Duelund conversion to DIY Helix Geometry Cabling

@ketchup ....

Interconnects

• 60+ hours to sound good
• allow up to 250 hours to sound their best

Speaker Cables

• 40+ hours to sound good
• allow up to 200 hours to sound their best

Power Cables

• 40 + hours to sound good
• 100 Hours to sound their best

All cables start off sounding great, but they  tend to sound a little rough after around the 15-20 hours mark and then they get better

Hope that helps - Steve

@mbolek  - This goes back to the days when I used stranded wire for both neutral and live/signal wires

I'm not so sure it is still applicable to cables that now use solid wires for the Live/Signal conductors

Regards

@camrector - I’m not disputing your claims, I was just pointing out that the wire that is sold as OCC copper by my "Trusted sources" performs significantly better than OFC copper and even Mundorf solid silver wire and therefore would provide the performance I was observing

I think going forward and for the purpose of this thread that the wire that is being marketed as OCC wire by companies like Neotech, whilst they may not be actual OCC wire in the true sence, the term OCC is understood in the audio community as identifying a wire of a higher quality (i.e. superior to OFC copper)

FWIW - the bare OCC wire I purchased from Parts Connecxion actually performed a little better than the Neotech wire when used in an identical Helix AIR cable, where the Neotech cables had been stripped of it’s insulation.

Perhaps the improved perofrmance was due to it’s 6N rating as opposed to the Neotech 5N rating. No idea where they get it from, but it is a very good wire indeed

Just from a pure interest perspective

• where did you happen to find this information - I would like to read more
• Who does Wan Lung sell their wire too?
• Do they make wire for the audio market?

Many Thanks - Steve

@lewinskih01 - re:

and what internal wiring you use? Helix geometry or regular? Maybe it doesn’t make a difference.

Others have told me that using the hElix geometry on any type of connection will improve sound quality i.e.

1. for signal transfer i.e. internal connection involving a +ve and neutral wire
2. for internal power supply connections
   • one guy rewired all of his internal AC wiring using the Helix geometry in his components

WRT internal wiring of speakers - provided the SIGNAL and NEUTRAL wires are seperated by at leat one inch of space I do not think the Helix geometry is required

• but would still use the "Air" approach for the wires
  • Air is - solid wire inside larger diameter teflon tube
• and probably use
  • solid UP-OCC silver for the SIGNAL wires
    • IF THE BUDGET PERMITS
  • solid UP-OCC copper for the NEUTRAL wires

Regards - Steve

@lewinskih01 - apologies for the delay in responding - I haven’t been monitoring this thread (or any others) of late.

The 2 x 18 gauge is effectively 15 gauge, which is more than enough for speaker cables of any size.

• early on I compared a single 16 gauge wire to a single 14 gauge wire and could not tell the difference on my full range speakers

The wires you have selected should be fine and I would use a 5/16" rod - this should not impact performance

Regars - Steve

@norco74 - I would pass on that feedback to KLE Innovations - they do make changes if there is a valid case for an upgrade.

They may not change the existing model, but they may introduce an upgraded product to their lineup, specifically for amps like yours

I have a Byrston B135 and had a similar problem, so I ground a little bit off of the plastic insulator, at the point where the metal comes out,, which made for a much better seating of the plug

Unforutnaltely, there is no standard for the length of the contact point, which can be problemeatic in some instances

Regards - Steve

@lemonhaze - WRT

Are these intended for analogue or digital duties?

The really nice thing about the Helix design with the Harmony RCA plugs, is that they can be used for either duty, without reservation.

You also do not need to worry about the length of the interconnects when used for digital purposes

• I have used lengths from 18 inches to 6 ft and not noticed any degredation of sound from either analogue or digital interconnects
• others report the same for Balanced cables also.

WRT the my comments regarding possible corrosion - turns out my "fears", or perhaps a better word would be suspicions, regarding the possible corrosion of bare wires inside teflon tubes were without merit.

In the 18 months since I implemented the first Helix Image Air adaption, I can report that while the initial brightness of the copper has become a little more subdued after the first couple of months, it now appears that any further dulling has not taken place.

Whereas the piece of "sacrificial" bare wire wire that I placed on top of my audio stand for comparison purposes has now become very dull.

So I believe that the glue in the heat shrink I use has been very effective in sealing the teflon tubes.

Others have used hot glue to seal the tubes, which is also very effective

But it is always very educational to hear of other creative solutions to any problem, so thank you very much for your most informative post.

I’m sure other members will also find it very useful

Regards - Steve

@lemonhaze - I'm yet to hear of anyone using the Helx geometry with BNC connectors, so I am unable to recommend that type of connector.

Here's a few from Parts Connexion...

Search Results for: bnc (partsconnexion.com)

Hope that helps

@lemonhaze - RE:

I am about to order some Teflon tubing and have the choice of 0.5mm or 1.0 mm wall thickness. Is one better for the purpose than the other?

I’m pretty confident that there would be little to no difference between the tubes, because there is minimal contact area between the wire and the teflon tube

Would it be a different case if the teflon were molded on the wire?

• I think if you had two identical wires, but one had thicker layer of the same Teflon insulation, then it would not perform as well as well as the wire with a thinner layer of insulation

Hope that makes sense

Regards - Steve

@lemonhaze, 2 x 18 gauge occ silver is great for source components. I would use 1x14 gauge solid OCC copper for the neutral.

The silver plated copper from TFA is not quite as good but very good if you are on a budget

The sonarqusest are my first choice for connectors because they tend to use heavier gauge copper and thinker plating.

Hope that helps

@escapevelocity - welcome !

#1 - I assume you mean insulating the two wires ?

• well I first tried two wires in one tube - then someone tried each wire in it’s own tube, so I tried it and it sounded better - improved clarity

#2 - I have tried several diameter helix coils and I have obsereved no difference

• but makeing the interconenct coil as small as possible allows for the RCA casing to move freely.
• for the speaker wire, you have to allow sufficient space for inserting the signal wires down the longer length of cable - it can bind on a tighter coil

#3 I have 9 ft cables and the spacing is about 1 cm

• stretching the coil to almost twice that for a 17 ft cable might not be wise
• i would aim for about 1.5 cm coil spacing at most
• the trick is to provide sufficient coverage to the signal wire and disrupt any external noise interference e.g. like a Faraday cage would

Hope that helps

If you have any more questions just ask - we’re here to help

Regards - Steve

@sasho - apologies for not answering sooner

WRT

have you tried 1 x solid core Neoteck Up OCC 12 AWG with original teflon or Cardas Chassis hook up 11.5 AWG wire Instead of 2 x 14 AWG bare OCC for signal In speaker cable

Unfortunately I have not compared these Gauge/wires in speaker cables

• I did try 1 x 12 gauge vs. 2 x 14 gauge Neotech wires in power cables and the 2 x 14 gauge perfromed better
• I did try 1 x 14 gauge Notech with teflon insulation and 1 x 14 gauge bare Neotech in Teflon tube and the bare wire in teflon tube performed better

From what I have read, the Cardas wire is stranded

• I have tried stranded Neotech wire and compared it to solid Neotech wire, both with Teflon insulation
• The bare wire provided the better performance

From what I have been able to discover...

• electrons generally like to stay within a strand of wire, but will "jump" between strands under certain conditions
• jumping strands takes more energy which results in micro distortions
• these distortions manifest as noise in the signal which impacts sound quality

For those reasons I use only bare wires,

I have also tried 3 and 4 wires in Teflon tubes and found no advantage over 2 wires, which is why I use 2 wires for all signal and live conductors

Seems that using two wires with each wire is inside a teflon tube is the optimum soluton, but I have not been able to ascertain why 3 or 4 wires do not sound better

Hope that helps - Steve

@donnylovely - not to my knowledge.

Not sure there would be any advantage because...

• each twisted pair is a "ballanced architecture" i.e. 
  • one wire carries D+ve signal and one carries the  D-ve signal
  • there is no neutral wire to connect to the Helix coil
    •  CAT 7 does have a shield, but again, I do not think there is a drain pin on the plug for the shield to connect too,
    • so it is only a floating shield (i.e. not grounded)
    • whereas a USB cable does have a neutral pin on the plug, so the helix coil attaches to that

The wire quality in a good ethernet cable and the Ethernet architecture is capable of carrying todays fastest LAN traffic without losses, so I'm ont sure there is a need for a Helix version

Hoper that helps - Steve

@lemonhaze - I think you will be OK with the thinner wire

• assuming you are building the signal conductor using 2 x 22 gauge with each wire inside it’s own Teflon tube ?
• The 18 gauge neutral should also be OK with the 2 x 22 gauge signal conductor

RE: analytical sound

• If this is your first Helix Interconnect it will prpobably sound quite different from anything else you have tried and it will require about 200-300 hours break in before sounding it’s best
• you will hear more details, dynamics and clarity with the silver wire, but I’m not sure if I would consider this "analytical"
• small sounds like the reverberations of the venue stand out more
• details are "crisper"
• tsome people prefer the more mellow sound of duelund wire
• I’ve found that using UP-OCC copper for the neutral conductor of the speaker wire proved to be more analitical, so I went back to silver plated milspec for the neutral.
• Perhaps using milspec on the neutral of the interconnect might curb this problem ?
• I found using the silver wire with copper neutral resulted in what I thought was a more complete representation of the music across the audio spectrum.
• I think it’s one of those things you have to try in your system first

Hope that helps - Steve

@lemonhaze - The Furutech Alpha wire was one of the first wires I used as a Helix PC, because I had used the Furutech bulk cable for some earlier PC’s.

Having said that it was tragic to butcher such a great bulk cable, just for the conductors 😐

Whilst it is a pretty good wire to start with it’s main drawerbacks are

1. it is stranded, which is far less capable than solid wired, but more flexible
2. it is plated, which I have found to be less capable than unplated wires
3. the alpha copper is not as fast (i.e. dynamic) as UP-OCC copper

But it is a very good wire, compared to OFC copper used in many cables, and a great wire to start with

Good luck with your builds

@lemonhaze - CCC copper is  preferred by some to OCC copper - I believe there is very little between them, so this wire should work well.

The dielectric constant of the Polyethylene insulation is comparable to Teflon

Keep us posted as to how they work out

Regards - Steve

@tecknik (Steve) - glad to hear the Helix Power cable is proving to be beneficial.

You may hear some degraded quality around the 20 hour mark, but then it gets much better by around 50-60 hours

For my source components (a Bluesound Node 2i and a Simmaudio Moon LP5.3 RS phono stage) I now use a 1 meter PC with 2 x 18 gauge bare UP-OCC solid silver in Teflon tubes for the Live and 1 x 14 gauge solid neotech UP-OCC with Teflon insulation for the neutral.

It proved to be most beneficial and within my budget, but I use 2 x 14 gauge OCC copper (Live conductors) for the PC's on the amp, the Power distribution box and the 11 ft Extension cable to the distribution box.

Thanks for the update on the DC cables as well...

• I no longer have any components that use DC power, so I am unable to try the Helix for that specific application

Please post again if the cables shows any further improvement

Cheers - Steve

@tecknik - see below

For the live wire you’re stating live wire 2 x 14 solid and neutral wire 1 x 12 stranded. Why not 2 x 14 solid and 4 x the length rather then 2.5 don’t you want more coverage of the live wire. Shouldn’t live and neutral wires be the same size 2 x 14 yields a 11 g. Vs 1 x 12 g. 

There are many "permutations" that you can use

• my preferred wires are
  • 2 x 14 gauge for the live and
  • 1 x 10 gauge stranded silver plated mil-spec for the neutral
• I did try 2 x 14 gauge OCC solid wires for the neutral but it sounded way too analytical and harsh - they lost their musicality
• Live and neutral wires do not have to be the same size, but the neutral does have to be larger than the signal wires
  • so 2 x 16 gauge for the live and 1 x 12 gauge for the neutral - or
  • 2 x 14 guage live and 2 x 12 gauge for the neutral

As for coverage - these are NOT screened cables

• the Helix acts like a faraday cage, It disrupts the impact of airborn noise
• the amplitude of airborn noise is very small,
  • i.e. in comparison to the signal in the speaker wires,
  • so their impact is negligeable
  • But in a phono cable, any noise will be amplified over 100 times - a much greater impact to overall sound

I have not tried low mass spades

• with the KLE Innovations spades you get almost 1 sq cm of contact area 
• the contact area of spades tend to be a lot less

Can I cover the speaker cables in a designer sheath to look more professional or does this affect the sound quality.

Yes you can cover them - it will NOT impact sound quality

Regards - Steve

@donnylovely - Glad you are enjoying the Helix Speaker Cables

RE:...

I think I need to move my speakers to get the bass back in the new sound stage.

I know what you mean - I had a similar experience.

HOWEVER - before you go around moving your speakers too much, I would recommend playing a wide variety of music to see if the bass has infact diminihsed

• we get conditioned to certain levels of different frequencies, bass being the most noticeable
• when we change cables and components we attribute the new sound to that change - but could it be the new sound is just how the track was recorded?
• I have a few audition tracks, many of which which I first thought sounded a little too different, so I listened to several other tracks and found that the bass was not lacking, it was just never too prominent on those audition tracks - it was my old configuration that was in fact enhancing(colouring) the level of the bass

Also, give the cables about 200 hours break in before making any other changes.

Nice to hear you plan on making the other Helix Cables - I posted very early on in this thread, the more helix cables you introduce into your system the better it sounds 😀

You might just find that the bass returns when you install the "Coax’ cable 😎

Once you have the cables sorted, then try moving the speakers

Regards - Steve

Oooops - in my post above I wrote

with the KLE Innovations spades you get almost 1 sq cm of contact area

That should have been...

with the KLE Innovations BANANAS you get almost 1 sq cm of contact area

Apologies - Steve 😏

@lemonhaze - glad you finally had a positive experience with the Helix 🖕

WRT:

I now have about 40hrs play time and yesterday I found a little of the magic missing.

That will correct itself at about the 60 hour mark.

But... they keep getting better until around 200-300 hour mark, where they finally settle down.

If you have to remove them for any reason you may notice it takes 10-20 hours for the cables to reseat, before they sound their best again.

Keep the thread posted with the results of your upcoming solid silver IC’s

• Is it OCC or CCC silver?
  • if YES - you should notice better dynamics, details and an even more spacious image.
  • if NO - you might find it a little less exciting

Welcome to the Helix!

Regards - Steve

@toolbox149 - I only ever use Solid silver for the Signal wires, because as you said, it becomes very expensive if using solid silver for the Helix as well.

My apologies if I did not really make that point clear in previous posts

RE:

What do you think of making making interconnects with two OOC5N solid silver, bare wires for the live side, with a OOC 6N PTFE solid copper wire for the neutral?

Perfect! - also I DO NOT use the "AIR" adaption for the neutral - I just use OCC wire with Teflon insulaton.

I did try using the air adaption, but it made no difference to sound quality

Regards - Steve

@tecknik - apologies for the delay in answering the following

Williewonka@ what’s the influence of sound by the twisted neutral and ground”does a tighter twist over the live wires increase focus, air or timber of the ac cable.Williewonka@ what’s the influence of sound by the twisted neutral and ground”does a tighter twist over the live wires increase focus, air or timber of the ac cable.

I have not observed any changes in perofrmance when altering the diameter of the helix coil.

I intially believed there may be some benefit to having a larger coil, especially WRT speaker cables, which carry a higher voltage than interconencts, but subsequent work with power cables proved this supposition to be incorrect.

I do still believe that increasing the ratio of the Helix neutral to the signal wire, i.e. resulting is more turns, on those cables used between the turntable and the phono stage, could help reduce the amount of noise present on SOME OLDER systems.

• But I have learned there are many systems that experience no noise at all using the more conventional 3:1 ratio.

Hope than answers your question

Regards - Steve

@pindac - apologies in the delay of my reply.

Regarding...

The Power Amp’ EE has asked for all devices to be in use, to be made available for the final testing to take place, as well as be supplied XLR Cables that can have a Earth Shield detached at One Connector.

The query is, does the Helix Design lend itself to this request from the EE.

I was not quite onboard with the EE’s inquiry, when questioning me about the Cables to be built, I am interested in meeting the request from the EE, and to have a Cable available with this as a option, which will be able to have a shield detached.

Unfortunately my practical experience is limited to single ended designs, because I have no components that share the balanced XLR architecture.

However I have some limited experience with XLR connectors and cables.

What the EE appears to be referring to is a floating shield approach.

For this to be effective there must be at least two llayers of seperate shielding

• Where the inner layer of shield is connected to the ground pin of the XLR plugs at both ends
• and only one end of the outer layer of shielding is connceted to the ground pind of the connector,
• and the other end is not connected.
• the thought is any airborn RFI is wicked away to the ground of the component where the shield is connected
• this supposedly prevents the noise from entering the signal path and being amplified by the following "stages" of amplification
• the connected plug must always be inserted into the "Source" component

The main issue these days is that many source components are of an insulated design (i.e. they have a two pin plug, so they are NOT grounded, which means this approach will be of little use because the noise is not wicked away.

With the design of the Helix, the helix coil "interupts" any external RFI

• preventing noise from entering the signal wires, much like a faraday cage
  • making a seperate shield unessesary.
• the Helix even works with connecting between a turntable and a phono stage on many systems
  • but I am aware of a couple of systems where noise was still an issue for some reason
  • these had to have a heavily shielded convetional cable

This link may help your understanding of where the "EE" is coming from 

XLR Conections

Hope that helps - Steve

@tecknik - I've found shileding on cables impacts the openess, so I never use it.

Also the Helix coil acts like a faraday cage, which makes the need for a shield redundant.

I've clenched a Helix power cable next to a Helix interconnect in my fist with the volume at full volume (no music playing) and the resulting hum was barely audible

I did have one instance where a friends very old tube system created a hum with a Helix Interconenct connecting the turntable to the amp's internal phono stage. So he had to use a conventional shieided cables for that duty..

But I have also had reports from many others that there was no hum present in that situation on their more modern systems.

Personally, I have never had a hum issue due to the helix interconnects, so I have never pursued using a screen on them

Hope that helps - Steve

@lemonhaze - I would NOT recomemnd mixing copper and silver wires for a single signal conductor - the speed of transmission of the two metals is different and the resolution/clarity will suffer

Adding the 20 gauge Ag to the 2 x 24 Ag wires is a much better idea provided the quality of silver of the three wires is identical

Regards - Steve

@lemonhaze - having a slightly smaller neutral will not impact performance singificantly.

You could add a second 18 gauge Neutral which would make it larger than the revised signal conductor, but I would wait until you’ve listened to it and then if you feel there is some shorcomings then perhaps tackcle a second neutral OR even replace it with a 16 gauge neutral

I might opt for a 16 gauge neutral, as it might provide a slight advantage over a 2 x 18 gauge neutral.

I tried a dual wire neutral and for me it did not provide enough of an advantage considering the addition effort it took to build. But others swear by the dual neutral build.

My build was using bare wire inside teflon tube for the neutral, while it is a very nice cable

• I did not find using a dual neutral was significantly better
• I did not find using bare wire inside a teflon tube to provide any noticeable benefit
• My other two cables use 16 guage wire with Teflon insulation

WRT the bare 14 gauge wire - I guess you would have to buy wire with teflon insulation and remvove the insulation. I did this before I found the bare wire

I think there is a version that has PVC insulation which is more affordable

Hope that helps

@tecknik - RE:

I believe you mentioned the Teflon tube to be 25-30% larger than the bare wire inside it. what effects does a larger Teflon tube have on the sound.

I found that 25-30% was  suitable value because

• a smaller size made fabrication more difficult
  • e.g. for speaker calbes it became more difficult to insert the a 10 ft length of wire into the teflon tube if it were smaller that 25-30% lager than the wire
• A larger size might collapse around the wire with frequent handling or when using tight bends at the back of a rack

Hope that helps - Steve

@norco74 - nevr tried it, but I would think that the Helix would be an improvement over a more conventiona speaker cable because it does not colour the sound

• but it really depends on your hearing. I play bass guitar so my ears are accustomed to the lower frequncies and I like the bass details the Helix provides.

So regardless of whether you use the speaker terminals or the line input, you need a cable that can deliver an uncoloured signal

It would be cheaper to use a good line input cable, as opposed to the heavier wire used in the speaker cable, but that is only if the main amp and the sub supports a bass line ibput/ouput jack

Hope that helps - Steve

@lemonhaze - good stuff indeed 👍

Glad is oanned out

Regards - Steve

@camrector very glad to hear you are liking the Helix AIR cables 😀

Sorry to hear that you are encounting issues with sourcing the OCC wire.

Personally I use any f the folowing companies

• parts connecxion bare OCC copper and OCC siver wire
• neotech OCC copper wire from a couple of different sources - but it must state that it is OCC 
  • Sonic Craft
  • HiFi Collective
• VH Audio OCC copper and silver aire with Airlok insulation

I have compared the wire from all of the companies above to the more affordable OFC wire and can confirm that the wire exhibits the faster dynamic perofrmance that OCC wire provides.

Here is a link to the Parts connexion wires threy currently have

• Parts Connexion Bare wire

Unfortunately, they do not curently stock 12, 14, 16 gague sizes, but that can change

Other sources, e.g. ebay, alibaba etc.. I do not trust.

When investing in OCC wire I would rather pay a premium from a "trusted source" rather than gamble on pay a little less from an ebay merchant that may less scrupulous .

The Helix AIR geometry will perform extremely well using OFC copper in terms of noise floor and clarity, but it wil lack in terms of details and dyanmic performance compared to the same cables that employs OCC wire.

For your speaker cables you might want to try the following

• for the signal wire: 2 x 14 gauge bare OCC wire inside teflon tubes
  • each wire is inside its own teflon tube
  • basically the AIR geometry
  • use a tighter twist - one twist every inch
• for the neutral wire: use the same wire gauge/geometry
  • but twist the wires in the opposite direction
• insert each assembled conductor in its own cotton sleeve
• insert the two conductors in an expandable sleeve to keep things tidy

This will ensure the conductors will perform welll in a balanced scenario

Regards - Steve

@tecknik , interesting post.

I tried 4 wires for the live  and found it did not improve things over the two wire version.

Can you post pictures of the cables and construction techniques on your system page

Cheers, steve

@tecknik - I have great repsect for the Nordost approach, since they were one brand the started me down this path.

At this point in time the formulas I have posted work well for me and I like to keep things simple so that other can try them without getting too complicated to build

But one of the main reasons for making the Helix design available to everyone is to generate interest in their approach so that others like yourself can apply your own addaptions to the design.

Good luck with your upcoming speaker cables, it will be interesting to hear your feedback on their sound

FYI - I did try using OCC copper for both live and neutral on a pair of speaker cables, but I found them to be extremely analytical and detailed, so I reverted back to the 10 guage Mil-spec for the neutral, which seemed to create a more musical result

Regards - Steve

@camrector - no need for the Teflon tube - it would make the cables very stiff

It is very easy to insert the finished cable into an expandable sleeve and it will not degrade performance at all.

The cables on the web site are without sleeve so people can see how they are made

I have tried both the plain nylon expandable sleeve and the more elaborate patterned sleeve.

I will caution that on the interconnects you will probably not be able to get the sleeve inside the KLE RCA housing..

Hope that helps - Steve

@camrector - instead of teflon, use a nylon expandable sleeve, you wull not see the "lumps" and its' much more flexible

Regards - Steve

I haven't had cause to buy and bare OCC copper wire in a while and I'm now finding that it appears to be scarce.

Does anyone know a supplier for 12/14/16 gauge bare OCC solid copper wire?

Parts Connexion, my goto store,  only has 18 gauge oe smaller

Thanks in advance - Steve

@ketchup - I was looking for bare OCC wire

I can find Neotech insulated wires on Parts Connexion, but they used to have their own PC brand of bare wire in thicker gauges - They onlt have the thinner gauges right now

Cheers

@sasho - you can use whatever wire you like.

My preference is for the 10 gague silver plated milspec because I like the sound.

I have tried a few wires for the neutral and no other wire to date has provided the warmth and details.dynamics except - I did try UP-OCC copper, but it sounded far too analytical for my liking and it was very expensive

I also prefer having a larger gauge on the neutral, so,,,

• if you are using an 8 ohm speaker then use 2 x 16 awg for the signal and a 1 x 12 awg wire for the neutral or a 2 x 14 awg wire
• if you are using a 2-4 ohm speaker then use 2 x 14 awg for the signal and  a 1 x 10 gague wire for the neutral - or a 2 x 12 awg wire

You can use a stranded wire or a solid wire, but the stranded wire is ore flexible

Hope that helps - Steve

@camrector - thanks for all the info, very much appreciated and very useful going forward

cheers, Steve

@sasho  - re: Where from we can purchase teflon tube

I get mine from PArts Connecxion or Take Five Audio

The diameter of 12 AWG wire is 2.053 mm or 0.0808 inches

Add 25% and you are looking for an internal diameter of approxiately 2.5mm or 0.1 inches.

Unfortunately, I just checked and none of my original sources appear to sell this size any longer, so I would search the web for this size tubing

Regards - Steve

This method has lead me to thinking there is the potential to have a Hard Wire connection for the Pre’s Out, with a Helix Design Cable concealed within the Power Amp.

One person I know of replaced vavious wiring within his components with Helix Geometry wires (i.e. signal, hard wired and power wires) and reported exceptional improvements over the factory installed wiring.

I cannot confirm this because it’s a little too extreme for me and I like my warranties.

Regards - Steve

@lemonhaze - I really liked your post above :-)

I am surprised you got the response you did. I have tried similar comparisons, with mixed results, rangnig from..

1. making up all sorts of obscure advantages of the cables they sell - or...
2. I had two guys frantically trying different amps and speakers, amazed at the improvements they were hearing with the Helix

RE: the RCA plugs...

• sonic craft still has the Absolute Harmony and there are a few others
• I notice on the KLE site the PURE 22 and the PERFECT 22 - either of these would be excellent

What would the improvements be? - I would imagine details and dynamics

I have not tried them because I amhappy with what I have and the additional expence of replacing my Absolute Harmonywould not be worth the improvement

I'll get back to you on the power connectors - right now I have to run, sorry

@lemonhaze -Apologies for the fragmented response.

I still like the following silver plated copper mains connector products - in order of preference...

1. SonarQuest
2. Viborg
3. Vanguard - on Ebay

I also like the Carbon fiber look and they clamp better, but they tend to be expensive, so I found more affordable approach is to...

1. buy the cheapest plug from one the three brands mentions
2. then I also buy the cheapest Cabon fiber connector from the more obscure and affordable brands
3. Swap the Carbon fiber shell to the more expensive brand plugs

Last time I tried this I saved $70 on a mains pair., but from what I have just seen, the price of the carbon fiber versions have come down a lot, so it might not be cheeper

I use the unused plug/housing for various extension cords around the house or on power cables for my guitar gear.

I generally purchase from the Ebay merchant Enjoy HiFi because they are reliable, fast and for some reason they manage to bypass Canadian Customs

I’ve never had a problem swapping the housing, but some "named" brands may not fit - But If you purchase them from Ebay, they all tend to use the same design

Hope that helps - Steve

@pindac, what brands confirm to low eddy design RCA plugs?

Many Thanks

@lemonhaze - at no point have I experienced brightness or any other sound changes in my system with the Helix geometry/wires - I did experience more details and improved clarity and improved venue acoustics (i.e. hall reverberations) using silver plated connectors.

Perhaps the brightness that is frequently reported is due more to the actual cable geometry and insulations used rather than the actual connectors or wire/metals and plating.

Gold plating may impact the dyamics a little, but whether it would be noticeble depends on many other aspects of system confguration.

• quality of components
• other cables in use
• room dynamics
• speaker palcements
• etc...

I would stick with the silver plated copper connectors then you know going forward you are getting the best possible performance

Also don't be concerned with reported tarnishing, simply reseating a connector will reestablish perfect contact if any tarnishing does occur, but my SonarQuest plugs are now 4 years old and show no signs of tarnish as yet.

Hope that helps - Steve

@lewinskih01 - looks!

Perhaps similar plugs from companies like Furutech use real carbon fiber, bur the plugs I have used simply use a small carbon fiber looking band.

The benefit of these plugs is the housing has a more secure cable clamping system, and provides more room to work while making connections.

Regards, Steve 

@pindac - I took a look at the QED low eddy plug and it is very similar, in priciple, to the KLEI RCA...

• The neutral contact design is very small
• the signal contact design is tubular

So I believe a low mass style of RCA, like the KLEI RCA, would also benefit from a reduction in eddy anomolies.

The one benefit I found with the KLEI RCA is that an interconnect using them can be used as a digital link without having to worry about impedance matching.

• I do not know whether this is due to the impedance of the KLEI RCA or
• whether all low mass/eddy RCA’s can be used in this manner.
• But with more conventional RCA, it is often mentioned that there are :reflections within the cables if the impedance is not matched

Also, I have used DIY Helix cables using the KLE RCA, in lengths from 18" to 6ft, as a digital link and they outperformed my Van Del Hul impedance matched cables specifically designed as a digital cable.

• there was no difference in sound quality between the different length of DIY Helix cables
  • so the thoughts often shared on the web that Digital cables should be of a specific length does not seem to apply when using the KLEI RCA with the Helix DIY Geometry
• Unfortunately, I have no experience with Low Eddy RCA’s, so I cannot provide input as to whether they would perform as well as KLEI RCA’s when used for this purpose.

Any Thoughts? Steve

@abolive - I have use the 'V' shape, but I generally tend to solder onto the flat spot.

• for solid wire I place a small 90 degree turn at the end of the wire and insert that into the 'V'
  • I didn;t find it made any difference, from a sound persoective, but I suspect it is a weaker joint, as there is not as much solder in the joint
  • you can clip off any excess wire after soldering
• For stranded wire you can create a small :"V: shape" in the end of the wire and insert one :'V'  at 90 degrees into the other
  • it makes a better joint for stranded wire

Hope that helps - Steve

@lemonhaze - the 16 gauge signal would be fine, but I would double up on the neutral. The Helix works best if the neutral is a heavier gauge than the signal conductor.

or buy some 14 gauge from TFA

regards

@abolive, double signal wires for sure, but I found doubling the neutral on the single ended RCA cable only made a marginal improvement.

For me, the amount of improvement did not justify the additional effort, complexity and expence.

If you are intending to use a two wire signal conductor would make sure each signal wire is twisted in opposite directions and insert each conductor inside a cotton sleeve.

Is the budget allows use solid  occ silver

Regards, Steve