Dave wrote,
"Hi Geoff,
Keep swingin’. I hope you have a hit here. Really.
Best to you all,
Dave"
Back at ya, Slick
I just wanna know about, the rooms behind
your minds,
Do I see a vacuum there, or am I going blind?
Or is it just remains from vibrations and echoes
long ago,
Things like ’Love the World’ and ’Let your fancy
flow’,
Is this true? Please let me talk to you. Let me
talk to you.
I have lived here before, the days of ice,
And of course this is why I’m so concerned,
So where do I purchase my ticket,
I would just like to have a ringside seat,
I want to know about the new Mother Earth,
I want to hear and see everything,
I want to hear and see everything,
I want to hear and see everything.
Aw, shucks,
If my daddy could see me now.
;-) |
mapman
13,918 posts
11-06-2016 7:43pm
It’s not hard to detect vibrations. Just set a container of water on the subject and watch for ripples. It’s natures natural vu meter for vibrations. Of course be careful not to spill.
Gosh, there an echo in here? I said the same thing on this thread a couple weeks ago. I also mentioned it in the notorious similar thread that went belly up a few weeks ago, when I said, "You can see the *seismic* vibrations in the surface of the water in a glass on top of a preamp, etc..." Of course, and more to the point, the glass of water can be used to "measure" how effective the isolation device under test is by, you know, seeing the difference in the amount of ripples in the surface of the water with and without isolation. This test will also demonstrate that seismic vibrations are obviously more powerful than the so-called induced vibrations that the component might produce. Hel-loo!
And earlier on this thread I wrote,
"Funny story. A friend of mine said watch this. He was sitting in a chair on the other side of the room from his stand with a CD player on the top. Next to the CD player was a glass of water. Next, he began tapping his knee with his finger very softly. Immediately ripples appeared on the surface of the water in the glass, synchronized with the tapping."
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dlcockrum
457 posts
11-06-2016 6:33pm
Hi Geoff,
Proud to have moved up to "Slick".
I’m all out of lysergic acid diethylamide. lol
I said I’ll tell you my name, you got to let me in
You can be the sinner and I’ll be the sin
I’ll take what I want and its easy to see I got everything
Everything
I’ll show you what I got
When you tell me what you need
So put ya money where ya mouth is
I’ll show you what I got
When you tell me what you need
So put your money where your mouth is
Come on, yeah
Show me
I’ll show you what I got
When you tell me what you need
So put your money where your mouth is
Watch out, watch out
I said yeah
I found this to be inspirational in this case.
Best to you Geoff,
Dave
Whoa! What?! |
Dlcockrum wrote,
"BTW- the Solid-Tech Discs of Silence arrived today. Removed one of the three springs in each of the four footers based on the weight of my Sony 5400ES player with the Svelte shelf and placed them underneath. Definitely an audible difference. I need more time to get a handle on it."
a difference for the better one assumes. Take your time.
|
dlcockrum
463 posts
11-08-2016 12:03am
Hi olechool and Geoff,
I don't think these are coming out of my system. Distortions have fled. More to come.
Welcome to the high end. |
theaudiotweak
1,404 posts
11-08-2016 1:17pm
A darker soundstage no doubt. Reduction in all polarities of shear instead of just one will give a change in spectral balance. What do you hear? Tom
damage control is apparently under way. Maybe time for the big guy to check in, this time with whatever it was he has been promising. I'm still on pins and needles, scout's honor.
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theaudiotweak
1,406 posts
11-08-2016 3:51pm
Should have clarfied the above with the additional words ..will reduce the amplitude of some frequencies of any device that rests on these "isolators"or others of the same type. Tom
Uh, hopefully the amplitude of some frequencies will be reduced. That’s kind of the whole point. ALL frequencies above the Fr of the isolating system will be reduced in amplitude. One assumes you’re referring to VIBRATION frequencies not AUDIO frequencies. Note to self: Why am I getting a bad feeling?
|
theaudiotweak
1,407 posts
11-08-2016 4:35pm
I am not getting thru..like in your stuff all polarities of shear are being reduced and as a result information is being reduced in the device.Your methods put a full nelson choke hold on any device whether active or passive. Tom
That has to the silliest thing I’ve ever heard. Where do you come up with this stuff? I’ve asked you at least twice to explain what you mean by "polarities of shear" but so far you only repeat the same mantra over and over again. If you cannot explain it find someone who can. |
theaudiotweak
1,408 posts
11-08-2016 5:02pm
Good ..I am happy you don’t get it. Tom
Huh? Get what? You haven't said anything. Other than talk in riddles. Tom, don’t you realize if I don’t get it the chances are very good noone else will get it, either? I’m not sure that’s really the image you guys want to project. This is all getting to look suspiciously like you and your company are the Gang that Couldn’t Shoot Straight. So much of what you both say, after you strip away the ATTITUDE, is very weak technically. I was under the distinct impression that you guys had something BIG in the way of explanation or rebuttal or some such thing. One assumes that was just posturing.
|
audiopoint
48 posts
11-08-2016 5:50pm
I have read where all the technology surrounding all of your products is kept secret and proprietary so if you ever applied for patents, you would surely understand the situation we are involved with and if not, too bad.
Secret and proprietary? Huh?! I have no idea where you got that from. As I’ve already pointed out, I have detailed explanations on my web site for many of my products, even the clock, Dark Matter, and the Teleportation Tweak and the Super Intelligent Chip. Hel-loo! Everybody has something to hide except for me and my monkey. Your memory might not be serving you well, I did tell one of the trolls I don't divulge how I develop certain products. That's probably what you're thinking of, not that my products are secret. Lol
|
audiopoint
49 posts
11-08-2016 7:20pm
So much name calling going on - I guess my memory is not serving me well. A mistake on my behalf therefore I do apologize.
I did write you in when casting my vote today but forgot to include the darn monkey.
Sorry to hear about your memory. If my memory serves it’s actually you who has been doing most of the name calling. In fact if I strip away the name calling and attitude and shilling of your products from the majority of your posts here there’s really not that much left. So that would make you a liar. A liar with a bad memory. If you can’t keep up with the discussion can I respectfully suggest you find someone who can?
|
Audiopoint wrote,
"Taking a measurement from the floor and the shelf is a “measurement”. Comparing two comparable scenarios where the tester changes one dependent variable and analyzes the results is “a test”. 88% reduction means nothing if you do not compare it to some second configuration. For all we know one could get the same “measurement” by placing the same equipment on the rack specified without the isolation pads or with a peanut butter sandwich… 88% reduction might be the normal. With the information provided in this “test”, you can’t argue with us. We simply do not know. You need to take TWO measurements and then analyze the difference (delta)."
Funny. 88% reduction at 20 Hz is NOT normal. You guys apparently still don’t understand isolation or what a low pass filter actually is. What is not mentioned in the report - but is obviously the case - is that at frequencies higher than 20 Hz the isolation effectiveness is even higher than 88%, for purposes of discussion circa 97% at 30 Hz and 99.5% at 40 Hz. Those number are fairly typical of ANY reasonably good mass-on-spring isolation device. Furthermore, it’s as obvious as the nose on your face that the 88% reduction was compared to the case without the isolation. You guys just can’t seem to catch a break. ;-)
|
agear OP
1,223 posts
11-10-2016 12:47am
Geoffkait:Funny. 88% reduction at 20 Hz is NOT normal. You guys apparently still don’t understand isolation or what a low pass filter actually is. What is not mentioned in the report - but is obviously the case - is that at frequencies higher than 20 Hz the isolation effectiveness is even higher than 88%, for purposes of discussion circa 97% at 30 Hz and 99.5% at 40 Hz. Those number are fairly typical of ANY reasonably good mass-on-spring isolation device. Furthermore, it’s as obvious as the nose on your face that the 88% reduction was compared to the case without the isolation. You guys just can’t seem to catch a break. ;-)
To which agear replied,
"Neither it seems can you. Where are your measurements Einstein or is this a skill set long forgotten in the fugue state of your "education"?"
Uh, the 88% reduction is the measurement, troll. As are the other percentages in the report. Besides, the isolation effectiveness for a given iso device of known Fr can be easily calculated (or estimated if you know what you're doing) for any frequency of interest. And the Fr for these spring type devices can be easily determined using the second hand of a watch. Hel-loo! Can I make a suggestion?: if you wish to be an effective troll go back to school. Speaking of which have you given further consideration to marching yourself back to UVa and demanding your money back?
Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
give me a stiff enough spring and I’ll isolate the world
|
agear OP 1,223 posts 11-10-2016 12:44am Are those NASA-spec springs I spy? http://www.solid-tech.net/products/discs-of-silence-4537455 Finally! Someone was smart enough to copy my original Nimbus Sub Hertz Isolation platform design; Nimbus used a single vertical air spring with a lateral support spring system - a series of small springs. The difference being the Nimbus used only ONE spring total, whereas other systems are forced (due to the technical difficulty of using one spring) to use multiple springs (to obtain sufficient lateral support) which raises Fr of the iso system. The best Fr achievable with multiple vertical springs is about 3 Hz. Which it’s bad, but it’s not anywhere near as good as 0.5 Hz. The reason 0.5 Hz is important is because the peak Earth crust motion is between 0 Hz and 2 Hz. That’s why the Nimbus Unipivot at 0.5 Hz Fr is still the best, even 20 years later. Hel-loo! Addendum: for speakers the Fr of the isolating device is not critical since the lowest frequency that needs to be isolated is what, 25 or 30 Hz? |
theaudiotweak
"The noise coming down and out from any component or any speaker is greater than the background noise coming up from the Earth toward that same component. Of course the component needs to be resting on a device like our Audiopoints which funnell energy away from the resting device and to a higher mass below. Our point shapes accomplish this feat of nature much like a venturi which speeds air flow or a nozzle on a fire hose. The increase pressure exiting from the tip will resist any energy trying to enter the the tip end. Our Audiopoints are not a spike and operate with simplicity of design and function. Tom Star Sound."
Stop shilling for a second and listen to what I said. Even Mapman said it. The ripples on the surface of the water in the glass on the top shelf are produced by seismic vibration, not vibration from the component. That’s why, when the component is isolated, the ripples vanish. Just because you guys have always ignored seismic vibration doesn’t make them go away.
|
theaudiotweak
1,413 posts
11-10-2016 12:03pm
I guess I was wrong to state you were wrong for just 20 years when it was more than 41 years. Tom
better read it again, slugger. You missed your calling. You should have been a comedian. |
theaudiotweak
1,412 posts
11-10-2016 10:49am
Wrong.. we will soon post a video. You have been wrong for more than 20 years.
You should get a medal to wear with a spring attached. Greater forces from above keeps the background noise out. Tom
I just checked. I haven't been wrong since 1975.
cheerios |
theaudiotweak
1,414 posts
11-10-2016 3:40pm
Like his comments on another thread that mentions our new Platter Ground for records. He has no clue how it works yet makes comparisons to other platter devices when in fact it is totally new and unique . The Platter Ground is a 21st century version of the original Audio Point specfic for use on vinyl. Tom Star Sound.
I was actually not referring to your product on the other thread scooter but thanks for the shameless plug, anyway. The platter may be 21st century but you remain firmly in the 20th century. |
mapman
13,945 posts
11-10-2016 3:14pm
Gk get your details correct. I said water will show vibrations. I did not say the source is seismic. Could be the gear itself, people walking on the floor, from speakers, nearby appliances. Whatever. These are all possible variables but each case is different. Only way to know is to try. Also just because vibrations are present does not mean the sound will be affected. The only way to know these things in each case is run tests and see and hear.
Huh? What I said was when you isolate the equipment you will see the ripples in the water disappear. That means that it actually is the seismic type vibration that’s producing the ripples. If you can’t see that it’s too bad. If you had been paying attention you would understand that by seismic vibrations I mean any type of low frequency vibration coming up from the floor. But not acoustic waves (airborne vibrations) or vibrations induced by the equipment, e.g., motors, transformers, whatever.
Footfall, Earth crust motion, ocean tidal forces, subways, traffic, speaker vibration feeding back to the electronics - all of those things I include in "seismic type vibrations." You may substitute the phrase "structureborne vibration" for "seismic type vibration" if you like. In any case, when you see the ripples in the glass of water disappear - now try to follow me here - that’s a sign that the problem is almost entirely the vibrations coming up from the floor, NOT the vibrations induced by the component or the airborne ones. Follow?
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mapman
"VIbrations are vibrations except some can be eliminated and some not. You have to identify the source and determine if can be removed or not. If so, remove it. If not, tehn do what one will to deal with it as needed.
We can agree on that. If teh source is the earth’s seismic activity, it is what it is and one can determine whether they need care or not."
Sorry, but IMHO that’s quite an oversimplification of what this particular thread is really all about. I don’t agree that we should be so dismissive.
Let’s summarize, shall we? We have two points of view - one that ignores seismic type vibrations and claims the only source of vibration that matters to the sound is the induced vibration from the component, including vibration resulting from the mechanical acoustic waves striking the component. The other side of the argument, I.e., your humble scribe, is that all vibration is BAD for the sound, *especially low frequency structureborne vibration. The simple glass of water experiment perfectly demonstrates how powerful the seismic type vibrations actually are. Yet, I also address induced vibration in my designs and philosophy. See the difference? Of course anyone is free to ignore anything. I just happen to think that's uh, ignorant.
So, actually it’s not helpful to the discussion nor does it move the discussion forward to use expressions like, "vibration is vibration" or "it is what it is." Obviously there are folks who don’t consider everything or try to fix the numerous problems we know exist in high end audio. But hiding one’s head in the sand is not really a smart option IMHO. Are we supposed to be contented cows?
If seismic vibration is actually not an issue for high end audio how come at least 10,000 audiophiles have bought Vibraplane isolation stands? It’s not logical, Captain.
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mapman
"gk your recall and logic are both flawed. You collect your facts selectively and draw conclusions as you see fit.
My position is on the record. Not expecting your endorsement.
Mapman out."
Not expecting my endorsement? I don’t even know what the heck you’re talking about.
Geoffkait over and out
|
Heavens to Mergatroid! Was there was a high level troll meeting and I wasn’t invited? What’s up with that? |
Class, come to order! As much as I dislike being contradictory seismic noise actually encompasses all of the various types of very low frequency, low frequency and higher frequency vibration that can be transmitted via the floor or any other building structure.
Thus, seismic noise producers include - but are not lmited to - earth crust motion, other earth vibration, wind, footfall, traffic, subway, ocean wave action, local construction, large fans and speaker feedback. Thus, seismic frequencies should be considered to be primarily in the range 0 Hz to 30 Hz but extending also to higher frequencies. Which is why the Townshend isolation data showed 88% and 97% or whatever isolation effectiveness at 20 Hz and higher frequencies like 150 Hz. Hel-loo! |
Oleic hooligans,
Good for you! You’re not a troll. Before you get your knickers in a bunch, however, you must have been snoozing when I relented and agreed to let you purchase something. But that was some time ago and my offer has since expired. Here we are back at square 1.
In case you hadn’t noticed this thread is actually about the technical end of things, not the sound. Nothing wrong with arguing about sound but it’s subjective. What sounds low in distortion to you most likely sounds rather distorted to me. Not only that but audiophiles have been known to puff up their listening impressions on occasion. I know, say it isn’t so!! |
The audio weak,
Speaker feedback is not a problem only if the audio engineer is smart enough to employ isolation. Otherwise some feedback is inevitable.
The video you provided shows how someone can perform the water in the glass experiment incorrectly, although I have to confess I didn’t think that was actually possible. The lemon, ice and stirrer damp the vibrations that might otherwise appear and the glass should be filled to the brim since the ripples appear in the surface of the water. It’s not rocket science. At least you tried. Lol
helpful hint: the ripples that appear on the surface are a little subtle, it’s not like water is sloshing around in there although someone might be sloshed.
|
Theaudiotweak,
Since you seem to be extremely enamored of the phrase polarities of shear and for some bizarre reason I haven’t figured out yet it probably time that I pointed out that earth crust motion - the seismic wave that travels along the surface of the Earth - has nothing whatsoever to do with polarities of shear or p waves or s waves, all of which are manifestations of vibrations produced deep in the earth, by the body of the earth as it were. If you guys had resisted the urge to defend yourselves and had consulted the seismologist, assuming she hasn't long thrown up her hands in frustration and left for greener pastures or, even better, had gotten her to discuss these technical aspects right here on this thread you wouldn’t seem so uh, clueless. The wave that travels along the surface of the earth has six directions of motion as I’ve already explained. Like your benefactor Micheal Green you guys are still, amazingly, hypnotized by the idea that vibration of any kind can be good for the sound.
Whereas you guys and your benefactor wish to allow vibrations to roam free - unrestrained, undamped and unisolated - I say the only good vibration is a dead vibration! |
A gear. That just shows you how much you know. They're not mattress Springs, they're Springs out of wiley coyote shoes I get off eBay. Since you actually have nothing to contribute to your own thread I'm left with the distinct impression the only thing they taught you at the college at UVa is how to drink.
|
Stanwal wrote,
"All isolation devices sound different."
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. And there are perfectly good reasons why they all sound different - as I’ve also been saying. The reasons are:
Isolation devices vary widely in terms of directions of isolation addressed and resonant frequency of the device, the latter dictating the effectiveness of isolation, as I just got through explaining a couple of posts ago.
Also, since seismic noise varies all over the place depending on geographic location, traffic and other factors one cannot really expect any isolation device to work the same everywhere or for every system. This is why I stated early in this thread that measurements for isolation are a bit pointless. Since you cannot generalize results.
Furthermore, many devices marketed as isolation devices are actually either coupling devices or resonators. Thus the statement that all isolation devices sound different can actually be viewed as an excellent example of a strawman argument.
Finally. Most audiophiles continually change their systems so it's a moving train and no one should expect his sound to remain constant for very long. Thus attempts to compare isolation devices or ANY class of audio device or cable might be fruitless. |
The audio tweak, wouldn’t it have been a whole lot easier if she took a plane? Maybe you’re not paying her enough. But it’s none of my business, I know. Besides if she agrees with you you’re in a world of hurt. Did she ignore seismic vibration for 30 years like you guys? I’d scout around for a new seismologist if I were you.
Respectfully, Geoff Kait
Have a nice day |
theaudiotweak
She received her masters of Geophysical Engineering almost 40 years ago.
She has authored and presented 14 papers on different aspects of interpretation and understanding compressional waves to the Society of Exploration Geophysicists (SEG) International meetings, European Association of Exploration Geophysicists (EAEG) meetings, Australian Association of Exploration Geophysicists (ASEG) meetings, SEG Summer Research Workshop and to SEG chapter meetings. Many of these papers were invited and some were awarded best paper. In addition, she taught a three-day course on seismic interpretation requested by the SEG. She has also worked as a Geotechnical Engineer in the housing industry.
Recently she discovered the largest ever deposit of helium gas in North America ..well except for you, Your Highness.
Have a wonderful day, Tom
There’s really no need to call me Your Highness, although it does have a nice ring to it.
I guess you might have been taking your nap when I pointed out on this thread much to Mapman’s dismay that trying to win an argument by bringing up credentials is nothing more than everyone’s favorite logical fallacy, the Appeal to Authority. Didn’t you consult with your seismologist that p wave and s waves have nothing at all to do with the Earth crust motion I’ve been referring to? You know, the things you’ve been ranting about incoherently for the past month. LOL
The funniest comment today by far, when you quoted fhe seismologist who saw your video of the martini glass with no sloshing around, "That’s what I would expect from your products." Please, spare me! Did you explain to her you’ve been ignoring seismic vibration for thirty years? LOL
I've discovered the largest deposit of natural gas in North America. It's right here on this thread!
have a nice day
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mapman
"It’ll be a cold day in hell that gk succumbs to that appeal to authority deal." 😉
Thus spake the geologist. Who, according to my calculations, has zero to say on the subject. I’m guessing seismology wasn’t his major.
Mapman thinks for a minute, then pulls the trigger,
"Btw im guessing seismic vibrations/waves to her and geologists in general infer those where the earths plate tectonics are the source. Not including man made sources."
That’s fascinating. You thought of that all by yourself?
Then, perhaps against his better judgement, Mapman pulls the trigger again,
"Just saying. As it relates to hifi what matters mainly is whether the source can be identified and controlled or eliminated if needed. But it can’t hurt to all be speaking the same language."
Whatever. 😩
|
randy-11
is this thread now about turntables
no
|
It was back in Nov 1995 in Stereophile magazine that Shannon Dickson published "Bad Vibes" - the landmark article on vibration isolation and also the Vibraplane iso stand that had recently come out. IIRC there were then only two isolation stands in high end audio - Vibraplane and Sesimic Sink from Townshend in UK. I debuted my six degree of freedom Nimbus Sub Hertz platform with Mapleshade at CES Jan 1997. A feature of Nimbus was actually provided by Shannon Dickson. Even back then the Nimbus featured a single air spring of correct geometry, the world’s best air spring, an axillary air canister, and cryogenically treated steel rods that supported steel ballast below decks. I later introduced Promethean Base, a steel spring based ISO stand at CES 2000 and 2001 followed by much smaller cryo’d high carbon steel springs, Cryo Baby Prometheans. Now I have small cryo’d springs for every load from 1 lb to 300 lb. My Super Stiff Spings are for really heavy loads like large turntables and amps and subwoofers. Since cost is NOT an issue for my springs, we’re practically GIVING them away, ALL COMPONENTS in the system can be isolated at LOW COST - and since the springs are very low profile (about an inch high compressed) they have outstanding lateral support. THUS in most cases they can be placed DIRECTLY under components. I recently introduced the Bio Mikro G "Woody the Woodpecker" isolation stand that is not a spring-based ISO stand. I have constructed a dual layer ISO stand, a trick I learned from LIGO. Dual mass-spring layer devices are very tricky and not for the timid or young. Ironically my small springs yield the same resonant frequency as the Vibraplane, about 3 Hz. Full text of Shannon Dickson’s Bad Vibes at, http://www.stereophile.com/reference/52/Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica advanced audio concepts |
"The combination of roller bearings and either metal or air springs (which decouple in the vertical plane, providing isolation) provide isolation in all three axis down to perhaps 3Hz, about as good as you can do outside of the $2000-$3000 Newport and MinusK tables, and the Townshend Seismic Pods at about half that. I’ll let Geoff speak in behalf of his own springs!" to which agear replied, "Based on what measurements? Geoff does not have any actual data (or customer feedback). Do you?" Geez, agear, there you go again! The same old demands for measurements. Knock yourself out. By the way, I have tons of feedback right here on Audiogon, not to mention my own website. Duh! http://www.resfreq.com/images/BODY-WAVE-TRANSMISSION-REDUCTION-with-Appendices.pdfLink to customer comments on my website, http://machinadynamica.com/machina11.htmY'all have a nice day Geoff Kait Machina Dynamica Advanced Audio Concepts |
Measuring the performance of any spring based iso devices is not rocket science folks. All you need is a second hand on a watch. Then manually set the iso device into motion. And time the number of cycles per second and you have the resonant frequency Fr in cycles per second, or Hz. Then the isolation effectiveness of the device for any structureborne frequency is only a calculation away. |
theaudiotweak
1,424 posts
11-15-2016 12:04pm
How can interfering energy from within escape your bandpass filters ? Is the filter decay time faster in one direction than the other?
What the ding dong are you talking about? I've already explained to you numerous times it's not a bandpass filter. You guys need to get your act together big time. Have you no shame?
Have a a nice day
|
Robert, why not give it a rest? I have already been through all of your so-called arguments, demands for proof, diatribes, dismissals and shilling with your former buddy. Like him you cannot actually generate a technical attack because well, quite frankly you’re not technical, not in the slightest. Like him it always comes down to its either your way or the highway. I personally find your diatribes repetitive, uneducated, and self serving to the extreme. They simply attack your competitors and pump up your own products. Maybe it’s time to call this thread DONE and stick a fork in it.
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theaudiotweak
1,427 posts
11-15-2016 3:58pm
Isolate your musical instrument in Carnegie Hall and hope to hear whats removed.. No ripples in our You Tube video in a night club in the middle of New York City and all of its non interference at least when using our non isolating designs. Tom
Give me me a couple days to figure out what the heck you’re even talking about and I’ll get back to you. My fear is that like Michael Green, you guys are laboring under the false assumption that audio systems are completely analogous to musical instruments. That straw man argument has gotten you into deep Kim chi. I’ve always said that one must not only isolate the component but also evacuate any residual vibration.
The only good vibration is a dead vibration. - Shannon Dickson.
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theaudiotweak
1,427 posts
11-15-2016 1:42pm
Your Highness please explain how springs selected at 3hz or 5hz or any frequency that doesn"t hurt ours..why are they not a bandpass filter. Tom
Sorry, Tom, you question doesn't even make sense. I've already explained why ISO devices are low pass filters. Are you really that dense or are you just pretending to be dense? |
Audiopoint wrote,
"One last time, so I’ll make it short and then I walk away…but really did you ever consider looking in a mirror before you insult everyone including people with credentials that far exceed anything you have ever accomplished in life? You have zero respect for anyone and you do know that music represents everything your are not?
Kait picks on another poster’s opinion: In case you hadn’t noticed this thread is actually about the technical end of things, not the sound. Nothing wrong with arguing about sound but it’s subjective. That sums it all up right there… a technical writer who manufactures products for the sound industry based on theorems and specifications and does not reference or listen to amplifiers and loudspeakers. Musical quality is subjective and likewise so is every theorem surrounding vibration management in audio including “isolation and springs”.
One last time? You’ll make it short? Whoa! Hey! Say it isn’t so! 😥
I’m afraid Michael Green must have done a Vulcan mind meld on you as you use the same empty and puerile argument style he does. I’d recognize that jejune, sophomoric attitude and debate ability anywhere. You'll huff and you'll puff and blow my house down. Lol
Have a a nice hair day
Geoff Kait
machina dramatica
|
theaudiotweak
1,428 posts
11-16-2016 9:41am
"Analogous how? Like to microscopes and LIGO and Earth and city noise are to your stuff when used in a live music venue or with real instruments that vibrate as a function of how they operate and we perceive them. That would sound like a pile of mud with your stuff...."
Uh, microscopes and Ligo are examples of why isolation is important. Otherwise you couldn’t see the slide under the microscope clearly or detect gravity waves. I never said it proves anything about audio. But it IS evidence. None so blind that will not see.
Whoa! Let’s not get carried away. I’m sure you have never tried to isolate anything in your life and that you are just grasping at straws. You ignore isolation. Remember? Isolation improves dynamics. But how would you know? You ignore it. Remember?
then Theaudiotweak wrote,
"We test our design concepts with real live instruments and musicians. Have you ever even thought of such a concept and how your designs will crush dynamics of real instruments?
My designs improve dynamics. Quite dramatically actually. Thanks for asking.
then Theaudiotweak wrote,
"My designs are used in Carnegie Hall and in the Gewandhausorchestra, Leipzig, Germany (founded in 1743, named in 1781 for its first home – Gewandhaus)
Did someone sneeze?
Then theaudiotweak wrote,
"Some players have removed the decoupling carbon fiber endpins from their instruments and replaced them with endpins that extract the most energy from their cello and bass via the concept of direct mechanical coupling. That is only one of our test methods..how it really sounds.. What a concept."
Good for you! Don’t strain your arm patting yourself on the back. What’s that have to do with audiophiles?
PS what about the spring bandpass filter question I asked earlier?
You’re kidding, right?
|
Theaudiotweak wrote,
"You have been wrong for over 41 years..Tom"
You’re very confused. As well as a slow learner. With 3 small springs I can double the dynamic range.
|
theaudiotweak
1,430 posts
11-16-2016 12:33pm
Stalemate Kait asks, What do instruments have to do with audiophiles?
I had to put my eyes back in my head after reading that one.
We are just proving to the World that our new technology provides operational efficiency for any application. We have products for Hi-Fi gear, structural environments and musical instruments.
Amazing how you can never relate to music or sound. You should tout your wares on the Popular Mechanics website and get out of audio or unlock a new page in life and open your ears instead of your mouth.
Now that’s a brilliant concept!
Tom
Could your posts get any more silly and sophomoric? Just because you say you have products for musical instruments and for audio doesn’t mean that musical instruments behave like audio components. Another example of the MG Mind Meld in action. I realize you guys probably thInk you have a great marketing scheme that audiophiles will lap right up. Heck, it's not even your marketing scheme, it's Michael's.
Because I’m in a good mood I’ll even explain why your great theory is bogus. It’s because musical instruments don’t have electron tubes, wires, microchips, circuit boards, you know, things that distort the audio signal, the electromagnetic wave, when they vibrate. Unlike most musical instruments audio components should not resonate. If you like I can recommend a good shrink or deprogrammer to try to undo all the damage done. We see this type of thing a lot in cults. The Branch Davidians spring to mind.
Can’t relate to music or sound? Are you crazy? All of my products are designed to improve the sound. I must relate just a little bit to music and sound. Besides, many of my products improve the sound of musical instruments, real musical instruments. Bet you’re not laughing now.
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Theaudiotweak asks me for the umpteenth time to explain why springs are not bandpass filters.
Geoffkait: "You're kidding, right?"
Theaudiotweak then replied, "Nope."
God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason.
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Agear wrote,
"Please explain how springs double dynamic range"
Oh, a slow pitch, eh? Springs double the dynamic range the same way they double the S/N ratio. By decreasing mechanical noise sufficiently. Noise, you know, the denominator of the term S/N. So it would be fair to say springs can double the dynamics and the resolution. Follow?
Dare I go one step further and say by reducing mechanical vibration for the CD player the (analog) optical reading process is improved significantly, thereby greatly improving the digital signal downstream?
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agear OP
1,234 posts
11-17-2016 6:37pm
Oh, a slow pitch, eh? Springs double the dynamic range the same way they double the S/N ratio. By decreasing mechanical noise sufficiently. Noise, you know, the denominator of the term S/N. So it would be fair to say springs can double the dynamics and the resolution. Follow?
Dare I go one step further and say by reducing mechanical vibration for the CD player the (analog) optical reading process is improved significantly, thereby greatly improving the digital signal downstream?
Nonsense. What E-school did you theoretically attend again?
Since your so called education - what was it again, flowers or something? - seems to have omitted any electronics or physics I suggest you should probably keep your yap shut, you know, since when you open it, it removes all doubt as to whether or not you’re a fool. There can be no doubt about your motives, however.
tootles
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Agear wrote,
"One of my motivations for this thread was a theoretical basis for the effect on electronics and why. There is little to no data to be found. Just lots of woo woo and strong pseudo-scientific opinions. That does not mean the answer cannot be found or that their application is not valid....."
Uh, at least two examples of measurements for vibration isolation devices were already provided. Not to mention the landmark physical and theoretical treatise on vibration isolation - as it relates to audio - published in Stereophile magazine more than 20 years ago. Hel-loo! By the way, I really like the way you sneaked the word "theoretical" in there, as if you knew anything about the theoretical physics, or any physics for that matter, involved. Do you label Everything you don’t understand you label woo or pseudo-science?
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mapman
13,971 posts
11-18-2016 9:58am
That from the king of woo and pseudo-science.
Uh, wouldn’t that make you the queen? Besides, didn't you just use that line last week? Running out of ammo, Moops?
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agear OP
"The sky is the limit at Imagination U. What you posted earlier from some crusty folks at Stereophile can hardly be labelled a treatise."
Suit yourself. Crusty folks? He was younger than you. More importantly, he grasped the whole concept of isolation. Bet you a cuppa coffee you didn’t even read it. Or couldn’t.
Agear thinks hard, pulls the trigger,
"Again, show me the the measurements whey a spring doubles dynamic range. Stop babbling and cough up some actual data."
That’s getting to be your calling card, the demand for data. Funny when it comes from someone who obviously doesn’t .understand data. Maybe you and Moopman can commiserate over a couple of beers.
An ordinary man has no means of deliverance. - old audiophile axiom
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Geoffkait: who was actually addressing agear, "That’s getting to be your calling card, the demand for data. Funny when it comes from someone who obviously doesn’t understand data. Or even the concept. Maybe you and Moopman can commiserate over a couple of beers."
Mapman thinks for a second, hesitates, then pulls the trigger,
"Its so funny how you actually believe your pseudoscience ramblings have any importance. Never saw anyone waste so many words over nothing."
Thus spake Rockman. Who will reach the magic number 14,000 posts very soon. More humor from what one assumes is he engineer's side of Mapman's brain. Foshizzel ma Nizzle.
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