Does a record player make that much of a difference??


Question for all you Audionerds - in your experience, how much of a difference does one record player make over the next compared with the differences that a cartridge, phone pre-amp, and separate head amp make in the signal chain?

Reason I ask: I just upgraded from a MM cart to a MC cart (Dynavector 20x2-low output). Huge difference - the Dynavector sounds much more alive and detailed compared with the MM. I find my current record player (a Marantz TT16) to be a real pain to work with - I have to manually move the belt on the motor hub to change speeds, and the arm is not very adjustable or easy to do so. But, aside from that, it's not terrible. How much of a difference can I really expect if I upgrade to a better record spinner vs the change I heard from upgrading to a better cart? 

My next acquisition is a separate head amp to feed the phono stage.

Thanks for all your insights!

Josh

joshindc

Showing 3 responses by mijostyn

@joshindc

First of all, how committed are you to records. Do you have a large collection? The reason I ask is going to the next step is not cheap and if you do not go that far you will not appreciate much of a difference.

Turntables have to meet certain requirements to " disappear." You should never be listening to a turntable. A turntable must spin accurately at 33 1/3 rpm without adding any noise or resonance while isolating the record and cartridge from the outside world. The cartridge is a vibration measurement device and it does not care where the vibration comes from. Without a proper suspension a turntable can not isolate the cartridge from the outside world. 

The least expensive turntable that meets these requirements is the Thorens TD 1600. Up from there is the Sota Sapphire with your choice of arm. Then on to the more expensive Sotas, Basis, SME, Avid and Oracle turntables. The Dohmann Helix 1 is the cream of the crop. The difference sonically between all these turntables given the same arm and cartridge is really quite small. A few of them go out of their way to look flashy which adds to the cost. You will be thrilled to death with the Thorens. IMHO it is the best value in a high performance turntable on the market today. 

@joshindc 

Quite the contrary. A tonearm am cartridge can not perform at their best on a less than optimal turntable. Making any mechanical device "disappear" in the context of a very sensitive vibration measurement device is not a chore for the 1/2 hearted. 

Over the years I have managed to expel the the appearance devil out of my person having bought what turned out to be inferior devices that looked cool. I could care less what a piece of audio gear looks like as long as it is well crafted. The Thorens TD 1600 is a great example of that ethic. Thinking this way will save you a pile of money in the long run and most probably the result will be a much better system. 

I added a finger lift to a few of the mounting plates of my Schroder CB. They are titanium wire and heat shrink. I can not hear a difference between modified and unmodified plates, but since I do not have two identical cartridges I can not do a direct AB comparison which is what is really needed. I do not use the lifter. I have a Little Fwend do the lifting at the end of the record and I cue the record manually. I use the lifter only as a block when I am working on the adjustments. To cue a record manually you have to have a finger lift. The physics of the situation are not that difficult. The cartridge is sitting on a suspension, the resonance frequency of that suspension is around 7 Hz. Nothing above about 20 Hz gets to the tonearm through the cartridge. Then there is airborne vibration. I use a dust cover during play that greatly attenuates the higher frequencies that might affect the finger lift. If the finger lift is stiff enough, it's resonance frequency will be above the audio range and will be damped by the heat shrink. A good test is, if you can bend the finger lift by hand it might be a problem, if you can not bend it by hand it will be OK. 

@tomic601 

"cleared decay." ?? I have hours of seat time with the Safir on a suspended CS Port. It sounded like the record to me. The turntable did not sound at all. For those of you considering a CS Port you have to take into account the very large around 14" platter which can make fitting a short tonearm a real party. I would not go below 10". The CS Port also has a very unique feature. The surface of the platter is ground concave. You can see it easily if you put a straight edge across it. The CS Port comes with a very heavy record weight. This presses the record into the concavity in a similar fashion as a reflex clamp. It also presents the record to the stylus at a slightly different angle. Azimuth should be adjusted to account for this.