direct drive tt's?

Pcanis-

In general, belt drives out-perform DD at any given price bracket for the basic reason that any DD motor noise is directly routed to the cartridge via the splindle, platter and record. Even with some of the platter mats available, alot of vibration is passed from the spindle to the record. When you consider how incredibly small even the largest undulation in the record groove is, you can appreciate how easy it is for the slightest outside vibration to start canceling out the material in the grooves or having the cartridge pick up the outside vibration or noise.

Also, DD tables do not maintain accurate speed. They are constantly speeding up or slowing down in tiny increments up to several times in one revolution to maintain an average speed of 33 1/3. While this phenomena is almost imperceptable, it detracts from the overall sense of lively-ness.

Belt drive tables have the advantage of having the belt to reduce much of the noise and vibration introduced to splindle/platter/cartridge. Further improvements (and additional costs) come in the way of improving the spindle bearing surfaces, less motor/electrical vibration, further isolation of the motor, isolation of the plinth and arm, etc, etc, etc. I can't think of ANY medium to higher-end tables currently produced that are NOT belt drive, which is a testament to this approach. (No, Technics 1200's aren't mid-fi!) As my audio-challenged brother-in-law said when he was shocked that he had been listening to an LP and not a CD, "Wow, it's so....CLEAR!!

As to your question on improving your table with a different arm or other tweaks, that the money could be saved for another table when it's time. While you could improve the sonics somewhat on this unit, you would fundamentally end up with the same thing or maybe worse. One of the basic tweaks common to all tables, though, is to set it on a solid, secure, vibration-free surface, but that's a whole 'nother subject.

It sounds like you are at least somewhat satified with your table, so you might just hang on to it until you get the "bug" and the information to make a reasoned purchase decision.

Stay tuned to this Audiogon Discussion Forum!

Regards
Jim

Hear, hear to Well-Tempered tables. I happen to have the Classic model and appreciate the rather funky arm. (Hey, it make sense to me!) There are a number of very good new tables in the $500 range and alot of GREAT used tables under $1000.

Pcanis, you don't need to go whole-hog on a cartridge/phono pre-amp at this point. Look to get a nice Grado Silver MM or perhaps even a used high-output Blue Point Special or Glider for under $300 and stick with the phono pre you have now. Put the money you DON'T spend on that stuff toward the best table you can afford/justify. This way, the table will be able to extract more from the cartridge and it'll be quieter, clearer and more dynamic. It will be easy to upgrade the cartridge and/or phono pre at a later date. A bad table won't extract much from a cartridge no matter HOW good the cartridge is!

Classical recordings typically have very wide dynamic range while most rock is fairly limited. A possible reason for your apparent dicrepancy in the quality of play-back between the two genres is that classical is typically more demanding and revealing of the table and cartridge than most rock. You are hearing the problems of a DD table when you play classical.

A note on the Thorens- Thoroughly clean the spindle & bearing (bottom AND sides of both) and re-lube. Get a new belt. Adjust the suspension so it is level, low and loose. Shim the cartridge so that the top of the body is level with the record while it is playing. Get an alignment protractor and get the cartridge lined up. Put the table on a solid piece of granite, thick acrylic or a similar dense material. You will be rewarded.

Most, if not all, of the proponents of DD are DJs who have a whole different set of criteria for tables. High torque, quick-starting motors and the ability to spin freely to "scratch" are far more valuable than sound quality.

Click on the blue-colored names of the entries (i.e. the blue "Jimbo3" next to the posting date) to read that person's other posts to get familiar with their ideas, priorities, tastes, etc. Then find a few who seem to share your tastes and/or make sense and communicate with them. You'll be up to speed in no time!

Regards
Jim

Pcanis-
A couple of after-thoughts on my previous post-

1) The comment in the last sentence of the second paragraph about a "bad table" was intended to be a broad statement and not specifically about your Miida. I am not familiar with the Miida and it could well be a very nice deck. If it was an expensive piece at the time, one would assume that is would sound better than an inexpensive belt-drive of that era! (But you know what they say about the word 'assume'!)

2) If it's in good shape, your Sumiko is probably worth putting on a pretty good table, so you might want to keep it and try a used Rega P3 (around $400), get an Origin Live-modified Rega RB-250 arm (around $350 new, $225 used) and sell the RB-300 arm that came with the P3 (for around $200). Heck of a set-up for five or six bills! Go with the Benz Glider later on.

Of course, that's just one of the million ways to get a good analog rig.....

Regards
Jim

Pcarris-

To answer your question on the price of Rega tables and arms, Rega had figured out a design and manufacturing process that lent itself to relatively inexpensive production. They gave it a reasonable price and making good money being the highest-volume maker of quality arms. If you take a close look at their tables, they are quite simple, yet very effective as they generally compromised in favor of sound quality. (e.g.- The platter is a little slow to get to speed, but the motor is quiet and well-isolated for a table in this price range.)

Detachable headshells are fraught with problems- another set of contacts, extra weight, inconsistant alignment, lack of stiffness, etc- and are not tpically found on better tables. It's probably splitting hairs to have both a mono and stereo cartridge at this price point. Cartridges are one of the worst hi-fi investments from a purely financial standpoint- why double up on $$$ in that area?. If one were to go to that extent, one could almost justify getting a second table optimized for mono and a THIRD table (a Technics 1200) just for 'scratching'. (Heh, heh, heh.)

Sounds like your Miida was indeed intended to be a better piece. If it does not have a suspension system, try setting the table on brass cones and set the cones on a thick piece of acrylic. In my experience, unsuspended tables generally don't like to sit directly on squishy surfaces. Does anybody else share that experience?

A note of caution- a high-end dealer told me that Grado's tendency to hum is pronounced on Rega tables, although I don't know that first-hand. If the spirit moves you, you can get to Origin's site through .

Regards
Jim