direct drive tt's?


It is very hard for someone who grew up in the cd era to know much about turntables, and what to look for and what to avoid. No area dealers have analog set-ups I can listen to, and I am the only person I know who even listens to records. So I thought I'd post here to gain a little knowledge hopefully.

I found a early 70's Miida direct drive turntable in the trash a few months ago. Model number 3115 I believe. The thing was in fine condition, very clean, and ran much quieter than the Thorens 140 belt-drive tt that I was using, so out went the Thorens and in went the Miida. But what I want to know is, what are the shortcomings of dd turntables? What kind of tweaks might be worth experimenting with to get the maximum out of the tt, or are such turntables not worth even fiddling with? What cartidges would be worth thinking about for such a tt, and for the quality of records I play (my collection is mostly from thrift stores and yard sales, but I do have a nitty gritty to clean my finds, and I also have some valuable records I certainly do NOT want to do harm to)? Is it possible or worthwhile to upgrade the tonearm on such a table?

Any advice and information would be welcomed. As I say, its hard to know much about vinyl playback and its subtleties when all you have ever seen are cd's and digital gear.

btw, I run the ol' retro-looking miida into BAT electronics and Snell loudspeakers.

thanks :)
pcanis
pcanis
Pcarris-

To answer your question on the price of Rega tables and arms, Rega had figured out a design and manufacturing process that lent itself to relatively inexpensive production. They gave it a reasonable price and making good money being the highest-volume maker of quality arms. If you take a close look at their tables, they are quite simple, yet very effective as they generally compromised in favor of sound quality. (e.g.- The platter is a little slow to get to speed, but the motor is quiet and well-isolated for a table in this price range.)

Detachable headshells are fraught with problems- another set of contacts, extra weight, inconsistant alignment, lack of stiffness, etc- and are not tpically found on better tables. It's probably splitting hairs to have both a mono and stereo cartridge at this price point. Cartridges are one of the worst hi-fi investments from a purely financial standpoint- why double up on $$$ in that area?. If one were to go to that extent, one could almost justify getting a second table optimized for mono and a THIRD table (a Technics 1200) just for 'scratching'. (Heh, heh, heh.)

Sounds like your Miida was indeed intended to be a better piece. If it does not have a suspension system, try setting the table on brass cones and set the cones on a thick piece of acrylic. In my experience, unsuspended tables generally don't like to sit directly on squishy surfaces. Does anybody else share that experience?

A note of caution- a high-end dealer told me that Grado's tendency to hum is pronounced on Rega tables, although I don't know that first-hand. If the spirit moves you, you can get to Origin's site through .

Regards
Jim
All AC motors have poles. The better table motors have 24 poles, some more. As you turn the motor and each pole comes into play and adds torque you get a speed up and as the poles move away from the stator the magnetic push goes down so you get a slight variation in torque 24 times per rotation with a 24 pole motor on a dd. You remove this WOW in two ways. Mass - make your platter very heavy so momentum damps out the hills and valleys of the torque change. Elasticity - use a rubber band to dampen out the WOW. When a dd motor turns one rotation you get the 24 dips and valleys. When a rubber band drive motor turns one full turn the platter only turns a small fraction (ie small pully on the motor vs a large diameter of the platter so the full rotation of the platter might be equivalent to a 240 pole motor. Lastly you can't isolate bearing rumble from the motor with a direct connection mechanically to the platter, record, phono cartridge.
Another possible consideration is maintenance. Once the motor in your direct drive goes, you are basically SOL. You will probably be better off replacing the entire table for the expense of replacing the motor. My first tt was a Denon. The motor went bad after about 2 1/2 years. After that, the only thing I could do is try to find someone who wanted to buy a solid wood Denon tt base. My next tt was a VPI which I purchased about 15 years ago. It also had a bad motor that died after about 2 years. However, they sent me a replacement in the mail, I popped it in, and in literally 10 minutes I was up and running again. That was 13 years ago, and I've been running without a hitch since then.
I've been doing some comparison listening between the budget Thorens TD-180 belt drive turntable I was using, and the DD drive TT mentioned in this thread, and I've come to the conclusion that, using the same cartridge, the DD drive just simply has more body and substance to its sound.

Of course the Thorens was their absolute bargain table, so the only claim I can make here is that a mid-line well-built, old DD still might be better than the newer, super-budget belt drive tables.

I suspect the difference is due to the sheer stability of the Miida table. It is pretty substantial, and maybe there is no substitute for that???

pcanis