Does Everyone Use 2 Phono Cables with SUT


I just learned a rather expensive lesson from my audio dealer. I always thought I only needed a phono cable from my turntable to my SUT. By adding another phono cable (not interconnect) from the SUT to the phono preamp, I got a nice improvement in “efficiency.” Everything just flows better.

 

I guess everyone uses 2 phono cables? 

 

 

128x128labpro

Showing 5 responses by mulveling

It’s not nearly that severe a mismatch. 7V into phono stage? You mean 7mV, and probably closer to 5mV after losing losses - perfect for an MM phono stage. The loading certainly isn’t optimal, and a couple dB of signal will be lost to that, but it’s far from dooming the combination to bad sound.

If you mean 2 phono cables as opposed to 1 phono cable into SUT and one "regular" interconnect out of SUT, then yes. The cable coming out of SUT is possibly even more important. Many line-level audiophile interconnects have far too high capacitance to work well in this role (SUTs don't like capacitive loads) - large gauge wires, over-the-top of shielding, braided geometries. Phono cables are optimized for lowest capacitance, so they work well with a SUT. Most Cardas interconnects also tend to have EXCEEDINGLY low capacitance, and are excellent in this role. You'll also want to keep this run as short as possible, under 1m, because capacitance is directly proportional to length

I've tried premium cables like a 1m Audioquest Fire or 1m Sky out of a SUT - it worked, but didn't sound as good as lower capacitance, shorter runs. The coloration effects of each cable became extremely apparent out of a SUT. Audioquest makes phono cables specifically optimized for low capacitance (Cougar, Leopard, Wild LP, WEL LP), and you should use these over their normal IC line. Leopard is quite good without getting into crazy pricing. Of course the AQ Fires and Skys sounded great between amp & preamp (where they belong). 

The Bob's Devices SUT cables are also very good for the money, and they're based on Cardas ingredients.

@mulveling

If you look at the cost of the components to have such a mismatch is sad.

If you put 91 in your Ferrari, it will run, but it won’t perform.

I mean, it’s fair to point out the mismatch. I encourage OP to try other SUTs or MC stages (but keep the T-1 on hand if he gets a lower impedance MC). But audio is audio, not cars, and here it’s as much about personal preference and happy accidents in system matching as it is about absolute performance. I’ve run cartridges with loading ratios close to OP’s. It softens the sound a little, it cedes a couple dBs of level, but it can still sound really really good in the right mix. If OP likes it, then I trust him, and I don’t think he’s a rube for enjoying it. Clearly the BIGGER mismatch he had was with the high capacitance cables! Sometimes the sonic impact comes from areas you wouldn't immediately suspect. 

You don’t need a separate ground wire for the cable coming out of a SUT. A fairly low capacitance, shielded, 0.7m (or less) cable works great. Most shielded cables have shield connected to audio ground on ONE side, and this is the side you should hook into the SUT outputs (i.e. use the SUT as a hub for grounding). 90% of the time, I get no hum this way. I also have cables with a separate ground wire, and honestly this just complicates things - usually I end up grounding on the SUT side and leave the phono stage side floating (which ends up being the same scheme). The internally connected shield is cleaner for this scheme, and works great. The Bob’s Devices cables are constructed just right for this - my only complaint there is the Cardas RCAs grip jacks a little too eagerly. 

@labpro 

Cool, thanks for the follow up :)

The Madake (at 0.23mV and 16 ohms) is not as efficient as most SUT-friendly MC's, but it's not impossible either. You'd typically expect coils less than 5 ohms for an output of 0.23mV (armatures using less ferrous material give less output). Optimally matching the Madake to a SUT is likely to be a delicate balancing act. I'd probably shoot for 20x. Not sure what the T2 is - sort of annoying they don't list the ratio bold and up front!