plenty of room for someone to love a piece of equipment based on their taste while someone has completely the opposite reaction. There is also a huge subjective issue with regards to the variables of the synergy of other pieces of equipment, power, room design and software quality used in one’s system. You might have a totally different experience listening to my system and I yours.

In the debates over the EMC-1UP and the Spider, the discussion relates to the perceived benefits and perceived value. Most people on the post love their Electrocompaniet. A good many think it is over priced based on the perceived (or actual) build quality, but they love the sound. A good question to ponder is “ what is out there in the same price range as the Electrocompaniet that comes close or beats the sound quality”. To date, I have not found it. Build quality ? My EMC-1UP has been running almost 24/7 for going on two years and I have not had the first bit of trouble. Ask Mike as FS Audio (an honest, decent dealer) privately what his view of the Electrcompaniet is and what benefits he hears out of the Spider (I have not spoken with him, but he has a good reputation0. He does have a conflict of interest since he sells Electrocompaniet, but he has a reputation for being knowledgeable and honest.

In my case, the Spider did big things for my system’s sound. A good friend (who has an incredible ear and writes reviews for classical music concerts) and who has listened to my system found all of the same improvements that I heard and in the same order of magnitude.

My system is quite resolving and possibly I am hearing things other people might not or my system may have needed a Spider much more than yours.

How do you put a price tag on the improvements the Spider produces ? It depends on how much it did for you. I heard enough improvement for it to be considered a system upgrade, like a new AMP, great power cord or dedicated power lines. So what is that worth ? To me, the Spider looks like it is worth under $ 100.00 tops $ 200.00, but the sonic improvements would have me pay a great deal more than the $ 350.00 I paid. I am smiling every time I listen. I am also getting harder pressed to eek out more improvements as time goes by and the Spider was one of the easier less costly ones.

Fortunately and unfortunately, I can no longer run balanced out of the XLR outputs of the Electrocompaniet since I changed over to a tubed pre-amp (Supratek Cortese, tube pre) that only accepts RCA for the input side of the pre. The Cortese was such an upgrade over my previous Sim Audio Moon P-5 pre-amp that I will have to live with the RCA outs of the Electrocompaniet. Thanks for the advice on that one. I am hoping that upgrading the internal wiring to the RCA output of the Electrocompaniet with Shielded Silver wires and silver solder will give me some improvement. As I mentioned before, I am looking into doing the Steve Nugent mod.

I am looking forward to hearing from some more EMC-1-UP owners that install the Spider to see if my reactions are that of a majority of one or they also see significant improvements.

Tvad I was not referring to you at all with the "complaining in public" comment. I was addressing your point of the imbalance of there being a great deal more positive reactions/reviews than a greatly lesser amount of negative comments/reviews and why there might not be so many negative reviews.

The lack of negative reviews might also be driven by the owner, about to sell his component on Audiogon, not wanting to slam a product that he is about to sell to another Audiogon member.

I appreciate the fact that you are not hearing an improvement in your system where I am in mine. For my edification, I wonder if anyone could weigh in on what might cause the drastic difference of the reactions to the benefits of the Spider on our two systems. The component list that makes up my system is listed in my post of 1-06-04.

I will probably end up doing the Steve Nugent mod next time I go on vacation and let you know what it does for me. Hopefully by then, he has come up with some new great ideas for his mod.

I intend to ask Steve if there is anything to do about improving the RCA side of the outputs beyond just changing out inner connecting wires to the RCA outs.

I do welcome the critical comments as much (probably more) than the positive. It is hard to make an informed decision when one is getting a limited view of the issues.

Happy Listening !

Swampwalker,

Thanks for the idea of the XLR/RCA interconnect. Somewhere along this thread or possibly in the "Pre-amp Deal of the Century" thread that focuses on Supratek pre-amps, someone had commented that they perceived no sonic difference between going RCA to RCA from the EMC-1 versus your idea of going XLR from the EMC-1 into an RCA in the pre-amp.

It would be great to do an A/B comparison where you between using an RCA/RCA and comparing that to your XLR/RCA idea. If you are in a position to try that experiment, it will be great to hear back from you.

Mike from Father & Son Audio mentioned in this thread that he would entertain a group deal.

Please do give us your comments when and if you install a Spider. Is your EMC-1 the UP version ? Have you done Steven Nugent’s mod ?

Thanks for your input.

Aluminum Silver (not polished)