Down graded, with fantastic results


I sold some gear recently to raise some cash. I sold a pair of Cary/AES Six Pacs mono amps, a Cary/AES DJH preamp and a pair of B&W 703 speakers. I purchased a pair of Tyler Acoustic Ref. monitors and a Jolida 302b integrated amp to go along with my Jolida CD player, all wired with Signal cable speakers. My wife does not usually comment on the "sound" of our system, but last night when the Jolida amp finally arrived, she loved the sound of it. I must admit, it does sound fantastic! And at a fraction of the cost of my former gear! $2,050 is the cost of the new stuff. $6,200 was the cost of the AES and B&W gear.
gretsch6120

Showing 4 responses by bombaywalla

I do agree that it does not take much of a cash outlay to get good & even very good sound in the home environment. The sound with relatively inexpensive equipment is, in general, a bigger compromise than some well-designed hi-end gear but the compromises are quite livable. I've often seen people happier w/ smaller systems (what they call a down-grade) than they were w/ their prev hi-(sp)end gear. Is it possible that these people, who down-graded, are listening to music now rather than the sound of their 2-ch? They seem to forget about the electronics & the speakers & seem to be enjoying the music emanating from the system as a whole. This seems to be a major reason in my mind for a happier audio-enthusiast who "down-graded". Actually, in my mind, he/she "upgraded"!!

I have a JoLida 502A that is heavily modified so I can speak a bit about the JoLida sound I get from this amp. it just might be similar to the 302B. Yes, I know that the 502A uses 6550/KT88 while the 302B uses EL34s. So, I'm not comparing tube sounds.
Both the 502A & 302B use plenty (atleast in my mind!) of GLOBAL negative feedback! I've got the 502A sch & it's very easy to see this. The 502A measures very nicely on the bench but the global -ve feedback has an effect on the overall sound: dark & broody & closed-in. The soundstage is also closed-in/2-D. The sound is limited to the width of the speaker separation. Playing w/ the speaker position did not improve the sound by too much. After the mods were made, the sound opened up but nothing like it should be for an amp of such a well-known topology that could exist w/o any global feedback. One has to to hear another amp that does not have any global negative feedback to realize what I'm saying. To this effect I wish that you has retained the AES Sixpacs. They have a feedback on/off switch. Perhaps you played w/ this switch while you owned the Sixpacs? If you did, could you tell the difference in sound?
IMHO, getting rid of Sixpacs was a big mistake. It easily bests the 302B in every respect.
Anyway, I've lived w/ my JoLida since Jan 2005 & I gained this insight over a period of time. The JoLida amps are not the best implementation of this well-known amp topology. I also feel that paying so much for the mods to some 3rd party company is throwing good money after bad - it's a total waste knowing the way JoLida implemented the design. For this same amount of money (for a brand new amp) my gut feeling is that one can do better - getting a used Pathos or a used Viva or a new Primaluna or a Sugden or an Audio Refinement represents a much better choice. As a used unit, however, the JoLida is excellent.
FWIW. IMHO. YMMV.
Marco,
Re. your comments about trading up from a Honda Accord to a Mercedes Benz - that's *NOT* what I wrote (if you'd care to read my orig post again). I was talking about taking the same amount of money & buying a better implemented amp. So, I was talking about a lateral move. If you want to use an auto simile then maybe Honda Accord to Toyota Camry or Nissan Altima?
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Gretsch6120,
"Global negative feedback?! I'm talking about listening to music."
Now, you have me stumped & speech-less!!! (err...word-less)
Marco,
I must answer your post w/ some caution because there are aspects of which I agree with & yet disagree w/ some aspects as they apply to audio.

"My point was that you can sit around looking at all the "faults" of what you have in life, or what you have chosen, OR you can accept and enjoy what you have....."
yes, I agree w/ this strategy, in general. It does make life more enjoyable to live.

"Why would you want to point out what is 'half-empty' in someone elses glass, rather than help them celebrate the stuff that fills their glass?!?"
Well, now that I agreed to your 1st statement above, why would I not agree to this statement?
Isn't the whole point of being on an audio forum to improve oneself as audiophile in terms of improving one's ability to discriminate correct sound from just plain, old sound? If that's not the case, why aren't all of us buying Bose, JVC, Hitachi or some other mass-fi electronics & reveling in the fact that it sounds pretty darned good? You might come back & tell me that you KNOW that it doesn't sound that good? Well, how did you learn that? By somebody else helping you to celebrate your purchase of some mass-fi electronics?
When & if you do this, Marco, you are doing your fellow audiophile the biggest dis-favour! You are telling him/her that it's OK to be mediocre & to like 2nd-rate sound & to never uplift himself/herself to a higher plain to sonics.
I can bet that you have learnt a lot hanging out on Audiogon thru the collective experiences of the other members. I'm sure that has helped you grow as an audiophile. I can confirm this for myself - I have many members here to thank for my growth as an audiophile. If they hadn't kicked me when I made a mistake or concluded incorrectly, I would have still reveled in some mass-fi gear!
That was my point to Gretsch6120 in my orig post - the underlying message to him was to understand what the JoLida represents in terms of its sonics. How various design choices made by the manuf affect sound. And, if he ever wanted to get better sonics, what to look-out for in his next purchase.
I really think that being on an audio forum is to make us all better audiophiles who understand better what makes our gear tick + how to get better sound from what we buy + provide feedback to manuf so that they manuf gear that best reproduces correct sound 'cuz they know that the buyer knows what correct sound is. It's a symbiotic relationship & we all grow. To let someone revel in 2nd-rate sound is "dumbing" him.
Perhaps you do not agree w/ this line of reasoning? So be it! Then we agree to disagree. We can have diff viewpoints & still be cordial to each other. I'm very much OK w/ that, Marco.
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Gretsch6120
"All I ment was I do not want to get into the analytical side of audio equipment,..."
Unfortunately, 2-ch audio (or any audio) is electronics. Choices made in how the electronics has a direct affect on your enjoyment or lack of. I feel that it's much better to understand what you have & enjoy it w/ better/complete knowledge of why the sound it is like it is rather than enjoying it in ignorance. Ignorance might be a bliss; but, ignorance IS ignorance.
Just because you delve into some of the analytical aspects does not mean that you cannot enjoy the music! Why are these 2 things mutually exclusive?
Remember, I NEVER said that you analyze the sound each time your system comes on! What I said was to understand why you get the sound that you get.
Ok, I think that I have said enough.

Music preferences - I like Jazz from the 1950-1990 era by the jazz greats. I also like classic rock, blues (acoustic & electric), some new age stuff, some flamenco.
Gretsch6120, Marco,
sorry guys I didn;t mean to do any bubble-bursting (but it looks like I might have!!); rather, I was trying to educate.
Looks like Marco knew all along [I figured he did. I know him a little bit by now! ;-)] but he wasn't going to give up so easily!
anyway, educating the listener from my experience was what I was after. i'll work on better delivery for the next time...