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Dream speakers and amp for an 11x14 room?

Hi All,

I'm a first-time poster and hate to present an idiosyncratic problem, but I'm getting the impression that the devil is in the details when it comes to high-end audio, so here goes:

I've got an 11x14 living room that serves as a home theater, and currently have a great video projector that I'd like to mate with a top-notch two-channel set up (I've been persuaded to give up on the 5.1 surround idea). My dream is to have a system that's capable of everything - from running quick, delicate, joyful circles around Beethoven's middle quartets to disgorging "Led Zeppelin I" with a massive, terrifying soundstage.

I was initially hell-bent on floorstanding speakers - I've never shopped high-end audio until now, and remember the big floorstanders my father had back in the 80s, with 12-inch woofers powered by a big, late-70s solid-state Scott amp. The Gallo 3.1 were one idea, as well as the FJ (Blumenohofer) Oms. Both of those models attracted me partly because of their wide soundstage and sweet spot (the latter unfortunately lacking in a few other models that have attracted my interest, including the Devore 8s and 9s).

But while I've been impressed during a few recent auditions by the floorstanders, and hate the tiny little images thrown by most bookshelves, the more I read the more it seems that such bigger speakers may be a bad idea for the room in question - I don't have room to be placing speakers three feet away from the wall - two is even a stretch.

A couple of other key constraints: The speakers basically have to fit under the 6 1/2-foot-wide movie screen, whose bottom edge hangs 38 inches from the floor. That's because the screen pulls down alongside the left side of this "front" wall, while immediately to the right of the screen a bedroom door is cut into the wall.

It should be noted that this front wall is of a cheap, hollow construction - courtesy of an enterprising landlord who moved to convert my apartment into a two-bedroom - and I worry that will be a factor when it comes to bass. There's also another bedroom door - immediately to the right of and at a right angle to the first, so as to form a kind of 90-degree void to the right of where the right speaker would be placed.

Opposite this front wall, 14 feet away, is a double-door that opens into a kitchen that's about 10x11. Through all of this, the ceiling height is about 7 1/2 feet and the floors are hardwoods with a few oriental rugs available if necessary.

Now, as a stopgap, I've installed a cheap 5.1 surround system, with a right bookshelf and a center speaker under the movie screen, and a left bookshelf speaker sitting - yes, that's right - in the back corner of a bookshelf that's built into the left wall. This latter speaker seems to have trouble generating a lot of sound, given the few precious inches of space behind it. I've also got a powered subwoofer on the floor under the movie screen.

So given all that data, I guess the first key question is - are there bookshelf speakers, a center and a woofer that could take the places of the cheap ones and sing, despite the lack of space behind them? I really wouldn't want to place them, or any corresponding subwoofer, more than 6 inches to a foot away from the wall (or a few inches from the back corner of the bookshelf, in the case of the left side).

And the second question would be - provided I'm willing to move the easy chair that's in the left corner under the movie screen - is there a pair of floorstanders, preferably less than 36 inches high, much less 38, that could deliver what I'm looking for in terms of sound, given the fact that they'd basically need to be as close as 4 feet together, with one about two feet from the left side wall and the other with a couple of doorways off to its right and back right?

For those of you who have gotten this far and still have a clue as to what I'm getting at, I am both grateful and impressed. Please let me know what information I can provide to clarify the situation. I'm looking to pay up to $3000 or so for a used pair of speakers, probably the same for a used amp. Interested in everything from solid-state to SETs - but seems like I should concentrate on this speaker question first.

Thanks!
coverto

Showing 4 responses by goatwuss

goatwuss
877 posts
 
You are definitely going to want to go with a bookshelf and sub approach. Floorstanders will have major problems in the small room, and the sub gives you the ability to move it around the room, and place it where the bass sounds best.

I've tried to put too big a speaker in a room more than once, and it never works out. Instead, work with the limitations that you have instead of not accepting these. In your case, then means a sub + bookshelf approach.

The mark and daniels monitors look pretty interesting
goatwuss
877 posts
 
Hi Coverto,

Yes, stands are an absolute necessity for bookshelf speakers. You will need to set them up so that they are least 1 foot (preferably 2 or more) from all room boundaries if you would like to recreate the aspects of hi end sound, such as imaging, staging, etc. Also, the coupling of the speaker to a high quality stand that will properly drain the speakers vibrations is critical.

With a quality pair of standmounted speakers, setup properly with a good sub, you will get excellent punch, power, dynamics, etc. Bookshelf speakers run the gamut from punchy and dynamic, all the way to slow, veiled, and sloppy, just like floorstanders do. You can definitely get mind blowing from this type of a setup, and there are many audiophiles who actually prefer bookshelves + sub to floorstanders even in a large room. Smaller speakers image better than larger ones in general.

Why are you opposed to stands?
goatwuss
877 posts
 
Hi Coverto,

A well setup sub + bookshelf system can awe and inspire for sure. In a small room, it will actually do this even more than a bigger floorstander that is too big for the room, because you won't run into the problems (notably boomy bass peaks, and missing bass troughs) that you will get from putting too big a speaker in a room.

I understand your concern about 2 speakers + 1 sub, but bass below 80hz is actually non directional, so as long as you set the crossover low enough, you can place the sub anywhere, and it will sound like the bass is coming from the speakers!

I want to be clear that I am not saying there is no way any floorstander can work in your room... but the average floorstander (especially if it has rear ports) will be a problem. I've never heard an Ohm speaker, but others on this thread seem to think it may work in a small room.

Regarding the stands, you are right that it basically takes up the footprint of a floorstander, but the point is that they enable you to use an appropriately sized speaker for the room, giving you overall better sound than the floorstander. You can get a good pair of stands for around $200, so when combined with the price of the speakers (assuming $2k or so speakers) would only be an additional 10%.

I think your best bet is getting to a couple of local hifi shops and hearing what a good pair of bookshelf speakers can do. It will only take 1 good demo to prove to you how capable they can be ( :

FYI - I own Gallo 3.1s. Great speaker, and they COULD work in your room, but again the problem is you don't have flexibility with placement for your bass, and will result in a rollercoaster bass response most likely. Being able to move the sub around lets you address this, and get an overall smoother and better sound in a small room.
goatwuss
877 posts
 
The X-static won't work well in this sized room - it needs a good amount of breathing room.

It is a shame that your monitor auditions did not include a sub being hooked up! Maybe you could try again, this time with a sub, to see how it goes?

The Usher Be-718 that knownothing recommended is one to seek out an audition for.

The Dynaudios in particular need a SS amp with the ability to drive some current, preferably doubling the WPC when the impedance drops to 4 ohms. The only problem is they require a bit of current running through them to really open up, which your sized room won't really allow. I owned Contour S1.4s for a few years, and always struggled with this. In a big enough room, they are mind-blowing with a Rel sub.
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