Does Lumin x1 needs a dac ? does a good dac will improve it ?

@haimr,

It was not clear to me how many approximate playing hours you have on your X1.  I have more DACs than good sense.  They all present music a bit differently but I really like the X1.   In my experience, the X1 needs substantial playing time to settle in.  In my system I found at 200 hours the unit was consistently better, and even more so at 400 hour mark.  

The X1 is a streaming DAC and is not configured to accept digital inputs from a CD transport or player.  

It also was not clear to me if you are using the Lumin App to access Tidal or perhaps using in conjunction with a server and player like Roon?  If the latter, what do you use to serve Roon Core?  I do not utilize Tidal, but do use Qobuz.  I find sound presentation is somewhat more transparent with Lumin App, but I often use Roon for the broadly developed landscape options and convenience.

You indicate you have a Plinius preamp--a well regarded company. You can experiment with the X1 going directly to your amp, bypassing the Plinius, by using Leedh Processing option with the X1.  I have used my X1 with preamps and also with Leedh, which really is very good.  

Best

@maxweave,

I have used two preamps with my X1, a Vinnie Rossi L2 Signature DHT with Living Voice 300B tubes and Mola-Mola Makua.   The Vinnie Rossi does not have HT bypass.  I added a passive switch box which allowed me to work a HT bypass for my HT as well as a option for my X1 to go direct.   I truly like the holo touch of the DHT tubes, but the Leedh option seemed more dynamic and transparent, especially using the Lumin App over Roon.  

Some may want to know my opinion on the Mola-Mola vs the X1.   They are different, but both very enjoyable.  In my system and in my opinion, the X1 conveys more of a concert, open space presentation, for me a you are there presentation.   The Mola-Mola gives me more pinpoint imaging illusion and more they are here feel, but these impressions can be specific music album dependent as well as DAC option input on the MM.

I currently have the VR out of the rack, but may bring it back in to experiment on running MM output through the DHT tubes for fun.  I also have a PS Audio DirectStream using I2S from Antipodes K50.   I primarily listen to the MM various DAC input options (AES/EBU, USB, and Roon Ready ethernet) and the X1, but the DirectStream is still enjoyable warm, comfortable listen.   Both the X1 and MM have more spatial detail for me.

I picked up a preowned Mola-Mola Makua with DAC module.  It has more inputs than my VR and allows me to configure HT bypass for one of the locations as well as bypass for the X1, should I wish, or utilize preamp volume control.  I am continuing to evaluate the options there on whether to use Leedh or MM volume Control.  Leedh seems to me to have a bit more body while the MM is very resolving of detail.

@audioman58,

My opinion is that DAC preferences are very much system, music and room dependent along with personal preferences for presentation.   I have not heard the Denafrips Terminator 2, but have read a number of positive user reviews along with positives for Holo May and others.   I have more DACs than the ones I mentioned above.   They all present differently.   It's ok to prefer one over another, but your choice may not be the same as someone else.  We fortunately are in a period where there are a good number of very fine performing DACs and many are far less money than would be expected for their performance just a few years ago.   

My experience with the X1 is that it really needs several hundreds of hours to settle in.   Lumin is very responsive on various forums with advice and problem solving for customers.   Lumin is also very fast on software enhancements as needed.  

I communicated extensively with a gentleman not in the US about my impressions on Mola-Mola vs the Lumin X1.  He has very fine speakers and associated equipment and his DAC had been an unmodified DAVE along with M Scaler.  He was looking to simplify his system while not sacrificing sound quality.  He was able to work with 2 dealers to provide him a Tambaqui and an X1 at the same time for him to home audition and evaluate.   Both dealers knew the situation and allowed him to keep both for extended audition knowing his intentions were real.   He used same cabling on both and diligently worked to minimize extraneous variables.   He was not initially impressed with the X1, but I advised him to get to at least 200 hours of run time on it, with 400 hours being even better before deciding.  It truly was interesting reading his ongoing evaluations.   Based on his early impressions, I thought he would end up with the Tambaqui.   He, however, ended up purchasing the X1.   For his system, room, music,  and his objectives, the X1 was preferred.   Someone else could have very well picked the Tambaqui, and he nearly did.  I have found both are very good for me,  but are different.  I very much like both.  

I respect your purchasing decision, but others may not make the same decision.  As our systems evolve with other pieces, including cabling, isolation, etc., what had been superior in our opinion may also evolve.

Enjoy

@maxwave,

For the passive switch box, I purchased a Kramer Electronics VS-4X.  I really was reticent on adding this, but with my home theater processor in the system and my Vinnie Rossi not having HTB, my choices came down to disconnecting and connecting XLR cables to my active crossover every time I changed to home theater and again back to 2-channel system, replace/remove my Vinnie Rossi unit, or go to a passive switch box.   I had read of another Lumin user using the Kramer unit and did not notice any degradation, so I decided to try it.

I do believe that everything we insert into our audio systems have some influence, so am in the camp that everything matters.  However, we may or may not personally detect an audible difference.   I did not immediately notice a difference, but also admit I did not continue to try to critically test listen on various music selections and resolutions for this.   Basically, I wanted the switch box to be an acceptable solution, and this could have affected my opinion.   However, it was still a kludge, though better than manually switching cables out constantly.  

Before the Vinnie Rossi L2 DHT Signature, I had a VR LIO and had Vinnie configure an HTB for me.  However, he would not do so on the Signature with concerns it could negatively affect audio results.  I do find it interesting that he once again is making that available for your new BRAMA--gorgeous looking unit.  I would think some form of bypass is a favored market customer feature option that can be done very well.  My Mola-Mola Makua allows programming on each input (other than the DAC module inputs) for Line, Phono, or Direct, where Direct is a programmed pass through that disables volume control of the preamp, and should be used only with sources that are volume controlled.

@haimr,

I think you are going to be very pleasantly surprised as you continue to accumulate playing hours on the X1.   You do have the opportunity to test X1 direct with no preamp using Leedh before making preamp decision.  I would caution to thoroughly read the Lumin App instructions and postings by wklie, who is Peter Lie, who is LUMIN Firmware Lead.   He routinely posts on a number of forums, though I do not recall seeing him here.  Audio Sharks has a specific Lumin forum, and he is quite active there.   He is an excellent resource and also a pipeline for possible feature and software enhancements on the Lumin platform.

The primary caution with Leedh involves the dual volume settings and control on the App when you disable Leedh option.  You then can be at 100% volume rather than the reduced percentage you set when you configure Leedh.  Unexpected 100% volume can be dangerous to your speakers and your hearing.  

I was asked about cabling on my X1.  Admittedly, I have been relatively modest on cable expenditures.   I am currently running fiber optic ethernet to the X1 from a PF Buffalo modded switch. For power cord, I am currently using a Triode Wire Labs Digital American to the power supply.   I commonly trial existing power cords to new locations when I add a new piece of equipment and/or new power cord.   Previously, I had an Audio Sensibility Signature V2 power cord with the X1, but moved that to the Makua.   For analog XLR, I am running an experiment.   Prior I had tried Audio Sensibility Signature Silver XLR, but moved it to the connecting cable to my active crossover from preamp.   Prior to getting my Antipodes K50 server player and PF Buffalo, I had to reorganize equipment positions to accommodate.  My XLRs from DACs had been 1m Triode Wire Labs.  Repositioning equipment meant that 1 meter was not long enough for all pieces.  I had done an experiment on AES/EBU out from the K50 using a Mogami AES/EBU Redmond fabricated for me years ago--actually 4 of them.   I was happily surprised how it sounded from the K50.  These are longer than 1 meter and I tried using them as analog XLR output cables.   I use Mogami Golds for much of my home theater XLRs.   The AES/EBU cables had no prior hours on 3 of them and short run time on the other.  The initial perception with practically no run time was a bit bright and edgy but improving as I left in.   I then connected my Triode Wire Labs to the Mogami AES/EBU coming from both X1 and DirectStream DACs as last cable to the preamp.   The results for me have been very good.   It is my opinion that the last section of cable has the largest sound influence of the cable flavor, and XLR terminations make for an easy connection.  I have yet to reverse the Triode Wire Labs and AES/EBU cable locations for the X1 primarily because it is a pain to access the cable connection locations on the X1 due to the "roof" over them and I have liked current sound.   Writing this will probably spur me to try it and compare.  

I suspect many of you will scoff at what I tried, but it is an easy experiment using all analog XLRs, all AES/EBUs, or a combo.   For high end priced interconnects, length gets very expensive and long ones may not resell well.  It is my opinion you can add much of the sound signature by using short one at end connected to a less expensive cable when you need length.    I am not saying that the sound signature would be exactly the same as just one longer interconnect, but I think you will be pleasantly surprised what you can get trying this with various cables.