cleeds
ethan_winer1agear, if you like the sound of analog tape and vinyl, then you like the sound of distortion
"Logical fallacy of the excluded middle, of course."
this entire thread is a study in logical fallacies. It’s become a tutorial on how NOT to carry on a debate. It’s got it all. Argumentum Ad hominem, strawman arguments, Appeal to Authority, Appeal to Age, Argument from Questioning Motives, Appeal to Science, Appeal to Credentials. And the most common logical fallacy on this thread,
Argument from Ignorance: The fallacy that since we don’t know (or can never know, or cannot prove) whether a claim is true or false, it must be false.
😀
Geoff Kait
machina dynamica
we do artificial atoms right!
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ethan_winer
But if you’re serious about understanding audio, you’d do well to cancel your subscription to the audiophile magazines and join the AES instead.
But isn’t AES actually an anti audiophile organization? For example, how do they stand on audiophile cables? On aftermarket power cords? On aftermarket fuses? On wire directionality? On vibration isolation? On Schumann frequency generators? On the importance of absolute polarity? No need to answer. It’s a rhetorical question.
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ethan_winer
BTW folks (not you Ralph), I totally accept this is all my bad. I'm the atheist who ran into the church yelling, "There is no god!" :->)
Actually you're more like Chicken Little running around yelling, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"
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atmasphere
Geoffkait: But isn’t AES actually an anti audiophile organization?
Seems to me Stanley Lipshitz first presented his formulae on creating RIAA EQ curves to the AES. They also have that File 48 (balanced line standard) I like to trot out. Baby and the bathwater...
ah, so it's a mix of science and anti audiophile conservative dogma?
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However in order to sort through the BS you have to be capable of distinguishing between BS and reality. Follow, Spaceman? |
agear OP
What I would really like to see is a video of Mr. Kaits (sic) demonstrating his technology.....
Huh? Spring based isolation devices don't move. They just sit there. There's nothing to see, silly.
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ethan_winer
LOL, yes agear. I would love to see any actual accomplishments from any of these people arguing with us! At least we know that Ralph is a knowledgeable electronics engineer. But what the heck do the others know? What are their credentials? What musical instruments do they play at a professional level? What music have they composed? What recordings have they made? What circuits have they designed? What technical papers have they had printed in mainstream publications? Why should we listen to their opinion about anything? These are all absolutely serious questions. Geoff, you can go first please. :->)
nathan, I don’t like to brag. Besides demands for credentials are stupid and prove nothing. Plus these demands for credentials do actually do reveal some sort of inferiority complex imho. On top of everything the Appeal to Authority is a logical fallacy, remember? Duh?
"These are all absolutely serious questions." You are never absolutely serious, Nathan. You are as disingenuous as they come. Do you think I don’t know who you?
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dlcockrum
Ethan Winer: "...because I’ve been offering such visits for many years. Even when they live only a few towns away they refuse."
"A blind man could see why."
Ouch! Very ouch!
😩
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I hate to sound pedantic but there are a great many reasons why stock untreated CDs right out of the box played on stock untreated CD players frequently sound pretty terrible. And it’s not the recording folks. It’s not that it’s an early CD and it’s not because the bit rates aren’t high enough. Allow me to summarize why CDs often sound terrible. You can also visit my web page where I explain all the gory details. Most of these issues are inherent to the design of the CD and the CD player. A few are out of our control. Why Do CDs Sound So Horrible, http://machinadynamica.com/machina35.htm1. CDs not demagnetized 2. CDs static charge not neutralized 3. CD Player not isolated 4. Scattered background laser light getting into the photodetector, both the visible and invisible portions 5. The magnetic fields produced by large transformers are degrading the sound 6. CD not absolutely level whilst spinning 7. CD Resonating 8. Fuse in wrong direction 9. Interconnects in wrong direction 10. Most CDs especially audiophile CDs are in reverse absolute polarity 11. Most CDs in the past 20 years are overly compressed, especially those released recently geoff kait machina dynamica |
Agear
Atmasphere: FWIW, the fact that trace amounts of the 7th order causes a metallic quality in the sound is something that has been known since the 1930s. So I don’t see it as any stretch at all to simply acknowledge that such could be the case. I really don’t want to devote more time going round and round on the topic than you do.
Reference? How did they arrive at that conclusion?
Really. Besides, lots of things cause that metallic quality. E.g., RFI/EMI, vibration, background scattered light. As I’ve oft stated, in addition to that metallic quality there’s that thin quality, the rolled off quality, the bass shy quality, the congealed pablum quality, the screechy irritating quality, the electronic quality, the boring empty quality, the recorded-in-a-barrel quality, the uninterleaved quality. I trust I’m not the only one who hears it, am I?
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Nathan _Winer wrote,
"So this is my last comment for now:"
Is that a promise or a threat?
😎
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Geoffkait: Really. Besides, lots of things cause that metallic quality. E.g., RFI/EMI, vibration, background scattered light. As I’ve oft stated, in addition to that metallic quality there’s that thin quality, the rolled off quality, the bass shy quality, the congealed pablum quality, the screechy irritating quality, the electronic quality, the boring empty quality, the recorded-in-a-barrel quality, the uninterleaved quality. I trust I’m not the only one who hears it, am I?
agear
Agreed 100%. RFI/EMI is a biggie although a lot of people think that’s hogwash as well (along with the subject of this thread).
right, again. Like seismic vibration especially.
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bdp24
Things that are more noticed when they are removed than they were by virtue of their presence. It wasn't until I heard the transparency provided by an electrostatic loudspeaker that I realized just how colored, veiled, and opaque cone speakers were.
That's so true! There is also the Last Tweak Syndrome at work here. For any red blooded audiophile who has integrated some tweaks into his system over the years there comes a point when he says to himself, gee whiz, it can't get any better than this, can it? Then the next tweak comes along and he says, Gosh, now it really can't get any better, can it? So the skepticism of many folks is not completely without merit. It's the Last Tweak Syndrome in action.
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ethan_winer
Ralph said: " You can have a fair amount of THD and still have relatively low IMD figures."
I doubt it, though I'll be glad to be proven wrong
Juror #3 in 12 Angry Men: "You can't prove it!"
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Someone posted,
"Perhaps it might help to know that in the last ten years, Dr. Herbert Melcher has shown that the human ear/brain system has tipping points. An example of that is if the playback has insufficient speed (risetime) the brain has a tipping point where the music processing is transferred from the limbic centers to the cerebral cortex."
That wouldn’t be THE Dr. Hebert Melcher, would it? 😬
When he he says the human ear/brain has tipping points is that anything like tipping over a cow? No one seems to understand how hearing works, and I’m not talking about the inner ear, the neurons or the transmitters or the cerebral cortex. Give me a break! It’s that way of thinking that’s SO wrong-headed and just plain dumb. I’m quite sure if there is someone out there who does understand how we hear it most likely ain’t Dr. Herbert Besides just to clarify my position if you can't hear or aren't sure what you're even listing to all the measurements and high faluting "scientific" explanations won't help. You're up the creek without a paddle.
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This whole thread has taken a nasty and totally unnecessary turn. In the first place ever since the bullet headed amplifier reviewer from Audio Review opined that all amplifiers that measure about the same sound the same, audiophiles who actually can hear have laughed at anyone who demands proof or measurements. A lot of you young whipper snappers are too young to remember the big solid state amp vs tube amp debate from the 80s. But noone could explain completely why a solid state amp with vanishingly low 0.0005% THD could sound SO %€$@! BAD relative to a reasonably good tube amp with 0.05% THD, which according my calculations is TWO ORDERS of magnitude - or for those technically challenged - 100 TIMES HIGHER than the solid state amp’s THD. Hel-loo!
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Nathan_Winer wrote,
"I noticed that you quote people like JA and John Curl in lieu of providing evidence. If you read my many articles and watch my many videos, you’ll see they all include lots of evidence. Microphones capturing the sound of different diffuser types, audio examples of both static and changing phase shift, measurements and audio recordings that let people hear exactly what to expect from acoustic treatment, and so much more. Versus literally zilch from your side of the aisle.
:->)"
Pretty clever! You’ve changed your tune from demanding proof to demanding evidence. That’s a new wrinkle in an otherwise tepid and snooze-worthy exchange. Could Nathan be softening? Could Nathan be rethinking his position? Are we about to witness an epiphany? Don’t touch that dial! Talk among yourselves. Smoke if ya got em.
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Agear
I read Naked Lunch in HS. Burroughs was hardly a font of wisdom with his penchant for heroin and young boys.
maybe you should read it again.
"In 1983, Burroughs was elected to the American Academy and Institute of Arts and Letters, and in 1984 he was awarded the Ordre des Arts et des Lettres by France.[1] Jack Kerouac called Burroughs the "greatest satirical writer since Jonathan Swift",[2] a reputation he owes to his "lifelong subversion"[3] of the moral, political, and economic systems of modern American society, articulated in often darkly humorous sardonicism. J. G. Ballard considered Burroughs to be "the most important writer to emerge since the Second World War", while Norman Mailer declared him "the only American writer who may be conceivably possessed by genius"."
An ordinary man has no means of deliverance. - Wm Burroughs
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Agear wrote,
"Burroughs was hardly a font of wisdom with his penchant for heroin and young boys."
then Agear defended that statement with,
"It was not a reference to his writing but rather his life and how he lived. Two different things grasshopper. What literature did you read beyond english composition 101 in E-school?
The discussion in which the Ginsberg Burroughs anecdote appeared was about knowledge not lifestyle. To whit,
"Burroughs, older and wiser, simply replied that he didn’t say anything because "you can’t tell anybody anything they don’t already know." That’s putting it rather in the extreme, but it’s another way of saying that some people just don’t get it and never will."
The more I think about it the Burroughs quote could apply to you. 😛
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bdp24
I cut off my mop in 2003 when Pearl Harbor (whose band I had just joined) asked me if I would not mind doing. She was a London-type Punk/Rockabilly singer (three albums on WB, Stiff in the UK), and didn't cotton to anything remotely hippie-ish. She had been married to Clash bassist Paul Simonon, and ....
uh, did you say Clash? Prepare to get stalked. 😳
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bdp24
For those still with me ;-), an inference that can be drawn from the feeling of being outside the physical universe is that the source of our collective consciousness, such as it is, is itself ("His" self) outside of it; the Creator and his Creation. Mystical, man.
that’s a perfect lead in to a nice, mind boggling post on the dodgy subject of PWB Electronics, I.e. Peter Belt. What with their theories of shared memory, Morphic resonance, mind over matter, quantum teleportation, ESP, the perception of sound on the subconscious level, and the Mind Lamp from Psyleron, the multi-color lamp that changes color according to thoughts in the room. Oh, it’s coming. I promise. Oops, wrong thread.
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agear OP Not to get too personal here, but regarding "remote".....one aspect of my last "time" involved the perception that we are looking at the physical universe through our eyes, with the same feeling one gets when looking through the eye holes in a mask, being behind the mask and everything else on the other side of it---a two dimensional construct. Except that of course our "mask" is part of the three-dimensional universe, not two. We feel like we are inside our bodies, looking out at the universe those bodies are in through our eyes. Many people don’t consider their body "them", but rather what they are "in" at the moment. That is called an OOBE and as such is simply a neurological epiphenomena. Nothing spiritual per say although its novelty can lead one to construct an alter around that experience. Mr. Leary certainly did. Another warning about hallucinogens (all natural ones): http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0269881116662634Thanks for the heads up. Someone needed to pick up the banner from Nancy Reagan. Just say no 😱 |
agear OP
Still just an epiphenomenon whether it be Bach or LSD or magical tweaks that add gasoline to our pre-wired placebo cauldron. To be truly meaningful, there has to be a sentient "other" and not simply a closed loop.
Gosh, I don’t think I’ve seen that before - someone trying to win an argument by appealing to big words. I thought I’d seen them all. That’s a new logical fallacy on me. Must be related to the Snow Job fallacy.
😁
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Let us resolve that,
1. LSD shall not be administered to children.
2. LSD shall not be use to spike the punch at school parties.
3. LSD shall not be placed in bananas and given to gorillas or other animals at the zoo.
4. LSD shall not be given to pets.
5. LSD shall not be taken during pregnancy.
6. LSD shall not be taken everyday.
7. LSD shall not be taken by commercial airline pilots whilst or within 12 hours of operating aircraft.
8. LSD shall not be taken by an officer during military combat.
9. Surgeons shall refrain from ingesting LSD prior to surgeries expected to last more than three hours.
10. Air traffic controllers shall refrain from ingesting LSD within 12 hours of scheduled work.
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mapman
Putting any unnatural chemicals and/or toxins into your body is something to always avoid unless needed. Stick with mainstream herbal supplements if a safer boost of some kind is needed.
Mainstream herbal supplements? For depression and psychosis? You mean like, uh, marijuana?
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Geoffkait: The discussion in which the Ginsberg Burroughs anecdote appeared was about knowledge not lifestyle. To whit,
"Burroughs, older and wiser, simply replied that he didn’t say anything because "you can’t tell anybody anything they don’t already know." That’s putting it rather in the extreme, but it’s another way of saying that some people just don’t get it and never will."
The more I think about it the Burroughs quote could apply to you. 😛
Agear: And you separate those two things how? Have you read any of his novels or are you flying on derivative knowledge as usual....? Again, I don’t look to either pedophiles or drug addicts for "knowledge" aka wisdom.
Bobo the botonist takes a swing at the theoretical physicist and misses. I can certainly understand why it took you 10 years to get out of school. I’m much better read than you are, that’s pretty obvious.
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mapman
Ginseng and ginger for example are reknowned for their medicinal value. You can look up the commonly found benefits and decide whether or not they might be of value for whatever ails you. Many others as well.
Ginseng and ginger? For depression and psychosis? Renowned by whom, Dr. Oz? You’re serious, aren’t you? We’re not talking about the mange or dandruff here.
😳
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Gosh, what ever happened to this thread?
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mapman
14,230 posts
Good point
Hey, mopman, you were one of the miscreants. Hel-loo!
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ptss
Only on the electronics that are placed directly on them.
Stove Piping and the Backfire Effect
I guess it was inevitable that a topic such as this, do equipment stands have any influence on electronics would bring out the self-styled skeptics and stand up comedians. But what is both ironic and surprising is the cold hard realization (by your humble scribe, at least) that vibration control and vibration isolation are still perceived by many audiophiles as controversial, or completely unnecessary, or even unwanted and deleterious to the sound, or even a well-orchestrated scam. It appears that this whole vibration isolation subject in particular demonstrates what I like to call "Stove Piping" by audiophiles - working in isolation (no pun intended) and developing their own "interpretation" of what a high end audio system should be. This results in everyone comes out with his own "interpretation" of what’s involved.
That’s what Stove Piping does: without sharing of ideas and due diligence and research, systems out there will incorporate their owners’ ideas of what constitutes high end audio. Obviously we all have different ideas what that is. It’s no wonder there is so much disagreement in audio about ALMOST EVERYTHING. And I think it’s true audiophiles cling to their beliefs and cannot be shaken in them, for better or worse. Obviously some beliefs SHOULD be clung to. But many beliefs are worthy of rejection. The problem is, and this is demonstrated on many audio forum threads, the more an audiophile’s beliefs are confronted or contradicted the stronger he embraces them - the Backfire Effect in action. To summarize, Stove Piping and the Backfire Effect prevent many audiophiles from progressing and getting stuck. That’s why some people can be perceived as being stuck in the 80s or 90s.
No matter how much you have in the end you would have had even more if you had started out with more. - audiophile law of maximization
a brief history of Stove Piping
The most common types of intelligence collection, and to some extent processing, which are commonly found in "stovepipes", include signal intelligence (SIGINT), imagery intelligence (IMINT), and human intelligence (HUMINT). While there are other forms of sensitive intelligence collection, these "big three", in a proper use, complement one another. A SIGINT communications intercept, for example, may suggest the presence of a particular military unit in a given location. For example, as part of the Operation Quicksilver deception plan during World War II, dummy communications were generated for the fictitious First United States Army Group (FUSAG), ostensibly commanded by George Patton, in order to convince the Germans that the main attack would come at the Pas-de-Calais, rather than the real target of Normandy. Dummy equipment was positioned in the places consistent with the communications, and a very few German high-altitude photographic aircraft brought back evidence apparently confirming IMINT. The British, however, had jailed or turned all German HUMINT spies, through the Double Cross System. Had a real spy been able to get to a FUSAG location, he would have seen the tanks were inflatable rubber decoys. The British, however, allowed only false confirmations of real tanks to be sent.
geoff kait
machina dynamica
no goats, no glory
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cleeds
Agear: "Stove piping" is something we all do, but its partly the byproduct of our intrinsically schizophrenic hobby ...
"Please speak for yourself. Schizophrenia is a dreadful disease. It is not "intrinsic" to our hobby."
Yeah, I don't think it's quite that bad. Perhaps a mild disorder like obsessive compulsive disorder or mild depression. Perhaps mild case of bipolar. In some cases even a full blown case of the you know what.
😄
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Definition of schizophrenia
1
: a mental disorder that is characterized by disturbances in thought (such as delusions), perception (such as hallucinations), and behavior (such as disorganized speech or catatonic behavior), by a loss of emotional responsiveness and extreme apathy, and by noticeable deterioration in the level of functioning in everyday life —called also dementia praecox ◆Schizophrenia often involves an inability to orient oneself with reality, a withdrawal from social interactions, and a failure to integrate thoughts with emotions so that emotional expression is inappropriate. There are several subtypes of schizophrenia, including paranoid schizophrenia and those types marked by catatonia or hebephrenia.
that sounds about right. I've often thought the pseudo skeptics and naysayers to be at sea as it were and filled to the brim with angst.
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Agear
To be more specific, schizoid mentation/depression/OCD tendencies superimposed on a predisposition towards addiction: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/music-sex-stimulate-same-part-brain-opioid-drugs-rock-n-roll-mcgill-university-scientific-reports-a7568606.html
Her name was McGill and she called herself Lil but everyone knew her as Nancy.
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"I like my cigar, too, but I take it out sometimes." - Groucho Marx, on You Bet Your Life
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Come on, Mains. Are you pulling our legs?
"I have found threw trial and error"
"We have not all got stacks of doe"
"Benefit your hole system"
"great on there own"
"one product that done it all"
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Mpingo discs of course shouldn’t really be included in your list of vibration isolation products since they are best placed in the category of vibration control. Which leads me to make the following observation. The reason you had such good results with the Mpingo discs is that you already had implemented vibration control protocols. So it’s easier to hear changes to the system. The system is more revealing of tweaks in general. The Mpingo discs can lead to harder things like Shun Mook Spatial Kits that comprise 3 Mpingo discs per bracket and are super powerful, as well as other vibration control devices such as Marigo VTS dots for Windows, walls, speaker diaphragms, speaker cabinets, electronics chassis, capacitors, CD tray, electron tubes, among other things. I have constrained layer dampers for transformers, CD transports and shelving for electronics, and natural cork (Quark!) solutions for capacitors, transformers and capacitors. The pebbles addresses vibration issues for room boundaries, transformers, speaker cabinets, Windows, walls, standing waves, reflected acoustic waves and other comb filter effects, etc. Herbies tube dampers (but not other types of tube dampers) should also be included in any list of vibration control devices. And let us not forget all those tiny little bowl acoustic resonators, including my own ceramic ones and my ceramic wall outlets which are also vibration control devices.
The Law of System Maximization: No matter how much you have in the end you would have had even more if you had started off with more.
geoff kait
machina dynamica
advanced audio concepts |
Agear posted,
DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:
Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerating your achievements and talents
Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
Requiring constant admiration
Having a sense of entitlement
Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
Taking advantage of others to get what you want
Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Being envious of others and believing others envy you
Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner
Ah, now I see what you mean! Yes, that does describe you. Actually I’d add that you are not a quick study, which might explain why it took you seven years to get out of UVa.
cheers
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dlcockrum
403 posts
11-01-2016 9:08am
Hi geoffkait,
I recognize those traits so well in myself. Like looking in a mirror when I don’t spend any time seeking God.
I have a sign in my listening room, "BE SURE TO TASTE YOUR WORDS BEFORE YOU SPIT THEM OUT". I make sure to stop and read it each and every morning.
Best to you Geoff, really,
Dave
You know Dave, this thread is not about me. It’s about how stands affect the electronics. Hel-loo! Even reformed trolls should address the topic at some point, no? We already have enough wannbe moderators here.
Have a nice day
geoff kait
machina dramatica
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czarivey
3,278 posts
10-03-2016 11:55am
they’re not part of signal path.
The wall is not part of the signal path, either. Yet....
The bus passing by is not part of the signal path, either. Yet.... |
agear OP
1,180 posts
10-24-2016 1:15pm
Would you believe I copied the paragraphs from Sheldrake’s website. I never said the words were mine. In fact I said they were not mine. Hel-loo!
And you ascribe to this woo woo without data? Hel-loo!????
Its just theory, but should not be presented so brusquely as fact. That is your primary weakness in the context of these debates.
Hmmmm. It’s the concept, silly. Data is for sissies. Your weakness in this particular debate is that you are not prepared to defend *either* position. Yet you want to argue and be snippy. In short, a troll. Anyone can see your OP was nothing more than a lame troll. A troll by a wannabe. Have you considered going back to school? Maybe follow in your Daddy’s footsteps. |
mapman
13,827 posts
10-26-2016 4:35pm
Lots of things get exposed all the time and nobody seems to care.
Either people are numb these days or some things are just not significant enough to loose any sleep over. Or both. Whatever it is there is lots of it going around and some will naturally find ways to profit from it.
Whoa! What? When did this thread turn into a pinhead convention? More babbling from a self righteous and not overly bright old man.
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mapman
13,836 posts
10-29-2016 4:20pm
Keep rambling Kimosabe. Maybe there is someout there who cares about your meaningless blather and useless products.
So sayeth the geologist. Now I see why you keep trying to pass yourself off as an engineer. I wouldn’t want to call myself a geologist, either. By the way, that was almost a compete sentence you wrote, Commander. Can I suggest you anesthetize yourself with liquor if it will make you feel better? I understand how angry and wrapped around the axel you get. :-)
There is no joy today in Mudville.
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randy-11
164 posts
10-30-2016 5:00pm
no one cares about your sexual habits
Well, no one except for you, Zippy. |
agear OP
1,211 posts
10-31-2016 9:56am
The internet was created as a research/communication tool. Unfortunately, a lot of what passes for facts is itself poorly researched but people are lazy and misinterpret fiction for facts.
It actually works both way due perhaps to the rather poor education system, I.e., a lot of facts are misinterpreted as fiction. Other countries are probably more open minded and better educated; has anyone seen the tests scores these days? Geez! In the US the education hierarchy appears to be BS, More BS and finally Piled Higher and Deeper.
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agear OP
1,214 posts
10-31-2016 3:06pm
Klipsch suck. And more to the point they’re not even isolated. What kind of low rent MidFi establishment is that dude running?
You missed the point of the article (which is not surprising since your critical thinking skills are those of a dull undergraduate with an attention deficit). For the record, Klipsch speakers properly modified and with the right equipment can sound very good. They are not quite up to the level of your morphic resonanator Walkman but they can be a lot of fun.
If you say so. I guess that's why you're mr. golden ears. Can't post without name calling, can you? Amateurs.
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randy-11
169 posts
10-31-2016 3:46pm
Please! The comparison to a dull undergraduate with an attention deficit is unfair to all dull undergraduates with an attention deficits.
Move it down to Jr. high schoolers with behavior problems.
The name calling remark from Mr. Troll is priceless!
Ah, the pinhead checks in. Where ya been keeping yourself, Zippy?
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agear OP
1,215 posts
10-31-2016 4:32pm
mapman
13,847 posts
10-31-2016 3:18pm
Agear, critical thinking requires work and effort and a certain degree of humility even. keep on dreaming!
Good comeback! Brutal! :-) Map-o-Rama!
That was directed at you Einstein.
No shirt, Sherlock.
BTW, the snippet from the DSMR was pretty accurate. What say ye?
Dark Side of the Moon?
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mapman wrote,
"Gk just hit the report button if you have an issue just like everyone else."
I bet bet you hit the report button a lot, Moopman. Never saw anyone complain so much.
then Mapman wrote,
"You personally attack people who challenge your nonsense all the time. From there its an eye for an eye, bucko."
Bucko? What are you, still living in the 70s? I don’t personally attack anyone. I attack their ideas. Like your outdated and mildly retarded ideas. Eye for an eye? Huh?! Try to resist all the biblical drama! Save the drama for yo mama!
then Mapman wrote,
"Change your approach and your post count that you so covet will go up much faster. Maybe you will even catch me someday."
Are you listening to yourself? Stop trying to be the moderator. You’re not the boss of me. Go admire your rock collection and above all get a life!
have a nice day
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Mapman wrote,
"My belief is certain things remain holy. Anyone can look up what those things are and decide to take them to heart or not."
Gee whiz, Mapman, I’m not going to get struck by lightning, am I? I’ve always wondered Why is it that many controversial audio discussions degenerate into some sort of religious holy war? Let the inquisition begin! You can be the guy in the red hood. Lol
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