Direct drive vs belt vs rim vs idler arm

Dear Rockyboy: +++++ " Is one TT type inherently better than another? " +++++

my experiences on all TT drive systems but the rim one tell me that no one is better than the other.

Syntax posted: ++++ " The worst - by far - is idler drive, followed from DD and best is Thread Drive (when done right). " +++++

but he did not say why?????. He said: " best is thread drive ( when done right ) ". What about a DD " when done right "?

Albertporter posted: +++++ " All systems at their ultimate execution, direct drive is best. " +++++

neither here he said it why??????

So, seems to me that all about is about: " personal preferences " on what we have/are playing in our audio system.

The kind of TT drive system is only one factor/characteristic on a whole TT design and perhaps not the more important one or at least not the one that could define which kind of TT is better.

A TT as a tonearm IMHO must be analysed against which kind of audio item is using it which kind of audio item " depends " and how of the TT or the tonearm. These two analog items are " slaves " of the phono cartridge that IMHO is the analog item that has the hardest task on analog that's: TO READ THE LP GROOVES INFORMATION WITH CERO DEGRADATION. ADDING AND LOSTING NOTHING OF THE PRECIOUS RECORDED SIGNAL.

IMHO THE FIRST TWO " FOCUS " THAT GOES AGAINST THAT STATEMENT ARE THE TT AND THE TONEARM. ( obviously the tonearm internal wire and connectors. ).

The TT, independent of what kind of drive system has, is a " tremendous " focus of cartridge signal degradation even if always runs at 33.1/3 rpm and mantain 100% of speed stability in the very short time: no speed variations not even tiny variations. In its best design any TT drive system can fulfil the whole speed subject and even to have the same posibilities to share in between same specs about: ruble, signal to noise ratio, wow and flutter or speed stability numbers.

Main differences IMHO comes how a TT design handle internal vibrations/resonances at different levels as: bearing, motor, plinth, belt, platter, etc, etc.. In the very first second that a TT start to run in that very first moment are generated vibrations/resonances ( that we can name it: distortions, that will be pick-up by the phono cartridge. Distortions that are not on the LP grooves. ) due that a TT is a dynamic " circuit ": the platter mass in movement generate a dynamic tiny vibrations where different platter mass/weight generate different vibrations/resonances and these kind of distortions depends too on which TT build materials were choosen by the TT designer.

Now, the TT plater generated distortions has to be added to the TT bearing distortions, to the TT motor distortions, to the TT arm board distortions, to the TT plinth distortions and obviously to all kind of vibrations/resonances generated out side the TT that affect the cartridge signal.

I posted several times that till today ( and I'm not heard all the TT out there but almost all. ) no TT design per se fulfil the cartridge needs and the main reason is not because the drive system but mainly because the build materials choosed on the TT design and more specific the build materials choosed for the platter/mat TT.

According with my experiences the " major " differences in the music we perceived trough the cartridge and all the way to the speakers is: the build material choosed for the platter/mat that is in direct touch with the LP and the LP with the phono cartridge and not because the TT drive system.

I'm not saying that the drive system is not important ( everything in a TT design is important. ), certainly it is but what is in direct touch with the LP is more critic/important and gives the TT " signature ".

I did not heard yet and analog rig ( in any audio system. ) where I can say: " this TT really works " dissapearing " ( by dampening or some other way. ) internal and external vibrations/resonances that permits the cartridge can fulfil its needs.

Some of the last DD designs are taking care about and I hope that in a near future we can have TTs that can fulfil the cartridge needs.

The name of the game: TT design build materials chosen!!!!!!, DD or BD is almost unimportant. Of course that first rate design execution is a must to have.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear Richardkrebs: I agree with Jazdoc too. There are several targets on a whole TT design and certainly what you posted:

+++++ " have absolute speed stability under all load conditions. " +++++

is a primary one but is only one link/part of the TT design and execution design. As you said: TT bearing is critical, platter weight and motor match, arm board design, platter build materials, plinth build materials, arm board build materials, mat ( if any ) build materials, drive system, motor choosed, TT footers, damping/drain vibrations/resonances, etc, etc.

Good to read your posts and other people ones that in many ways what we read it in this tread ( at least for me ) was/is a learning one.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

and we have to remember that that ideal/perfect TT design main target is to: FULFIL THE LP/CARTRIDGE NEEDS and not only to take money for we the customers.

R.

Dear Tonywinsc: +++++ " So it is very likely that you could play a particular record one day and it seems to sound really great- pace is on and the music flows and the next time it sound kind of dead- all based on the randomness of the record position to the platter. " +++++

you are absolutely right and this problem is an important part of the non-perfect LP/analog medium.

The LPs that I use on my self evaluation audio item method are marked to lower that " problem " and be more consistent during different audio item evaluations.

In the past appeared a manual tool to center the LPs ( I think was named: Center-O-Disc or something like that. I remember it works fine. ) ) y used and I think I still have somewhere. Now that you brought this extremely important subject I will try to find out and test it again. I know I will have an improvement on quality performance level, no doubt about.

Other than that device the only serious attempt to elimate the off center LP problems was Nakamichi through its 1000 TT model and latter on with the Nakamichi TT Dragon.

I don't know how easy or hard is to the LP manufacturers to have their LPs with a " perfect " hole centered. Today we pay a lot of money for new LPs/reissues and the like but the LP manufacturers never fixed that problem and IMHO no one of them take care about.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.