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Disappointed w/ Klipsch Heresy III. Now what?

I'd be very grateful for some help with a quandary.

I recently replaced my Ohm Walsh 1000 speakers with Heresy III speakers, running two-channel from a Rega Brio. I was pretty excited about the Heresy IIIs based on reviews — they were efficient, so my 35-watt amp would get the job done; they were supposed to have real punch in the low mid-range, so I could hear the upright bass clearly; they reportedly had excellent imaging; and best of all, they were supposed to sound great at low volumes. They are also indisputably beautiful, which was an important factor for my wife. (The Ohms are elegant, but you have to be an audio lover to see their beauty.)

I set them up, and . . . not so bad, pretty good. Especially loud. In fact the louder the better. Crank them up and they sing. But loud is not really an option with a new baby. So how do they sound quiet? They sound like the band is trapped in shoe box. Really in two shoe boxes because the L and R don't merge that well. The sound stage is tiny. All the detail is gone, the joy is gone. They are no fun at all. Music just seems like a bunch of noise.

But I want to believe! I want to make these speakers work. So I am faced with a quandary. I could:

1. Buy stands, a subwoofer and a tube amp, all of which people in various forums have recommended to improve the various failings I hear now.

2. Replace the Rega with something much more powerful and pull the Ohms out of the closet. (Suboptimal because it will make my wife sad because of the aforementioned perceived ugliness.)

3. Just start all over again. Different amp, different speakers.

I'd kind of prefer number 1. But I don't want to end up with a bunch of stuff designed to solve a problem and then not have that problem solved! (And I'd also just as soon avoid getting a subwoofer.)

Final note. Positioning is an intractable nightmare. It is the one thing that I can't really change, because of how our living room is layed out. It is obviously a big problem though. The living room is a big rectangle, 18 x 40 feet, and the speakers are near the corners of the 18-foot ends, on either side of a couch. I can move them around — closer or further from the couch, closer or further from the wall. But I can't raise them above the height of the couch or move them out in front or over to another wall. That discussion went nowhere!

What should I do?

 



brooklynluke

Showing 13 responses by brooklynluke

brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
Thanks for tips! Alas, the cables are in the walls — again for WAF — run with standard Monoprice 2747 12 gauge. I don't think I can change them. No argument about headphones! But the ideal scenario is that we are all hanging out together, listening to music, talking about things, watching the baby etc. A shared experience!
brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
Oh, and as for break-in, I'm at maybe 100 hours? That seems like it should be enough to get a sense of where things are headed no?
brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
. . . and Dweller, I wish I had known about the Forte IIIs when I got the Heresys! But trading — selling, shipping, etc. — is a big project that I definitely want to avoid if I can.

I am definitely interested in getting McIntosh. What model would you recommend? The Quicksilver Horn Monos look very interesting.

brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
Yogiboy, good point about horn speakers. All of the descriptions of how they sound *seem* like a sound I would like! And when they are loud, I like them quite a lot! It's just hard to know.

tls49, good tips! On risers: I was thinking about getting some stands made that raise them up about 8 inches. (Any higher and we run into the aforementioned WAF challenge.) That would decouple them from the floor, which would lead to less bass but — so I understand — would also clear up the congested mid range and help with imaging. I was thinking of trying the experiment by raising them up with 8 inch stacks of coffee table books, though that may not be a comparable situation to a stand.

I will bring them closer to the front of the couch as soon as I get home! And it sounds like no matter what I should spend a little time with them just to see how things go. What do you think about getting a subwoofer or tube amp? Assuming each was properly matched and of high quality, which would do the most to improve things?
brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
Atmasphere, this very helpful! "Harsh" is definitely the right word. On placement, my options are limited. The couch is flat against the back wall, so it creates basically two cubbyholes, one on each side. The couch is about 9 feet wide and 2.5 feet deep centered on an 18 foot wall. That means the cubbyholes are 2.5 feet deep and 4.5 feet wide (and, for the record, 30 inches high). Right now the speakers are positioned about a foot away from the couch on each side — that is, ten feet apart — and back about six inches from the front of the couch, and toed in significantly, so I can see down the horns from my listening chair, which is maybe 8 feet from the front of the couch. I've moved them around with some improvements, but nothing major. Would an even wider spread help?

Also, I am thinking about having some stands made by Deer Creek Audio that would raise the speakers by eight inches. (So their height is equal to the height of the couch.) Any higher and I run into WAF. Worth the bother?

Islandman, when you say "moving them one third" which direction do you have in mind. I will try it! Also, on amps, one reason I got the Heresys is that I love the way old systems sound. There is a kind of jukebox heft and authority to them. The music, especially the bass, is thick, tactile but there is also a clear sense of fine detail and depth. Is class D worth considering from that perspective?

Brownsfan, you may well be right. I had thought (from the descriptions) that horns were just the ticket, but I don't have any special allegiance to them other than that I now I own a beautiful pair of horn speakers! Experimenting sure is a lot of hassle though. Sigh.

Also, and I know this is a whole different kettle of fish, but: What would be the right tube amp? This is for dedicated two-channel — though I am also open to a subwoofer — listening to jazz, classic rock, acoustic music, country, indie, etc. but mostly jazz. I personally would like to get a vintage integrated, so I could have tone controls, plus I just love them from when I was a kid. But I'd be just as happy to get a Chinese tube amp if it sounds great. Trying to keep it under $2,000 and cheaper is even better.

Oh, and . . . what about that subwoofer?

I am grateful for suggestions from all!



brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
tls49, you put your finger exactly on my nightmare. The situation is just as you describe, but moving the speakers in front of the couch is not an option, for aforementioned WAF reasons. One advantage of the Ohms was that the tweeters were up high. But of course that height is exactly what got them banished to the closet! The tall grass gets cut first.  
brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
Dan, good idea about trying them without regard to WAF, just to see if they can ever be made to work. Will do. As for class D, I love the idea of it —especially the complicity and low cost — but what about that ineffable sense of aliveness? Do they have it? Also, which ones do you like? And do you use preamp? What kind? Thanks again!
brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
Atmasphere, the couch is soft. So far closer to me seems better than close to the walls, but I am finding that listening for prolonged periods changes my sense of these things! The differences are subtle, but in all positions the sound is fatiguing.

Mofojo, I have Roon — which I love — so I tried my hand at EQ. I can remove some of the congestion with a notch, but the overall lack of cohesion remains.

Chayro and Jmontoya21, I know, I know! But selling these and buying new ones is a pretty big project, and I still have the question of the amp. Also, and I know this is lame, but these speakers look terrific. That is a big help in maintaining my fledgling audio hobby! Tektons just aren't in the cards alas. Maybe Harbeths!


brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
tls49, I'm using a Dragonfly red connected to a Macbook on Ethernet with a Roon server. The mini phone connection is obviously a major weak point, but my HRT Streamer with RCA connections sounds even worse. (The Dragonfly is a great little DAC.) But you raise a good point. The sound is so boxy that it is possible that I am just doing something wrong. The phase is right. (I switched and it sounded much worse, so switched back.) Maybe there is some kind of power load problem, like the Rega Brio is confused by speakers that are that efficient? (It's usually somewhere between 8 o'clock and 9 o'clock on the volume knob.)
brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
Mofojo, for music I mostly listen to jazz or classic rock, some country and bluegrass. So acoustic instruments are priority one. So far, Pianos sound consistently bad. Acoustic guitars sound consistently good. Upright bass is anyone's guess, totally depends on the record. Classic rock: simple arrangements sound good, wall of sound recordings are a disaster. 

Jond, I will look at audio note!
brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
Okay, I am thinking next step is to try a different amp. One thought: vintage Marantz, like a 1060. They are cheap, solid state but noted for their warmth, and they have tone controls. What do people think? And what would be some other options? (Not a lot of tube amps with tone controls!)
brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
Hi All -

A quick update!

First, thank you to everyone for the really helpful advice. This hobby is fun in large part because you are always learning something new, and I really learned a lot from this conversation.

And yet — as is so often the case — I solved my problem by chance encounter! I was at a vintage audio place in Brooklyn that had a Luxman L-450 for sale. From this thread I knew I needed to either give the Heresys a different signal or the Ohms more power. The Luxman was more powerful than the Brio, and it had tone controls. Seemed like it would improve the situation either way. And of course Luxman has an excellent reputation. So I bought it.

The result: I love my system!

The biggest surprise was that imaging has *radically* improved. The music is totally coherent and engaging. Cranking the bass way up pretty much solved the bass problem. And the general character of the Luxman is very, very pleasing.

Of course, I still see a future with an even better amp, decent stands for the Heresys, better placement, an improved DAC, maybe even a subwoofer, etc. But things are just much better.

Again, thanks all for the coaching. I will be back with more questions soon!





brooklynluke OP
21 posts
 
MrD. and Helomech, what's the best way to do the dampening? Has anyone posted detailed instructions? Seems like a worthwhile project!
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