Im late to the party...
I have it all. Im kind of a "Dead Freak" Deadhead and have been getting the releases as they come since their inception...
There are enough recommendations here and as mentioned, everyone will have there faves... I, of course, love the "best" years, 72, 77, 90. But the transition times right before the popular years are some incredible shows --late 71 and 73, late 76 and Im big Brent fan, so even 87 thru 90 are good with me... The Spring '90 boxset is better than 'good' (as mentioned) IMO. But maybe theres a touch of 'had to be there' involved, which I was. With that said, "Dozin' At The Knick" is a monster show from '90 that anyone can love.
Regarding the Wall of Sound, I do think you can tell these recordings apart from others (maybe not all?). There seems to be more power and immediacy, a bit more instrument separation, also where the drums sit in imaging and presence. Over the years a few band members have said the Wall did indeed change their playing, as they could hear each other much better. Billy says their interplay at those shows was phenomenal.
I have recently been going through the 30 Trips Around The Sun box (50th anniversary boxset w/ one show each year. i.e. "Boxzilla" haha) and I must say, these shows sound incredible! David Glasser's best work so far wit the Dead, IMO. with special note going to the early 67 and 68 shows. You will be hard pressed to find cleaner, quieter and detailed early shows than these. Just awesome. System dependent of course (;
I will agree that the Dick's Picks series has the more 'epic show' quality stuff over the Dave's Picks series. I mean, why wouldn't it, Dick Latvala was there through the '70s' and on and an expert on the shows and tapes, so not to take anything away from what David Lemieux has done. He is releasing some great shows. Off hand: Vol. one (great sound). Vol. 8 (the only Matrix recording release ever) and Vol. 11 (one of the best Other Ones you will hear).
On tap for todays listening is the newest Dave's Vol. 17...
Happy listening!
PS: Don't forget to pick up the Sunshine Daydream movie bluray release. 8-27-72 film. what a fantastic time capsule with one of the best versions of Dark Star and Playin' you will ever witness.
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Lets not forget the Road Trips series... They are not full shows but still some great stuff! Imagine a show with some killer versions of songs sprinkled throughout a few stinkers, they just give ya the goods from two shows in one release. OR if a shows tapes were marred in some areas, or missing reals for some, but otherwise really great stuff existing, they give it to ya...
Id have to look back a see what my faves were. I can think of the just back from Egypt shows as being one that is surprisingly good. And the all the bonus disks for Road Trips are all quite good. I don't know if they are including the bonus disks in the file format "Complete Road Trips Recordings" available on Deadnet or not...
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Yes, to reiterate jond, the shows out there that have been "fixed up" by Charlie Miller are, I assume, all great! I have a hand full of em.
I'm not sure I would say they are better than the work Jeffery Norman does to the official releases but they are very good.
Is etree the best place to get Charlie's shows?
Someone should construct a comprehensive site of the Charlie Miller shows and DL links! That would be awesome. |
Good points jond! I'll have to break out my Miller shows and compare. Havnt done that with this system, so I clearly don't know (:
Im at the 79 show in the 30trips box set. Good stuff... |
vicweast,
What a neat way to listen and learn the evolution of a song through the years!
I will usually listen to the newest release, then listen to the shows before and after it --kinda like 'doing a run of shows' in my own living/system room (;
Or, for more casual listening, I will ask my wife to name a song or a year or both, then I'll hunt us something from there. That method is great for the Relisten app to the bluetooth speakers in the kitchen.
Its the weekend, lets all put on some Dead!
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The problem is, as I understand, those May 77 shows are not in the Vault... I don't know if they are ones in Dan Healy's possession or not but he does have A LOT of very good shows that he is not coming off of --they are his property.
There was rumor of him being in talks with Dave and Rhino but last I heard, a few years ago or so, is that he wanted to much money for them and Dead camp and/or Rhino could not afford them AND be able to make a dime. |
"Guys the reason most of May 77 hasn't been released is exactly because so many of those shows are already out there as great sounding soundboards. Official releases would be redundant."
Thats just not true. There are plenty of official release shows that were widely traded and with great sound. It has never stopped Dave and crew from releasing what they want. He has even stated "many of you probably already have upcoming release 'x' but...yadda yadda." To name a few famous ones that were widely traded before being releaced- 2-13-70, 8-27-72, 3-29-90, just to name a few...
5-8-77 and the surrounding shows would sell like crazy. BUT they are NOT in the vault. Dave has said so himself. Last time it was mentioned, on a "Weir Here" episode I believe, he said " not yet." Eluding to the fact that they were working on it, but I really don't know. And during one of his "seaside chat" vids OR during one of his U-stream chats he used to do, Dave mentioned "we're working on it." I can't recall what exact show he was referring to there but its all in reference to trying to make a deal to get a bunch of shows back.
When Healy left/was fired from working with the band in 93, that was it. He has many many SBD masters that he recorded and belong to him...and he, as of now, is still hoarding them, as far as we know.. For bad blood reasons. [Read the thread on the Steve Hoffman forum for more on the split.]
Years ago, back in the bootleg CD days (meaning those 'official looking' unofficial pressed and packaged CD sets), there was a series of shows put out by bootleggers called "Left In The Vaults". those shows --all very good-- were rumored to be from Dan Healy. He has the masters for some very very good uncirculated shows, along with the masters for some of those famous shows.
The "house boat tapes" is a great story of some very good early Dead tape masters being found. One or two of them have been released as Dick's and Dave's Picks and I believe a few more are to come.
I originally brought this subject up hoping that someone would have some updated 'good news' for us about the 77 shows and/or others. Dave's Picks is starting to get juuuust a little hit and miss...
Personally I would LOVE to see and hear them all --known or unknown gems-- given the Deadnet treatment, mixing, liner note booklets, artwork and everything. I love that stuff (:
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rbbert,
thanks so much for completing the story here! That is just what i was hoping would happen. Great news! Or at least better to hear than Healy having the May 77 shows with him, as that would continue to seem hopeless. He does have some but sounds more promising than I had suspected. |
Ah, I see... Funny how easy it is for the 'grapevine' to get distorted. With that said --and apart from totally spacing that these particular 77 shows we were speaking about were Betty Boards (duh!)-- there are even a few good ones that Healy has or so Ive been told.
Oh well... As mentioned, the music is all still out there for us but just imagine how David Lemieux and crew must feel. You know they want to continue to give the best possible Dead music to the fans that they can. It must be so frustrating for them, trying to make a deal like this happen with a 'seller' that seemingly just doesn't care.
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Just make sure Charlie Miller is in the source info details.
He has done his "clean-up" / "fix-up" work on both SBD recordings and AUD recordings.
Enjoy! |
To quote Jerry--- "It can't be done!" (; |
ifmywordsdidglow,
"It bothers me that the Dick's Picks releases do not include full shows."
Out of 36 volumes of Dicks Picks there are only a few that are not complete full shows... OR are you saying, you wish they were "un-cut", meaning still having the sometimes long breaks and tuning between the songs? I love that on the un-cut boards that are out there.
jond,
Not to get picky here or miss your "generalizing", but --and info for those that may not know-- a matrix recording (AUD and SDB mixed to varying percentages) does much more than just adds crowd noise. A good well done matrix can compleatly change the sound and feel of a show recording.
rbbert,
I kind of agree, as there is magic to be heard in every single Dead show [release] (to keep it with the thread subject)... Personally I am generally a 'one set at a time' listener but often just choose a run of songs to play at a time.
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Hey all,
Looks like the Betty Boards ARE indeed back in the vault! At least some of them are so far! The newest boxset has been released and the are Betty boards from July of '78 and David L. mentions it in his seaside chat about the boxset... SO, maybe the famed 5/8/77 --and others-- are coming down the pipe. Regardless, its great to know the people representing the owners of the Betty boards wanted to get the tapes back in the vault! Awesome news for Deadheads!
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^ Soon you will always think of Red Rocks (; |
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I agree about DP 21. Killer first set. All the 'little songs' and/or 'standards' all have something special to them. Even Keith is on ;) ...
'73 is one of my favorite years. I noticed many years ago that I like the year before a 'big year', so '71, '73 and some '76 (late). I guess the same goes for '89.
I don't mind Jeffrey's work on the mixes. yes, they are different than what we were 'used to' but they are now a 'modern' sound... But sounds like I gotta get back in "the scene" to my old bros and get some of Charlie Millers newer remaster work...
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jafant,
I do not. I used to have a half dozen or so Charlie Miller on an old hard drive (some '72 and some '76 and others) but I don't have a network player in the main system yet. |
I thought someone was going to offer to send me a copy ;)
Remember the ol' day of B&P (blanks & postage)?
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Hey Now, fellows Dead freaks!
I was just thinking about this thread and here it is. Good ol’ Grateful Dead synchronicity!
I used to use the “So Many Roads” box to ‘demo’ the Dead for people. Great introduction to the different eras of Dead music.
Lookin’ Forward to the Pac-NW box. Three of the six shows are WOS. WOS shows are interesting, as Billy’s snare drum is generally up in the mix and the drums in general are a close-up sound. A more forward presentation in general than other recordings/eras.
With my system sounding better than ever, I decided to go back to Europe ‘72 in succession. I’m on show #9 now, 4/26/72 (which is actually the “Hundred Year Hall” release), then I will be in uncharted territory till reaching the ending UK run again. Looking forward to the Paris Dark Star. Really fun and quite enlightening listening in this fashion.
BUT, more on specific thread subject: Dave’s Picks vol. 23, 1/22/78. Not the best recording with the piano distortion for a chunk of the show, but it’s worth it and IMO every Deadhead needs to hear the “Close Encounters” solo Jerry segment. The Terrapin is not that great but then the Drums>Other One>Space, where you get just Jerry playing for 4 mins or so is flat out amazing. Turn it up! - pure bliss for 4 or 5 mins.
Ok, to much from me! But I’ve been over loaded on Dead lately. |
Right on, garebear! More of that GAterful Dead synchronicity :^D
It was (and is) an interesting -and spooky sometimes- real phenomenon back at shows. There’s a chapter or two out there about it somewhere.
Enjoy and dont overheat out there! It very hot here too. |
Lucky you, boxer12. You got to see them -and the scene- before the influx. My first show was spring ‘88...then I didn’t stop much, when not in school —and while in school ;)
But at this stage in the game, IMO, a ‘late bloomer’ is one that did not get to see Jerry live. There are many of those now.
jafant,
I just finished that show yesterday on my start to finish Europe ‘72... sorry I can’t help ya but all those shows are on nugs.net if yer ok with paying for it.
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Hey jafant,
The new box set is very good! I took this summer to go back through all 22 Europe ‘72 shows in order. Obviously, and as we all know, some ‘top of the heap’ shows and playing on that tour...
BUT these ‘73 and ‘74 PNW shows sound better sonicly; better separation, better clarity (obviously due to the Prototype Wall of Sound and then the actual WOS) and better soundstaging.
Also something seems just a lil different with Jeffry Norman’s mixing here but I’m not far enough into the box to comment further.
Goood stuff here. |
@jayrossi13 and @johnto
Comparing the official releases to the raw 2ch SBD’s...
Here’s how I see it:
The official releases, at least speaking about the newest Dave’s Picks series, as well as the most recent boxsets over the last few years or so, they do have a higher sonic fidelity than the raw 2 channel soundboard recordings. They have better tone, better detail, better extension, as well as better clarity and separation between individual instruments. They have more of a ‘front row’ feel sometimes in my system (recording dependent). But in making them into a clearer more detailed modern hi-fi recording some magic is lost...
The raw soundboards may sound a lil more distant and smeared by comparison, they have more of the feeling and energy of the actual live event. The living breathing dynamic swells of energy, a cohesive/interconnected organic musical flow that the official releases lack. I can’t explain why pulling all that great clarity and detail out of the recordings causes them to loose a cohesiveness and ultimate musical flow. I sure do wish Jeffrey Norman could do some sort of mix between the nice clarity, tone and detail that he pulls out of these old recordings but keeping that musical flow and energy that the original performances are capable of showing.
But these statements are not true for every moment of every release, as there are moments where everything disappears and musical bliss occurs that is simply not the same or as possible with its raw sbd equivalent.
Also... we are mainly talking about digital here and digital systems are sometimes harder to get ‘right’, so ones system is at play here, too... Personally —apart from trying to get good digital playback— I tuned my system for the Dead and everything else is secondary ;)
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@jafant I fell off on the PNW box and need to get back on it. I didn’t know about disc issues so I just checked the final shows I have not gotten to yet and all look ok, except for one that had a big sticky rubbery boogery thing on it, as well as one small scratch.
@snackeyp is right! Dave’s 28 is one of the best sounding in a long time! So delicate and detailed. One of the news clippings in the liner notes talks about realistic non-ear-splitting volume levels at these shows, maybe that’s why; the sound system is not being overdriven... Excelent SQ Betty mix!
Another one with excelent sq is the Hawaii ‘71, as far as being nice and clear and revealing.
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