@big_greg: Thank you for reminding me how great the KEF Ref 1 are. Let me ask you this ... is there anything about the SHL5+ that you miss, any regrets?
I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on SHL5+ but wondering how the might perform in my media room which is 20 W x 25 L x 12 H. The speakers will be placed along the shorter (20W) wall. Do you guys think the speakers, with the possible addition of a sub or two, are enough for this room? |
@bjesien Thank you for the recommendation. I had actually never heard of Verity Audio before this. Went to their website but there's no mention of the price. For now, I'm planning to use Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II but will be getting another tube integrated down the line -- possibly Line Magnetic or Primaluna. |
No one with Proac D484Rs? |
Here's an excerpt from Stereohile regarding HL5+'s measurements ... The Harbeth is specified as having a sensitivity of 86dB/W/m, and my estimate of its voltage sensitivity was the same: 86dB(B)/2.83V/m. Though this is 1dB or so below average, I commend Harbeth for not inflating this specification. Although the Super HL5plus has a specified impedance of 6 ohms, my measurement (fig.1) indicates that the speaker's impedance remains above 8 ohms for almost all of the audioband, and that the electrical phase angle remains relatively small. The HL5plus will therefore be an easy load for the partnering amplifier to drive, and a good match for tubed designs. |
@chrisoshea ... well, thank you for the fantastic advice. I can't believe I never thought of doing it this way, especially the last point. Pure genius!
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So after a lot of hemming and hawing, I finally decided to pull the trigger on a used pair of Sonus Faber Olympica II. I compared the Olympica Nova II with the old ones, although not in the same location, and honestly couldn't tell much of a difference. I might be the only one, but I also think the old ones look more classy and elegant. It was a tough decision between the SF and SHL5+, but I have lusted over the Sonus Fabers' for a long time and it's an itch I just had to scratch. So here we are!
The speakers will arrive next week. I will initially run them with my Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II amp, and based on what I hear I'll decide if it's enough amp for the speakers or maybe look at other options like McIntosh. Slippery slope ahead .... |
@prof -- Wow, what a thoughtful and detailed response. I have the Harbeth P3esr's in my study and absolutely love them. I was pretty much sold on the Harbeth sound until I saw the Devore's.
I didn't get a chance to see which McIntosh models were playing in my neighbor's house. I'll see if it's possible to go back to his house and hear more music, but as you know it's not easy or welcome given the pandemic.
I'll go through the other thread you mentioned in the next day or two. |
@jjss49 Thanks, man. I'm really intrigued by the Proac D48Rs. Despite the less than stellar audition today, the clarity and vocals were actually very impressive. I agree that tubes are probably going to make a big impact.
I'm also considering a used pair of Sonus Faber Olympica II (not Nova), since lots of used ones are in the market at reasonable prices. As of today, these are the two three contenders ...
1. Harbeth SHL5+
2. Sonus Faber Olympica II
3. Proac D48R -- i know this is probably more different than the other two but I really loved the looks and vocals. Definitely something different.
At some point, I need to get rid of my analysis paralysis and make a decision.
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Correction: The Sonus Faber speakers that I demoed were Olympica Nova II, not III. |
A new pair of Harbeth 40.2 is waaay out of my budget, that’s why I was focusing on SHL5+. But you guys are not making it any easier for me :)
The following points are working in favor of Harbeth ...
- I already have the smaller Harbeth in my study and honestly I can’t think of anything that I dislike about the sound. Well alright, I don’t think they image as well as my KEF LS50s, but other than that they excel in almost everything else that matters to me, especially vocals, texture, and tonality.
- Harbeth probably has more brand recognition than Devore. It matters because if I ever feel the need to sell it, I can probably get a better deal on it. I just wish that they looked a little nicer.
Having said that, the new set of speakers will be placed in the media room, and I do want the rest of the family to be able to enjoy them as well. So Devore’s ’fun’ factor is not necessarily a bad thing as long as it doesn’t stray too far from the sound qualities I prefer, i.e. focus on midrange, tonality, balance, etc. There’s a dealer in my city who carries Devore, I’ll call them tomorrow to see if they have the Orangutans that I can demo.
@prof You now have me looking into the Joseph Audio speakers. Unless I’m mistaken I think they are in the same price range as the Devore Orangutans, or am I looking at the wrong speaker?
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So I made an appointment in the afternoon to go listen to the O96s at a local dealer -- Audio Concepts in Dallas. First of all, a big shout out to them. They were super helpful, courteous and allowed me to listen to as long as I wanted to without any pressure or the typical sales tactics. Excellent experience!
After listening to the speakers for about an hour or so, I have to say that my impressions are very much in line with @aj523 -- great dynamics, good presence, but a little too ’in your face’ for my taste. I also felt that the upper midrange was a bit too pronounced. I was definitely feeling listener fatigue after about 30 mins or so. I also felt that they were lacking a bit in finesse. The bass was there but not as tight or punchy as I thought it would be. I’m very much aware of the fact that it might have been the room, although it was pretty well treated.
I had a brief listen to Sonus Faber Olympica Nova III which the same dealer also carries. Now these babies are very, very impressive. I had heard the previous version of Olympica III about 2-3 years ago at the same dealer, but these are definitely a step up. I felt emotionally connected to the Novas, they just had that little something that was missing in the Devores. More refined and laid back but not in a boring way. I’m now seriously considering the SF Olympica Nova as another option to explore. |
The dealer was driving the speakers with Audio Research separates. I don't remember the exact model but I think the combined price for the premap and amp was upwards of $15000. My opinion is that this is a great choice for folks who like the modern sound of Focal and KEF but still want a dose of the old school magic.
One thing that I'm learning about myself is that I generally don't care for high sensitivity speakers. This is not to say they're inferior in any way, just not my cup of tea. Having said that, I don't mean to imply that the Devores are not great speakers, far from it. Just not for me.
Right now, I'm leaning heavily towards Super HL5+, or Sonus Faber Olympica Nova. @twoleftears Thank you for suggesting Vienna Acoustics. I'm not sure if there are any dealers in my city that carry it, but I'll definitely check it out. |
Yesterday I went to the house of a local seller who has listed his Harbeth Super HL5+ for sale. Suffice to say I was totally underwhelmed. I don't know if it was his setup (some Line Magnetic tube amp) or room, but I just found the sound to be bland. I have had P3esr's for more than two years now, so I'm quite familiar with the Harbeth sound. I was expecting a bigger, more expansive scale which was completely missing.
Based on what I've read about the speakers, I'm inclined to think it must have been the setup. Also, despite the size I think pairing them with a subwoofer is almost a necessity if you want to venture outside of jazz or classical at all. Any owners of SHL5+ please feel free to chime in if you feel that my impressions are way off target. The reason I say this is because when I first got the P3esr's I was similarly disappointed, but after pairing them with a Cronus Magnum II they have become one of my favorite all time speakers.
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The numbers I posted were for the SHL5+ by the way. |
@bjesien So far I've listened to Harbeth SHL5+, Focal Kanta, Devore O96, KEF Reference 1, Sonus Faber Olympica Nova II, Proac (can't remember the exact model), and B&W 802D.
I have already crossed out Kanta, Proac and B&W 802D from my list. They were awesome and competent speakers but I just couldn't connect emotionally. I have not heard Focal Sopra yet, which I heard are much smoother compared to Kanta. Other than SF and Harbeth, the one that came closest was KEF Ref 1.
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@jjss49 Thanks, and yes I am quit aware that Harbeth's don't excel at rock and roll, which is absolutely not a requirement for me :)
BTW, I saw a local ad for Proac D48R and figured I should check it out. So I went to his house a few hours ago to see if I'd like them. From what I understand the retail price was $10,900 in 2016, and the buyer is asking for $6200. I don't know if this is a good price for Proac or not. I do like the fact that I don't have to pay for shipping, and the speakers are pretty much in pristine condition.
However, the important point is that the D48R did not bowl me over. Having said that, I don't want to give up on them just yet for various reasons. First of all, the seller's room was far from perfect. The toe-in was a little too extreme, he was driving them with some PS Audio Class D amplification, and the speakers were about 2-3 feet away from the front wall. One of the couches was too close to the right speaker. From what I've heard, these speakers prefer tubes, and can be very picky about upstream components. Now what I did like was the vocals and soundstage. The midrange was not as magical as the Harbeths, but they were also not too 'in your face' like some Focals. I don't want to write them off because of acoustic shortcomings of the room or associated gear. I would love to hear from someone who owns, or has owned, the Proac D48Rs. |
@yatra86 -- congratulations! The Proacs 48Rs are pretty awesome. If the seller lives in Allen, then it's the same guy. When I last checked his ad on craigslist, he had dropped the asking price by $1000 ... I'm hoping you didn't pay his original asking price :)
Also, I have no doubt that the speakers sound great in your setup. It was not my place to tell the original owner how awful the speakers sounded in his room, but my god it was horrible! I couldn't believe someone would spend over ten grand on amazing speakers and pair them with components that do not compliment them, and not give any thought to positioning.
Based on my research (when I was seriously considering the Proacs), these tend to pair well with tube amplification. Talk to @jjss49 or @milpai, I think both own Proacs and have taken the effort to set them up properly. They can surely point you in the right direction. |
