Hi All,
Just a quick note to say thanks for these great responses! I'm going to study each and every suggestion tonight after work - at first glance they all sound really interesting.
Meanwhile, I figured I'd try to condense and refine my questions for the sake of those who couldn't quite make the slog through that first monster post - my major concerns are that I'd need to basically back any floorstanders up to the front wall - a foot away from it at the most - and that the speakers realistically would only be about four to five feet apart. The left speaker would be about two feet from the side wall, with the end of a couch about three feet in front of it along that side wall, whereas the right speaker would have a pair of doorways immediately to its right and back right, forming a kind of 90-degree void opening into two other rooms that I'm concerned would be a weird factor, with open and shut doors changing the acoustics.
The larger question all of this raises for me is - as much as I hate the idea, should I consider a really nice pair of bookshelves, possibly paired with a subwoofer? It would be more convenient furniture-wise, although that's a secondary consideration. If I went with bookshelves, I'd probably need some that could be placed into corners with very little room behind them - a couple of inches maybe - and which don't require stands, which I hate. I haven't come across any high-quality options that would fit that bill at about $3000 used, and I suspect you're going to tell me that no such set up could compete with some of these floorstanders soundwise, even in my small, odd room?
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Goatwuss - after getting all fired up reading through the thread on the Ohm Micro Talls, the idea that only bookshelves will work with my room is an idea I hate to face!
On monitor/bookshelves, I guess my main concern is - will I require stands to get a sound that's comparable to something like what floorstanders like the Ohm Micro Talls would deliver? Because for me stands are out. Apart from the worry that floorstanders wouldn't work in my room, the only point of having bookshelves would be their easy placement on an actual bookshelf.
Right now I've got a cheap 5.1 surround system with the two fronts placed conveniently, but haphazardly, with one in the back corner of a bookshelf nearly a foot higher than the level of the other, which is on a table next to the center. Would I be assuming correctly that this is totally unacceptable if I'm serious about sound?
Also, I do watch a lot of movies. While it sounds like Gallo 3.1s or Ohm Micro Talls would be great for that, I wonder whether I'd be disappointed by the punch, power, etc. that's going to be delivered by a pair of monitors versus the two fronts plus a center that I've got now? If I go the monitor route, would it make sense to just go 5.1 surround? At that point, it seems like I'm spending as much as I would have on a great stereo setup.
I don't want to sound like I'm set against bookshelves - quite the contrary and I'd be thrilled if somebody told me all these worries are unfounded. But at the end of the day, I guess I wonder how much of a quantum leap I can expect - how much of a mind-blowing experience - I can expect from a better pair of bookshelves from the setup I've got now if I stick with the odd placement strategy I'm using now. |
Thanks All, some more great food for thought here.
I'm definitely intrigued by the Ohm MWTs at this point. But there's another factor that I guess I've tried to ignore up to now, but which is potentially significant: there's a chair in the left corner of that front wall that might have to go if I went with floorstanders. It's a pretty unobtrusive chair - one of those that's basically some thinnish cushions stuck to a curved frame so there's no bulk to it - but I wonder if it'd be possible to enjoy sitting in that chair with an omnidirectional Ohm WMT blaring two feet away from your head!
In that regard, would it be easier to have something like a Totem Forest firing straight ahead, past the person who's sitting in that chair? Again, I'm considering removing that chair altogether but hate to do so. At the same time, I don't want to end up with a pair of speakers that have the tiny sweet spot that Totems get slapped for - I need it to sound good all around the room - or at least most of it.
So that does have me seriously contemplating the monitor option - with stands - for the first time... I mean, it seems like having one of those mounted next to my head, firing past me while I sit in that chair, might be a more workable idea than the Ohms or Gallo 3.1s, and possibly even something like Totems or Devore Gibbon 8s?
Goatwuss, to answer your question, I've always hated the idea of stands because they're expensive and take up just as much floorspace as a floorstander - seems like a poor value, I've always thought. On the other hand, maybe they'd be a more flexible option in my room with a greater chance of success than a floorstander? |
I guess I should add that another reason I've never seriously contemplated monitors on stands is that the setup never struck me as ideal soundwise - for example the idea of two monitors sharing a single subwoofer sounds like a muddled compromise by definition. Maybe it's simply because I haven't really scrutinized reviews on monitors, but I just haven't noticed people gushing fanatically about a pair of monitors the way they do about Ohm MWTs, Gallo 3.1s, etc.
My point is, I put "Dream Speakers" in the subject line for a reason - I really do want the sound of this system to awe and inspire. If that can be done with monitors, that's great. Otherwise, if you guys think floorstanders do indeed sound difficult given my chair-in-the-corner problem, I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't wait on buying a system altogehter until I move into a different apartment next spring... |
Thanks Mapman - looks like you responded while I was typing that last post... I think you may have inspired me to give John at Ohm a call and see what he says... but still very curious to hear from any monitor fanatics, of course... |
And BTW - I have looked into all of the monitor suggestions thus far - the Triangle Titus, the Sierra 1s, the Mark and Daniels - and some of the reviews sound great. But the reviews and testimony in general does seem a little thin versus some of the floorstanders out there that seem to have these vibrant cult followings... |
Hey Mapman - looks like we were typing at the same time again - you actually bring up the other key concern I have about the Ohm MWTs... I've read concerns about the phasing, as well as the image size being oddly gargantuan... when you say they may take some getting used to, what are you referring to? |
Thanks Goatwuss - I have actually auditioned a number of monitors, and was distinctly underwhelmed. But admittetdly, none of these were auditioned in conjunction with a subwoofer - kind of amazing in retrospect that the dealers didn't suggest that, because the main impression I had was that when I got home I thought the cheap pair of Infinity fronts paired with a cheap Sony subwoofer sounded much better overall than what I'd heard, which included Dynaudio 140s, B&Ws, Linns, etc...
Mapman - what you're saying makes me think it'd be great to audition a pair of these before buying, but is that possible? |
On the subject of the omni-directional sound - I did get a chance last week to audition some Gallo 3.1s, and it seemed to me that the sound of guitars and drums and such was very "up close" but nevertheless there was stereo imaging - guitar on one side, drums on the other, that kind of thing. So it wasn't necessarily a case of a singer's mouth being 10 feet wide, as one poster in another forum described it, but those drums and guitars and vocalists did seem pleasantly, satisfyingly big from where I was sitting. Without trying to lead the witness too much, is that the kind of thing I could expect from the Ohms?
Moreover - is there a witness out there who has heared both the Ohm MWTs and the Gallo 3.1s who could give a more detailed comparison? |
So, given that the Gallo 3.1s are more wide than omni directional like the OHM, is the image thrown by the OHM indeed larger than the Gallo 3.1 - the proverbial 10-foot-wide singer's mouth? When I auditioned the Gallos, I was sitting about eight feet back and the speakers were probably 8 feet apart. In retrospect, it was a slightly odd experience of being far away yet extremely close - in other words a large, localized image - a big guitar, maybe 10 feet long, being plucked in the vicinity of the right speaker, and a big snare drum, maybe two or three feet across, being brushed in the vicinity of the left speaker. Does that coincide with your recollection of the Gallos, and how would it compare with the imaging of the Ohms? |
Hmmm. In light of the big-screen TV analogy, I guess that's why these Ohms are reputed to require high-quality amplification... anybody have any thoughts on an ideal amplifier for these things? Are there amplifiers that are particularly well-suited to omnidirectionals? Would it be overkill or ideal to pair them with a McIntosh MA6600 for example? |
Guys - sorry I've been out of pocket the past day - was scrambling to head off for vacation and now I'm on it! Knownothing - thanks for all those great monitor suggestions - you've given me hours of material to investigate and look forward to reporting back. I'll be out of pocket for the next 8 days, periodically checking in, but appreciate all the continued input from you guys.
It's funny what you say about the Dynaudios needing big ss amps, because a dealer hooked some of those up to a 30-watt integrated Leben tube amp and I thought they sounded pretty darn good, even though they obviously needed a sub.
DD1 - I had actually begun my journey a couple months back with the idea of the Heresys, but got a little concerned about the reported lack of bass - wondering if that would be a problem in a smaller room. At this point though, I'm thinking they're probably too bulky for the furniture situaiton I'm dealing with, so I either need to think skinny towers or monitors...
On the amp side, do you folks think it would be overkill to splurge on something like a McIntosh 6900 or a Jeff Rowland Concerto to drive a setup for a smaller room? What about a Krell 400xi or a Creek Destiny? |
Knownothing - "You may be better off from a sound quality standpoint to pay for more expensive internal parts in a lower output amp." This is exactly what I'd been thinking and I took a look at the links you posted. You mention Ayre and Naim, but it's not my understanding that those brands have more expensive internal parts than McIntosh, or some of the other big integrateds? |
All - just an update that I've done some research in the past couple of weeks, and the Ohms are the front runner at this point (just can't get excited about monitors, for some reason). I talked to John Strobheen who actually recommended that I go with the 1000s instead of the Micro Talls, which he said would give me an extra octave or so of bass to play with.
John mentioned in particular that the two doors in my room that would open to the back and side of the left speaker could make the bass sound thin on that side if left ajar, which frankly makes me wonder whether I shouldn't still be considering some more traditional front firers?
Also, given that the 1000s are bringing me up to the $2000 level, it has me wondering whether there wouldn't be superior alternatives on the used market in that price neighborhood. Again, one key requirement is that they be no more than 38 inches tall (and 36 or even 34 would be much, much better...)
The thing is, I do really like the idea of the huge, open airy soundstage supposedly thrown by the Ohms, and not having to worry about a tiny sweet spot in the middle of the room where nobody will be sitting. I had a chance to audition some Gallo 3.1 semi-omnidirectionals recently and was struck how boxed-in and congested other speakers, including Dalis, Viennas, B&Ws and even Meridians sounded by comparison.
(Yes, I'm still sort of interested in the Gallo 3.1s, although I didn't like the fact that the whole picture changed dramatically when you stood up from your chair, and I've been warned to worry about how the side-firing woofers would fare in my smallish room.)
I've heard that Green Mountains might fit the bill - that they are relatively easy to place (another key need), although they would obviously take me closer to the $3000 level used.
One last key point in favor of the Ohms is that they, like Green Mountains, would apparently have good synergy with Blue Circle, which is the front runner for the integrated amp I'm eyeing and which uses the Walsh drivers for its own Penny speakers.
Thanks again for all the help, it is much appreciated! |
Duke - thanks very much for the input. If I understand your post correctly, you're essentially raising a question about sound bouncing off walls that would be close to the Ohms. One mitigating factor, I'm told, is that the Ohms aren't pure omnis, with front-facing tweeters and a wide-dispersion midrange cone that omits firing toward the back wall. I spoke to John Strobheen at Ohm who told me he figured between a foot and 18 inches from the wall would work fine for placement. I can tell you that the room is 11x14, opening into a kitchen at the opposite wall via double doors, and that there are doorways opening to the back-right and right of the right-hand speaker.
Too bad, your speakers look intriguing but I need a model that's less than 36 inches high! |
All - I just wanted to say thanks a bunch for all your help on this. Tentatively, I've decided to go with a pair of Ohm 1000s. Pretty impressive, as I had not even been considering Ohms before I started this thread! I think it's also impressive because I originally had been determined to buy a pair of used speakers in pursuit of more value and less risk in the event they don't work out.
Still tentative because of those two factors, actually. The other reason I'm tentative is that I still need to decide on an amp. Will be posting that thread directly...
Thanks! |
