Driving Totem Forrests with 40W Tubes???

Taiquach - what amp have you been using to drive your Forests?

Mimberman, thanks for your response. Your suggestion makes a lot of sense and will probably be the way I go. What would be a minimum amount of tube power to drive the Forrests?

Thanks for the responses. I've contacted Totem for their recommendations as well.

I am going to give both the Hawk and the Forrest a listen next week. It's been awhile since I've heard either.

Al, I am currently listening to the Forests powered by the PrimaLuna Prologue Two, and am pleasantly surprised at how well the Two powers the Forests. Many say these need 200W+ to open up, but with tube power I think you can get by with less.

I heard the Forests powered by the Krell kav400xi at a local dealer and was impressed. I brought one home to hear the differences compared with the PrimaLuna. The Krell did open some things up in terms of transparency. The imaging was a little tighter and the tonal accuracy of instruments was more accurate. The upper registers of female vocals could become fatiguing after long listening sessions at high volumes.

Having said all that, the PrimaLuna was simply more emotionally involving IMO - and that is the most important thing to me. The bass was surprisingly more present with the PrimaLuna. The bass was so tight on the Krell that it was almost non-existent? There is some added 'bloom' to vocals on the PrimaLuna compared to the Krell, and in that I mean they seemed a little exaggerated in size, not in colorization. Female vocals are sublime!

The PrimaLuna was just easier to sit back and enjoy the music with. I found myself over analyzing the presentation with the Krell too often. The PrimaLuna was simply more enjoyable and sucked me into the music.

Hearing some of the benefits of added power with the Krell, a more powerful tube amplifier would probably only add more of a good thing. PrimaLuna is releasing monoblocks (rated at 60-70WPC?) in the near future and I think these would make a great pairing as well.

I did contact Totem, and they recommended the Audio Research vsi55. I also inquired about the BAT vk55 (as I am now a fan of the autobiasing feature) and Totem said that it should mate well. I could live happily ever after with the PrimaLuna Prologue Two, but I have to be honest that I am curious to see what a little more in terms of tube power will bring to the table. I am most looking forward to the Prologue monoblocks.

I now have a Simaudio i-5 in house as well to pair with the Totems and I must say I am pretty impressed with this pairing!

The Sim brings some added control while remaining 'warm' with an inviting presentation. There are also no signs of upper end shrillness that can/could cause fatigue as was present on the Krell with some material.

Grakesh, I really wouldn't have thought that the Sim could seriously having me considering replacing the PrimaLuna. I thought of it more as an experiment in curiousity as I had always heard the Sim/Totem synergy to be great.

As you know, the PrimaLuna was paired with my Arros in a much smaller space and the results were simply phenomenal! Never had an inkling to change anything. Although I loved the space and the music provided with that system, untimatley both my wife and I couldn't listen in that small room.

Ultimately, but HT and 2-channel merged, allowing extra funds to open up to upgrade! ;) The Arros, now in a room 4x+ the size of it's previous home still had the magic, but weren't full enough to flesh out the presentation in the way I would want. This led to the Forests.

I talked with Totem about the PrimaLuna/Forest pairing and they were skeptical of the 40W (even though tube watts). I was pleasantly surprised at how well the Prima handled the Forests, but was curious as to everyone suggesting 200W of SS power for them to really open up.

I brought home a Krell kav-400xi. I did hear the forest open up in terms of transparency, imaging and detail. My wife even said 'like a blanket coming off the speakers'. I chuckled, and she just looked at me odd - I had to reply to her that you are more of an audiophile than you think, but in our world it's called a 'veil'. She had never heard this phrase uttered before, as I don't really use it, but read it all the time. She highly underestimates her listening acuteness! Anyway, the problem I had with the Krell was a tinginess in the highs that could become fatiguing when listening for long periods at loud volumes.

The Sim bests the Prima in terms of transparency, bass control - I think it bests the Krell in this regard too, and imaging. You do give up a little of that 'tube magic', but the Sim has a very warm, inviting presentation that is in some ways reminiscent of tubes. Also, the Sim show no signs of tinginess in the highs at loud volumes. Very pleasant and easy to listen to.

I preferred the Prima to the Krell, because it was simply more musically involving. The Sim is just as musically involving while gaining a few notches in control, detail and transparency. I was up late last night comparing the two, and plan to again tomorrow. I will keep you posted on my final verdict.

Walkman, no problems here. I don't listen at insane levels, but I have had it pretty loud with no negative side effects that I can hear.

OK, so the winner (for me) is the Simaudio i-5 with the Forests.

Both sound great and the Prima is a little sweeter in the midrange and adds a nice juiciness to the female vocals that's hard to give up, but overall the Sim just offers a little more. A little more transparency, a little tighter imaging and focus and more accurate tonal representation. Many of the things that I found the Krell to add, but without the nasties in the highs - which to me are unforgivable.

The Sim actually attempts what seems to be some tube like qualities, but when pairing it head-to-head with the same thing, tubes do add a little more 'magic'. Although both sound great, the decision was pretty easy for me. The Sim just controls the Forests better.

While I prefer the Sim i-5, I still question if that could be the final pairing with the Forests. I think the 'perfect' pairing may lie along the lines of a PrimaLuna Prologue Three Preamp with a Simaudio i-3/5 power amp, or perhaps the BAT vk300? I think a hybrid system could be just the ticket for the Forests? The i-5 is nice, but I think a little more power could onyl go in a positive direction.

Beheme, that is a very interesting product, I never heard of ti before - must have skipped over the stereophile review back in January?

My combined HT is strickly 2-channel now, and I don't forsee adding anything else. Going back to 5.1 just doesn't appeal to me now, or as far as I can see anytime in the near future. I think with the Linar, I may be paying for more than what I need, but if I do find myself craving 5.1 again in the future I'll put it at the top of my list to audition. It sounds like a very interesting and great product!

It would be nice if they made a strickly 2-channel integrated at a lower price point!

Yeah, I heard the Simaudio Amber integrated driving Winds years back at my dealer and the combo was impressive. Never heard it on the Forests but I would love to hear it or get my hands on that amp. I've only seen one come up for sale here on the 'gon, but it was when I owned the Arros and it simply would have been overkill at that point.