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Does size really matter? :-

I've seen stylus size discussed in regards to 78s and mono records, but never as it pertains to our good old stereo LPs. I was recently looking at cartridge specs, and was astonished by the difference in the size of the styli. Let's take, for example, 3 cartridges I'm considering:

Sumiko Blackbird Elliptical 0.3 x 0.7 mm

Dynavector 17D2MKll Karat Square .06 x .06 mm

Zyx Bloom Line Contact 6 x 35 um

Converting the first two to um from mm, we get this:

Sumiko 300 x 700

Dynavector 60 x 60

Zyx 6 x 35

This indicates the Sumiko is 50x wider and 20x longer than the Zyx! The Dynavector is between them. Even allowing for the different stylus profiles, this seems like an enormous difference in stylus size. Am I missing something?

I've read in other threads that the Zyx owners talk about the Zyx getting deeper into the groove, retrieving more info and, more importantly, contacting a section of the groove that, in the case of used records, previous styli haven't touched. Considering the above figures, these statements now make much more sense.

My big question is, why don't more manufacturers use the smaller styli? Are there advantages to larger styli that I'm missing? It doesn't seem like cost should be a factor, as the Zyx above is a US$490 cartridge. Do the smaller styli wear quicker? Easier to break? Harder to align?

Just wanting to get A'goner's thoughts. If there's a previous thread, please point me to it - I did a search, but didn't come up with anything relevant. Thanks.

David
armstrod

Showing 7 responses by armstrod

armstrod OP
602 posts
 
Nsgarch,

Occasionally my accounting education proves useful. :-)

Thanks for the info on different stylus profiles. I guess then the question is how comparable the stylus dimensions are when the styli have varying profiles. Dougdeacon has seen clear differences with his own (microscopically enhanced) eyes, so the absolute size difference is undeniable. How that translates at the point of groove contact carries far more variables.

Dougdeacon, I'm sure the stylus size and profile is part of what makes a Zyx different, and logic says a stylus that much smaller would be more difficult to manufacture. As I pointed out, though, Zyx seems to be using that same size stylus on the Bloom at $490, so it's clearly possible to do it on an affordable cartridge. Are there any other cartridges you know of, affordable or not, that use a stylus as small as the Zyx? I did a quick check through cartridgedb.com and didn't find anything even close.
armstrod OP
602 posts
 
Dougdeacon,

Maybe I lack imagination, but I'm having a hard time picturing the shape of the Zyx stylus you describe. Any chance you could upload the pictures your friend took of the Zyx and the others? It would be educational for all of us.

As to other manufacturers, you're correct that Lyra and VdH use styli similar in size to the Zyx, with the Lyra Dorian the least expensive at $750 USD. The Dynavectors claim a line contact stylus, but their quoted size is much larger that the Zyx, Lyra and VdH.

I have a feeling there's a Zyx Bloom in my future...
armstrod OP
602 posts
 
Well, Opalchip,

That certainly puts a different cast on things, doesn't it? So now the dimensions of the Sumiko, converted to um, are 7.5 x 17.5. That's quite a difference! It was the huge discrepancy that prompted my original question. So the Sumiko, at least, is a similar size to the Zyx.

I also checked the Denon 103, and it's listed on their Japanese Web site as 16.5 um round, also within the same size range. The Shelter 901 is specced at .3 x .7 MIL (they must know the difference!) so that makes it the same size as the Sumiko.

So now I'm starting to wonder. Dougdeacon saw clear differences, but could that be attributable more to the different profiles of the styli rather than their absolute size? Most here agree that tiny differences in any aspect of a vinyl setup (VTA, VTF, alignment method, antiskate, etc.) can make a big difference in sonics, and now it looks like styli are another area where the differences are small.

Sigh...vinyl just resists all our attempts to simplify, doesn't it?

:-)
armstrod OP
602 posts
 
Doug,

The pictures certainly dramatize the difference in styli - it's stunning. Are you sure all 4 were done at the same magnification? Based on the revised calculations, I wouldn't expect the visual differences to be so dramatic.

David
armstrod OP
602 posts
 
Doug, Raul,

I agree completely that many factors (not just one in isolation) need to be considered when choosing a cartridge, but how is stylus size and profile any more or less a technical measurement than cartridge mass, compliance, or output? All of these factors are fixed by the manufacturer, as opposed to the things we can control, like alignment, VTF, VTA, and loading.

It's pretty well accepted here that mass and compliance are really important to get a good match with your tonearm, and we have formulas to help us get in the right ballpark. Same thing with output and the amount of gain needed in our phono preamps. I just wonder why the effects of stylus size and profile haven't been quantified. Is it because it doesn't matter, or is it because we don't know how to measure it?
armstrod OP
602 posts
 
I wanted to resurrect this thread as just tonight I mounted up my new Zyx Bloom. Stylus size notwithstanding, the Zyx is far quieter in the groove than either my Denon 103R or my Shure V15Vxmr. Even without being broken in, it has better inner detail than the Denon, with as much meat as the Shure, and far tighter bass than either. Part of that is a being a better compliance match for my Well Tempered tonearm; I suspect the rest is modern design versus the 40 year old engineering of the Denon and the Shure. If Zyx can do this well at $500, it's no wonder the $5000 Universe is so well regarded.

Mehran, as always, was friendly and helpful and very patient with my questions, even though I was buying a low dollar cartridge. People like Mehran, George Wright, and CC Poon help to make audio an enjoyable hobby.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. My knowledge, and my system, continue to improve significantly...

David
armstrod OP
602 posts
 
Rolloff,

Is the photo on your systems page the stylus of your 90X? If you look back in the posts on this thread, Dougdeacon has some photos of actual styli, and the differences appear pretty large, although some argued that the differences aren't really significant and, of course, it's only one among many factors in considering a cartridge, which is certainly true.

All I know for sure is now that I have a stylus with a "modern" profile, it's way quieter in the groove. Since the Zyx also has better resolution, I see no other plausible explanation than the stylus is hitting a different part of the groove than the Denon or the Shure. For those of us that buy mostly used records, or didn't take the best care of our records when we were younger (I'm guilty there!), finding a stylus profile that rides fresh vinyl is a big advantage.

I can't wait until my Bloom is broken in... :-)
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