Direct drive/rim drive/idler drive vs. belt drive?


O.K. here is one for all the physics majors and engineers.

Does a high mass platter being belt driven offer the same steady inertia/speed as a direct drive or idler drive?
Is the lack of torque in the belt drive motor compensated for by the high mass platter. Object in motion stays in motion etc. Or are there other factors to take into consideration?
I am considering building up a Garrard 301 or Technics SP10, but is it all nonsense about the advantage of torque.
I am aware that the plinths on these tables can make a huge difference, I've got that covered.
My other options would be SME20 or Basis 2500 of Kuzma Stogi Reference etc.
If I have misstated some technical word, please avert your eyes. I don't want a lecture on semantics, I think everyone knows what I mean.
Thanks in advance.
mrmatt

Showing 5 responses by dan_ed

I want to ask opinions on belt approach that Hiho has mentioned a few times. I was also of the opinion that any kind of compliant belt was not going to be the best solution. It seems in my brief experiences with speed controllers of late that with a DC approach the system does benefit from tight coupling, hence mylar can work very well.

The difference in DC controller operation can make or break this theory of mine. I would characterize one controller/drive system as being similar to the approach Dertonarm mentioned, that of counting on a certain amount of slippage. Another controller, (same motor, different controller) just happens to be one of Mark's old DC controllers, seems to improve with increased tension => no, or almost no, belt slippage. This does require a pretty hefty motor pod to help keep things taught. The presentation of this second DC approach is very much like what I hear with rim drives and maybe some lower end DDs. How much like rim drive I can't say as I don't have a good candidate for A/B.

So I thought I was all set with my drive choice. And then a friend brought over an AC motor and a Kelly AC controller. As you might expect, the cogging of the motor is very apparent with the mylar belt, even with less tension. The best setup was achieved with very little tension and a fair amount of slippage. Even more than what was used with the first DC controller. So it would seem that a more compliant belt would be called for with the AC approach. The amazing thing to me was that even with the huge amount of slippage the AC motor/controller was really kicking the DC arse in many ways.

After learning some these new things for myself I am no longer so convinced of what I thought before about belt compliance. Surely we would all love to have the perfect motor. But since that probably isn't going to happen, it seems to me that the controller becomes more important. At the same time, the selection of the motor and controller would seem to dictate what belt candidates should be considered.

Mark, I am still somewhat surprised that the particular platter/bearing does not seem to influence your designs. Or do you just make it look too damn easy? :-)
HI Matt,

I can't help with the technical questions. I will offer this. My wife and I decided to stop "working" on our relationship after the first three years. That's when my first son came along. After that we just "worked" on making it through the day. It will be 34 years this winter. :-)
Mark,

I think you'll be surprised at what can be achieved with standard AC motors and belts even less compliant than your Mylar when the drive mechanics are understood.

If it isn't giving anything away, how is the filtering by the belt done differently with less compliance in the AC approach? Or am I confused by my own assumptions?
While it has been several years I do remember hearing a demo of the prototype Teres Certus. I recall that there was/is a difference between the Certus platter and that used on the non-DD Teres tables. One of the differences was the use of a significant amount of brass. This was on my mind during that demo. How much of the presentation was due to the drive and how much was due to the difference in platter material? I suspect a bit of both, and I do believe that there were differences in arm/carts. To Ralph's point, the surfaces were the same as far as I know.

I don't know if the present Certus controller offers the torque adjust feature that was on the proto. That adjustment did make for an effective demonstration of the effect of torque on the sound. At one point the torque was turned up such that the sound changed immediately from analog to digital.

Since that time I've never stopped wondering if the transient sounds I'm hearing are real or not when I am experimenting with speed. I posted earlier about my experiments with really taught mylar and a more robust controller. At present I am drawn to the sound, but my mind still asks if it sounds real.

As interesting as this all is, I feel the need to remind myself that not everyone agrees with what I think LP playback should sound like. There are many people in this hobby that prefer what I would call sluggish and syrupy presentation.
One other thing I wanted to add was with respect to what can perceived as a cartridge alignment issue, which in reality is actually a micro-dynamic speed issue. I don't know what other term to use to refer to this, hopefully you guys can get a hint of what I'm on about. I would guess this is probably more prevalent with belt drives.