Do I need a sub woofer to match my ATC SCM11s

jeres8860,

     If you like your ATC mains and have the space in your room, I think I have a good solution for you.
     It's called a distributed bass array system and it provides state of the art bass response in virtually any room and integrates seamlessly with any speakers.  It basically consists of 4 subs strategically placed in the room  that delivers exceptionally good bass throughout the entire room, not just at a designated 'sweet spot.  
     These dba systems can be purchased as complete kits (4 rather small 2.5'h x2'w x1'd unamplified subs with a 1K watt amp with equalizer and crossover) such as the Audio Kinesis Swarm and DEBRA systems for about $3K or you can build your own custom dba using your choice of subs.  Here's a link to a review of the Swarm system by The Absolute Sound:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audiokinesis-swarm-subwoofer-system/

     I have large Magnepan panel loudspeakers which are notoriously difficult speakers to integrate with subs.  I bought the Audio Kinesis DEBRA complete kit( almost identical to the Swarm) a few years ago and I'm thrilled with it.  It's given my system seamlessly integrated bass down to 20 Hz +/- 3dB that's capable of reproducing accurate, natural and life-like bass whether the bass content is deep and powerful or fast and taut.

    I'm almost certain a dba would work equally well with your speakers and room. Audio Kinesis also offers a 30-Day in-home trial period .on the Swarm and DEBRA.
     I have no connections of any kind with Audio Kinesis, I'm just a very satisfied customer.
Good luck, 
Tim

jeres8860,

     Do you have a budget for your sub?

Jeres8860,

     Congratulations on your new REL sub.  
     If you're just going to utilize a single sub in your room, the best you can hope to attain is good bass response and integration with your main speakers at your preferred listening seat.  
     Because bass sound waves are so long, often longer than any dimension in smaller rooms, the placement of the sub within the room is very important for optimizing bass performance at your 'sweet spot' listening seat.  Here's the best method I'm aware of for properly positioning a single sub:
1. Hook-up your sub and place it at your listening seat.  You should  move your ATC mains spkrs and stands about 3-4 feet away from the front wall and into the room.

2. Play some music with good and repetitive bass content.

3. Starting at the right-front-corner of your room, walk slowly along the walls of your entire room counter-clockwise until you discover an exact spot at which the bass sounds the best to you.

4. Re-position the sub from your listening position to the exact spot that the bass sounded best to you.

5. Sit at your listening seat and verify the bass sounds good to you.

6.  Re-position your left and right ATC speakers on their stands so that the midrange, treble and sound stage illusion are optimized at your listening seat.  

7.  Adjust the volume and cut-off frequency on your REL sub until the total musical presentation sounds best to you from your listening seat.  It's easiest if you sit at the sweet spot and have someone else perform the adjustments at your direction.

     You'll probably quickly notice a few things.  Positioning the sub in a corner will reinforce the bass and cause it to sound exaggerated and boomy.  In my experience, avoiding corners and positioning the sub, even a small distance, away from the nearest wall results in a more natural and well integrated bass response.
     I've learned to treat my system as two systems; a bass system and a mid/treble sound stage illusion (imaging) system.  I've attained the best total system sound in my rooms by positioning my sub(s) first without my main speakers even connected or in the same room.  
    Once the solid foundation of good bass response is installed and present in the room and system, it's really just a matter of inserting or overlaying good mid,treble and imaging response into the room by properly positioning the l+r main spkrs in relation to the listening seat that remains to achieve very good overall system response.  I suggest best results will likely require your ATC on stands to be positioned a significant distance away from your front wall and into the room (4 plus feet if you're able).  You may also benefit in your room by experimenting with placing absorbent or diffusing wall treatment panels at 1st reflection points along each side wall.
     I believe treating your system as 2 systems is useful because the bass sound waves in any given room actually behave differently than the higher frequency sound waves.  Long bass sound waves are much more difficult to control via room treatments in a given room than the much shorter and more directional mid and treble sound waves.  I'd suggest adding additional subs to improve in-room bass response before adding large and expensive bass room treatments.
     These very different bass and mid/treble sound waves also do not interact, influence, depend on or affect one another.  As I understand them, the only relevant way these sound waves are related at all is that some fundamental bass tones reproduced by a sub or subs may have upper harmonics that extend into the range of directional frequencies that may be reproduced by the main speakers.  This is not really an issue since the higher frequency bass harmonics reproduced by the main speakers actually assists our ears/brains in properly positioning deep bass instruments and voices within the soundstage illusion.

Tim  

Hello jeres8860,

     You're welcome, I'm glad you thought it was useful.  

    I don't consider myself a bass expert, I've just learned a lot over the years trying to integrate good bass response with various Magnepan speakers in my system and room.  I've tried a single sub, 2 subs and the 4 sub AK DEBRA dba in my system and have learned that 2 subs will provide better bass response and integration than a single sub.  I've never tried 3 subs but believe it would work better than 2 subs if positioned properly and I know that a 4 sub dba will provide state of the art in-room bass response and integration in virtually  any room and with any speakers.  

     I know of no single sub, no matter the quality or price, that is capable of providing anywhere near the sota bass performance of a 4 sub dba.  However, I know you'll be able to achieve very good bass performance with your single REL sub if you set it up properly. 
     I think the most difficult and subtlest steps for you will probably  be setting the REL's volume and cutoff frequency optimally.  I'd suggest setting both as low as possible while still sounding natural, well integrated and the best to you.
     New sub users often make the mistake of setting both too high out of a desire to make the affects of their new and likely expensive sub clearly and obviously heard. Resisting this temptation will result in an overall sound affect that is more subtle but more natural and better integrated with your main speakers.  Remember, the goal is to extend the bass definition and dynamics of your system's sound stage in a seamless manner so that it sounds like a cohesive whole.
     Please let us know the results once you have it properly installed in your system.

Tim   

Hello noble 100,

"some systems use two subs, -is the integration of two subs easier, more seamless."

Hello changeout,

     In most systems and rooms, I think 2 subs will provide better bass performance than 1, 3 subs will work better than 2 and 4 subs will optimize bass response to state of the art levels in virtually any system/room.  This is assuming that all subs are carefully and properly positioned within the room.

    In my experience, the more subs I've utilized in my system/room the more life-like, seamless, dynamic and effortless the perceived bass becomes.  I've personally only used 1, 2 and 4 subs in my system/room and my statement that 3 subs work better than 2 is based on acoustic researcher"s experimental results along with numerous fellow members' reported experiences.

     The proper positioning of the sub or subs within a room is required for optimizing bass response.  I mentioned on an earlier post exactly how to position a single sub to attain optimum bass response at the listening seat.  The same procedure is followed for each additional sub added to the system/room.  

     As the number of subs in a system/room is increased beyond a single sub, you'll notice the bass begins to sound better at more locations in the room beyond just the sweet spot.with sota bass response throughout the entire room existing once 4 subs are deployed.  

   Bass effortlessness, impact and dynamics also increases, as the number of subs in the room increases (when the subs are configured to operate in mono mode) since each sub is required to contribute a smaller portion of the total bass output. 

Tim

     

Hi mapman,

    Don't you think it's more difficult to optimize the positioning of large full range speakers in relation to the listening seat since the midrange, treble and bass drivers are all located within a single cabinet? 
     I don't consider it difficult to position large full range speakers to optimize the mid/treble frequency response and imaging at the listening seat; it typically just takes some experimenting with the distance between the speakers, distance out from the front wall, distance from the listening seat, toe-in and often some room treatments along the side walls to control first reflection points. 
     Once the large speakers are optimally positioned for midrange/treble and imaging, however, the bass response at the listening seat cannot be optimized because the position of the bass drivers cannot be independently located within the room to do so.  The bass drivers are locked into position, usually at the bottom section of the large speaker cabinets below the midrange and treble drivers.  
     I agree with you that adding a sub or two to a system that uses small monitor speakers betters the experience by extending the low end that is otherwise missing.  
     But I disagree that a pair of good quality. large and expensive full range speakers would be superior to a pair of good quality, smaller and less expensive monitors on stands along with at least a couple of good subs.  The main reason being the ability of the monitor system to independently optimize the mid/treble/imaging at the listening seat with monitor positioning and the bass response at the listening seat with sub positioning.
     Of course, I think a pair of good quality, large and expensive full range speakers along with at least a couple of good subs independently positioned would be even better.

Tim