Ditch your USB cable for Toslink? Might surprise you!

@lordmelton From their mainpage, click on the "Audiophile" menu and they are listed towards the bottom of the dropdown. I agree on I2s output, seems like that is an emerging interface with a lot of potential. 

It'd sure be nice if all this was more standardized. Like: INTERFACE A is entry level, INTERFACE B is the next step....and so forth. But we all know that's a pipe dream. Way too many variables in the mix.

@lordmelton Right! It makes me want to try some of their power and analog cables as well. Their USB cables always seem to be in the mix of cable discussions too. Audio Envy is another company that intrigues me, so many great choices out there. 

Digital cables most certainly do matter, I figured they did but never imagined how much. I was dead wrong!

@lordmelton Thanks for the link, I think I'd stumbled on their converters during my research of this. While my Chord dac doesn't support I2s directly, here is a quote from Rob Watts himself. As ALWAYS, the devil is in the details, and the manufacturer's implementation trumps all. 

"Yes traditional SPDIF receivers are not good at recovering the SPDIF and creating a clock, as they rely on an analogue PLL - and the data itself modulates the clock, so you get signal correlated jitter which is extremely audible. But my SPDIF receiver is all digital, and relies upon the low jitter local clock, and does not create signal correlated jitter. The SPDIF receiver creates I2S data, with zero signal correlated jitter; plus a word clock, exactly as if it was transmitted via a real I2S connection.
But, the word clock - whether from a direct I2S or SPDIF, still will have source jitter. And this must be eliminated - and that is the job of my DPLL, which completely eliminates any source jitter. So there is absolutely no benefit in using I2S".

So who the heck knows? I'd imagine every decent dac has a similar SP/DIF implementation as Chord. What did steer me in my direction was simplicity. One cable, no extra boxes with more power supplies (perhaps even benefitting from LPS). It can get crazy pretty quick, this set up from Audiowise really started to point me to fiber: Audiowise SRC-DX

Well I wouldn't say it's evil, just that there may be advantages to other connections in some systems, and a necessity in others. The Bermuda Triangle weirdness I mentioned earlier was a MacBook Pro running wireless and on battery that made a horrendous noise connected to an Arcam irDac via usb, music didn't even have to be playing. Sounded like a ground loop on steroids. How is that even possible? But an optical cable made the problem go away. 

@carlsbad In my case the only streamer output is usb, so I had no choice but to try a converter if I was going to use a different input on the dac. Ideally it would have been toslink out > fiber > toslink in. I do however think there is potential with some of these decrapifiers, reclockers or converters. In theory a flawed signal goes in and a newly minted "perfect" signal goes out. You could very well be right though.

My only point is, I like many audiophiles, tend to snub our noses at toslink. What I'm hearing now has really changed my opinion of that. Honestly I didn't think it was capable of this high a level of performance. Most streamers and dacs already have the connections, if yours does I'd give it a try. Digital audio is like a box of chocolates so maybe you'll like it in your system, maybe you won't. Mine is staying.

@antigrunge2 Not being argumentative, strictly out of curiosity, but why do you think a well implemented USB setup is superior....higher bandwidth potential?

I thought the same thing until recently too, but I can't ignore the results I'm getting now. I really think this is very much system dependent, much like the balanced vs unbalanced cable debate. I certainly don't think Toslink is the end all interface. 

It's also interesting that the highly regarded Berkeley dacs don't even have USB as an input option. They do sell a $2,000 outboard USB to AES or SP/DIF converter though, and Innuos has their PhoenixUSB reclocker at $3,500 .....YIKES. 

The deeper I dig into all this, the more I realize how much I don't know. 🤔

@sns  I've been very clear that I don't think Toslink is or should be the end all digital connection. What I am asserting is:

1. Optical has at least the potential of avoiding 100% EMI/RFI, ground loops, magnetic and any other forms of interference. No matter how careful we try to be, take a look behind your rack and see if any problems could exist.
2. Toslink MAY surprise you with its sound quality. Again, I always assumed it to be subpar. I was pleasantly surprised.
3. Your system may or may not benefit and will most certainly be system dependent. The fiber transceivers and SP/DIF clocking implementation would certainly have to be up to snuff.

By your points, all but a select few products have nailed USB down to perfection, so wouldn't it be foolish not to try a different connection means? Especially if you have or are thinking of trying the band aids as you so accurately put it.

@koestner 

I talked to DH Labs and they said as far as USB cables go it doesn't matter, they recommend keeping them short as possible. 

I've got a .5M Wireworld Supernova 7 Toslink coming in tomorrow to try out. I just like the idea of the stranded borosilicate glass vs the plastic. 

You're welcome to try my 1M Audioquest Cinnamon, just pay shipping.

Yeah that's the one I have, got an excellent open box deal online for $170. Yet when I got it, the box was still sealed. It's a hefty little beast and I also assumed the Aurender sound quality when I purchased.

I was originally thinking of trying coax with this device, the UC100.

Aurender UC100

I'll have to check out this video, I've also read quite a few USB shootout reviews and I find them very interesting and informative.

So for the second time this week I get delivery on an open box bargain...that's brand new. 👍 The Wireworld Supernova 7 stranded glass Toslink cable sounds stunning compared to the Audioquest Cinnamon. Anyone reading this could pick out the difference in a blind test 100% of the time.

My expectation bias on this was low but I'd read very positive reviews, found a "open box" deal at Music Direct and said why not try it. So not only do we have the "it's just 1's and 0's thing...it's also just light. How the heck this thing can sound so different is beyond me but it's made a bigger difference than any other cable change I've tried, analog or digital. 

It's funny how when I have big expectations of new equipment/cables, I'm usually disappointed. And the opposite when I don't expect much. 

I didn't mean to preach to the choir 🤐 I have read some pretty outrageous things from naysayers on this site though...especially regarding potential gains with optical cables.