Do Dealers think it is sinful..........

After reading this thread I couldn’t believe the ignorance, short sightedness and general whining by those of you who expect automatic discounts. Correct me if I am wrong, but it looks to me like you are saying: a) Dealers should provide a discount regardless of your patronage b) Dealers don’t really need to stock the gear – we don’t want to pay for this service, we can buy gear without listening to it – via reviews & product availability on the internet c) Price is more important than good sound & good service Do you like being able to go visit a local dealer and listen to the gear he stocks? Do you want your local dealer to stay in business? Do you want your gear to hold the majority of its value? Do you want to continue to have the opportunity to buy innovative products from smaller companies who are only able to produce limited quantities? Well, if any of the answers are yes, you’d best reexamine your conclusions. …Keep focusing on meaningless discounts and your choices will become even more limited than they currently are. Do any of you have a clue of what the average margin is in “high-end” audio retail? Do any of you know what the margins are on “expensive” low volume/high end stuff or are you simply speaking out of ignorance? I know I’m stating the obvious here, but these aren’t commodities we’re buying and selling folks… no pork bellies, timber, oil or computers. We’re talking about spending hundreds, and in many cases thousands of dollars on luxury items. As audiophiles/audio enthusiasts we believe that there are differences in sound and in most cases we are willing to pay in order to acquire these differences. When you buy from a dealer you should be getting something for your money – experience, help, insight, and someone who will take care of you and any problems, needs or warranty issues you might run into. If you don’t value these, then good luck to you. If your dealer doesn’t offer these benefits to you then go somewhere else – why are you still giving him your business? If your local dealer isn’t giving you adequate service contact his supplier(s) – they should certainly care! …If they don’t care be glad that you found out, sell any gear of theirs that you own and buy from reputable people. Any product is only as good as the people in the company behind it. In-home auditioning Listening to new components at home before you buy is only reasonable and logical. Home auditions should be an obligatory courtesy afforded prospective customers. If a manufacturer or dealer doesn’t allow and encourage in-home auditions they must surely expect the customer to make an uneducated purchase. Theoretically, this would undermine the entire existence of their businesses. The very products they sell/manufacture evidence the simple truth they believe that NO TWO audio products/experiences are identical. How many of you (Audigon members) would you buy a car without being able to test drive the model on REAL roads? It seems to me that listening to any component or system in a dealer’s showroom is analogous to a virtual test drive. Sorry for the digression :-) It seems to me that this site’s intent is to bring audio enthusiasts together in a forum that allows us to become aware of new products, communicate our experiences and YES to sell and get deal’s on gear. But isn’t the real idea to help maximize audio enjoyment? I too like a good deal, and I don’t believe in paying for services that I do not or cannot get. But I believe that to focus SO much on price is unhealthy for our hobby. I hope that your enjoyment isn’t sullied by the fact that you couldn’t get a couple percent off of the gear you bought. Happy holidays all!

Question: Does anyone know how to get space between paragraphs when responding to this forum? My entire rant was squished into one long paragraph. :)

Avnut: I think you're already ahead of the game by not buying from that local dealer. What a fool! I'd love to be doing so well (in my line of work) that I could simply let 27k walk out the door. You should contact Classe. See if they don’t have a local sales rep. If there is the rep may even arrange an audition for you – the do work on commission after all. I'd be very surprised if Classe just let you go, especially if you mention all of the responses on this forum. Cheers!

Avnut: You said that you agree 75%, but I would say that I agree with your last post 100%. I hope you get the good service you deserve. Cornfedboy: Are you buying your Audio equipment in the former Soviet Union? …If not, why are you paying 40-70% margin? Do you know the difference between markup and margin? If your numbers were correct dealers would be marking up goods 67% to roughly 234% - that’s a huge range. How many dealers would you say charge 2&1/3 times their costs? I’d suggest that 67% would be the high end of the spectrum (except for cables, IC’s and PC’s). You must be thinking of markup or manufacture margin. I would suggest that the only products with high margins are cables & tweaks. With regard to your question: Have I ever bought Hi end gear? Does your sarcasm imply that one must spend “X” dollars or have owned brand “X” to have a perspective? Maybe you’d feel better if I listed all of my equipment & how much I paid for each piece? You could evaluate my purchases and inform me if I’d spent enough or own equipment prestigious enough for you to respect my opinion. To give you a baseline I wasn’t talking about 100k+ systems. …More like the equivalent of Stereophile A and or B rated gear. ...I think we all are aware that as price rises margin falls, even on 20-30K systems. I’m not against discounts. If you are like me, and buy new toys to upgrade your system every month chances are you get a significant discount already. I merely take issue with folks who seem to believe they should get a discount for no other reason than that they have a pulse. I’ve got nothing against buying and selling used items online, however I see a lot of what I believe to be gray-market sleazing going on, and THAT does bother me. Dealers and manufacturers that whore their goods devalue all of our “investments”. The only thing that should cause rapid depreciation is significant technological advances or wear. But despite the lack of technological breakthrough and very low wear to gear we still see average 40-50% deprecation.

Kendall43 What makes you believe that you are getting 25% off? Does the dealer show you his invoices, his mark up, and then give you 25% off? ...If so, is this guy a family member and what is his name? I’m sure we’d all like to get 25% off for nuthin!
Please consider that if you really are getting 25% off across the board you are probably seeing this discount off of a higher sticker price than the market standard(s). As stated previously in this thread 25% off on cables or tweaks isn't unrealistic, but 25% discounts across the board would seem very unusual if not unbelievable. There is at least one exception to this, and that's dealer demos. Dealers often get demo units at 25-35% below cost, but this usually only happens once a year, and is limited to one unit per model per product line. These products can definitely be discounted – even below what would normally be “cost” in some cases. Unfortunately there are some folks on this site who believe that once a product sells for a low-ball amount that THIS is the benchmark. Demo & or refurbished product also need to be considered when discounted prices are bandied about.

Hey Dustych! Thanks for the formatting info. It worked as prescribed.