Determining current flow to install "audiophile" fuses.

 
atmasphere
4,835 posts
06-03-2016 12:39pm
Geoffkait: Uh, problem is its not his experience,. Its just the old ivory tower academic type thing in action.

to which Atmasphere replied,

"No- its the willingness to acknowledge that people hear something (the 'ivory tower' type would have written it off as expectation bias or swamp gas), and then find out why."

Ah, so you've heard the difference in fuse contacts? Maybe you mean someone you know.  ;-)

Geoffkait: "Where is all this angst and hostility coming from?"

to which Mapman responded,

"Look in the mirror."

Mapman, I took your advice and looked in the mirror. However I did not see my reflection. What’s up with that? Apparently no thread is too "old" for you to over post.

Nice stalking with you.

Georgie, are you experiencing a full moon down under or something?

Czarivey wrote,

"I believe that OP was just joking and perhaps laughing his AO, but Machina Dynamica takes it VERY SERIOUSLY LOL!
Rock on Geoff, Fly your thoughts free.
Peace brother!"

You believe the OP was joking?  I see an English refresh course in your future.  Keep an open mind but not so open your brain falls out.  Things a little slow at Pizza Hut, hippy dude?

Bdp24 wrote,

"To make sense, the maker of fuses claimed to be directional would have to have either:

1- Manufactured the wire used in his fuses (having control over the manufacturing would facilitate him keeping track of the directional properties of that wire. Do any of the audiophile fuse makers claim to manufacture the wire they use in their fuses?)"

Excellent, excellent! Did you just take some smart pills or something? Of course the fuse manufacturer would have to keep track of the wire in terms of the correct direction and ensure that the correct direction is maintained throughout the whole manufacturing process. It sounds complicated but it’s actually not and fuse manufacturers - just like cable manufacturers - have been doing just that twenty years. Hel-looo! PS the fuse manufacturers don’t actually have to manufacture the wire. All they would have to do is check for directionality when the big spool of wire arrives. Then the directionality of the wire for the rest of the entire spool is known. Of course, some fuse manufacturers might produce their own wire, who knows? But it wouldn’t matter, the methodology would be the same.

Mapman wrote,

"Its probably a safe assumption that most people still do not care about fuse sound or wire direction. Including me for the most part."

Of course the average knuckle dragger on the street doesn't care about much of anything related to high end audio. There's a lot of dismissive attitudes around, but that's not a good thing. 

Cheerios

Wolfman wrote,

"I would bet that if you snuck into a "fuse-centric" audiophile’s listening room and reversed all the fuses exactly nobody would know…the fun part starts when years later you tell ’em about it."

Actually, it would be the skeptic who wouldn’t be able to hear the difference if you snuck into his room and reversed his cheap stock fuses. You know, since 50% of his cheap stock fuses are inserted in the wrong direction to begin with. Thus reversing them all would result in, you guessed it, 50% of the fuses would still be in the wrong direction. And the sound would be just as bad as it was in the first place. The fun starts.....now!

Somebody's been tuning in RT a little too much.

;-)

I’m a big Sophie Shevardnadze fan, myself.

"There won’t be any directionality if the fuse is used in an AC circuit. Its really really hard to see how such a fuse could then be used in a DC circuit and impart any directionality whatsoever. I’d love to see the explanation on that one!!"

How odd. I suspect the primary use those squirrely aftermarket fuses is actually in AC circuits. I shall send out an all-hands email of the highest urgency immediately if not sooner.

I have no reason to doubt that.


;-)

Atmasphere wrote,

"FWIW we have gotten good reports on some of the boutique fuses from our customers. No-one has ever asked about directionality, and all our fuse positions are AC circuits. Since AC has to go in both directions, it follows that directionality is impossible. In fact, if the fuse were in any way directional, it would heat up and fail almost instantly!"


Just because you have gotten good reports from customers doesn't mean that directionality is not true. And because no one ever asked about directionality doesn’t mean it’s not true. A lot of folks are unaware of the issue.  No one has said that the fuse will not work when its in the "wrong direction." That's a uh, Strawman Argument. Because many if not most aftermarket fuses incorporate a number of features such as vibration control, EMI/RFI rejection and perhaps others, directionality is NOT the only issue involved for boutique fuses. Whereas it generally is for stock fuses. Thus, aftermarket fuses inserted in the WRONG DIRECTION will usually sound BETTER than the stock fuse - even if the stock fuse happened to have been in the CORRECT position. A fuse in the wrong direction doesn’t instantly heat up and fail. Half of all ordinary stock fuses are in the wrong direction since their orientation is random. Nobody pays attention to directionality at the manufacturer side. Ooops, my bad.

Ordinary stock fuses, which are also directional, you know, due to the orientation of the "grain" of the crystal structure of the metal conductor created by pulling the wire through the final die. They do not explode if they are in the "wrong" direction, since 50% of stock fuses ARE obviously in the WRONG direction. but the sound quality IS diminished. Cats like to be stroked in the direction of their fur not against it, and porcupines like to be stroked in the direction of their quills, not against it. Lol By the same token, reversing interconnects that were inserted randomly between components will improve the sound 50% of the time for the same reason. It’s a wire directionality issue. It’s why many boutique cable manufacturers have been putting directional arrows on their cables for twenty five years. Hel-loo!

Atmasphere also wrote,

"IOW the directionality thing is a myth."

IOW the belief that the fuse is not directional is an old wives tale.

cheers,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
we do artificial atoms right

The original monster cable, which came with arrows indicating the direction of current flow were actually unshielded cables. They had clear jackets so you could see the (unshielded) copper right through them. So you can’t use the excuse that the directionality is a shielding issue (only). Besides, many audiophile interconnects have had arrows on them for more than 20 years. They are unshielded cables, at least many if them are. This is not to say shielded designs need to be inserted in the right direction shielding wise, but unless the manufacturer was smart enough to maintain the directionality of the conductor it’s still going to be somewhat messed up. All wire is direction. Accept the inevitable.

Exhibit A

Excerpt from post on Steve Hoffman's website, circa 2004,

"....but two good guys I respect and know are George Cardas and Bill Low of Audioquest. Here is what Bill Low says about directionality:

"Directionality: All cables are directional, from hardware store electrical cable to the finest pure silver cables. All AudioQuest cables are marked for direction. With other cables it might be necessary to simply listen to the cables in one direction and then the other. The difference will be clear-in the correct direction the music is more relaxed, pleasant and believable. While cable directionality is not fully understood, it is clear that the molecular structure of drawn metal is not symmetrical, providing a physical explanation for the existence of directionality.""

Too bad, Mapman.  If you had the original ones, the ones I had, you wouldn't be in the fix you're in.  

ptss wrote,

"Which 'cables' are we-or thay- talking about geoffkait?"

Haven't you been paying attention. All cables. Hel-loo!

"Fuse directionality is not something exclusive to only high-end fuses. I found that even cheaper fuses have a preferred direction. One way to find out is to look at the cap ends with a magnifying glass. I found that the majority will have the power rating stamped on one end, and the other will usually have an assortment of symbols. Yes, I found the OEM fuses even sound better in one direction, but not the same as the high-end ones. I have the Hi-Fi Supreme fuses. Before plunging, I tried ceramic fuses of the same rating as the OEM. They sounded a bit smoother than the OEM. I simply diagrammed on a paper the direction using the cap's indicators. So far, its been consistent for each fuse. They key is, one direction will sound smoother in comparison."

excellent, excellent...

Mapman wrote,

"Well I guess if one is a theoretical physicist one can propose pretty much anything they want. After all it’s all, you know, theoretical. Some might even buy into the theory. Funny how these things work.

Also so I feel slighted a bit in that I don’t expect others won’t hear something just because I didn’t yet some expect most all will because they and others think they do. All that despite the fact that even the most knowledgeable EEs on this sight have clearly expressed their views which normally get a lot of traction..."

Actually the whole directionality thing is probably more of a physics issue than a EE issue, which is probably why we cannot seem to get any explanations from EEs. I have been involved with the atomic physics of crystals for eons. One need look no further than my Brillaint Pebbles, the first comprehensive application of mineral crystals to high end audio and I won’t get into the paper I presented in school at the national AIAA conference on the design of a low thrust rocket engine for interplanetary travel that employed metal crystals bombarded by high energy Xenon ions to develop a net thrust from atoms sputtered from the metal surface. Ergo, for the metal conductor of cables, you know, what with the crystal lattice strictest that get deformed when the wire is drawn through the final die, and of fuses, the directionality they exhibit is acually a physics issue more than a EE one.

George’s latest input duly noted. I appreciate all the angst nevertheless, guys.

Geoff Kait
machina dynamica
no goats no glory

"What you are most likely hearing is the warm-up of the unit after its been powered down in order to replace the fuse. I think you will find that this is repeatable, regardless of which direction the fuse is installed. This is an excellent example of expectation bias."

No, actually it can’t be expectation bias or warming up of the component, inadvertently scraping off the dirt or oxide from the fuse holder or even placebo effect. We’ve already been over that. You can easily eliminate those possibilities through careful testing.  It’s due to the non-symmetrical orientation of the crystals in the conductor. I can provide a paragraph describing the Backfire Effect if anyone is interested. No strings attached. Ironically the reverse expectation bias might actually explain why some people can’t hear directionality.

Czarivey wrote,

"" Ironically the reverse expectation bias might actually explain why some people can’t hear directionality"

Geoff,

Can you recommend a qualified MD to cure my inability to hear direction of the fuse?"

Actually I can:   Dr. Phil. Thanks for asking.

Al, thanks for your astute arguments, in fact HiFi Tuning agrees with you that the differences are quite small and they state that the small differences do not seem to explain the (large) differences in sound between the two directions. By the way, HiFi Tuning is not the only aftermarket fuse co. to mark their fuses with arrows so it's not as if HiFi tuning is the only one company claiming directionality of fuses. So, you cannot actually win the argument by attacking HiFi Tuning.  Be that as it may, I feel it’s only fair and relevant to point out that audio interconnects - and here I’m referring to unshielded ICs so as not to confuse anyone - are directional.... and easily demonstrated to be directional. Just like fuses, it’s how the wire of the conductor is manufactured that determines it’s sonic directionality. That directionality (of the metal conductor) is precisely why many high end audio cable manufacturers provide ARROWS on their cables to indicate the direction that current is flowing between components. It doesn’t take much of a lead of faith, except perhaps for died in the wool skeptics, to see that ALL wire is directional.

geoff kait

Georgelofi wrote,

"And I still challenge any member to show a publicly seen doc that a manufacturers fuse is directional."

ill take that challenge. The measurements of many different fuses in terms of directionality are provided on HiFi Tuning’s web site. Stock fuses, HiFi Tuning fuses, other fuses, they’re all directional. For both DC and AC circuits. Hel-loo! Furthermore the effects of cryogenic treatment are also measurable and contained in the HiFi Tuning data sheets. Isoclean fuses also come with a directional arrow. 

geoff kait

George, please don’t put words in my mouth. I’m not referring to ICs with shields as that’s a different issue. I’m referring to ICs without shields. They are directional and have always been directional. And for the same reason that all fuses are directional. By the way I totally get the backfire effect. No worries.

George, obviously unless the cable manufacturer keeps track of the directionality of all wire the result will not be satisfactory.  If a cable manufacturer knows what he's doing having multiple conductors in a cable is not going to be a problem.  

pop quiz, are stranded cables directional? Are power cords directional?

answers at 11.

George wrote,

"Power cables have three wires, re-read my last post, sorry but you are becoming a lost cause, and can’t see the forest through the trees."

In my defense power cords can often have only two "wires." Both of which are almost always stranded. And both of which, like all wires, are directional. Follow? As for the third wire, isn’t that the ground? I.e., it’s not really a conductor.

George wrote,

"OK show us a power cord with two wire connection that has directionality advertised in the manufacturers POSTED docs/details. (not just an arrow on the wire.)"

What would be the point? If you’ve made up your mind already, and it looks like you have, nothing I say will change your mind. That’s the beauty of the Backfire Effect. The more evidence is presented and the longer the debate continues the more convinced the skeptic is that’s he’s right. Happens all the time. He just continues to demand proof. Prove it, prove it! All wire is physically asymmetrical due to being pulled through the final die.  That's what make the wire directional sonically.  Make sense? So for stranded cables each tiny little strand is directional, and the entire bundle of strands is also directional. Follow?

Al thanks for the recap. However the statements you provided, including second hand testimony, for the most, part are excellent examples of both Strawman Arguments and Appeals to Authority, both of which as it turns out are logical fallacies. Here is my recap of your arguments.

Strawman Argument

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.[1]

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]

This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.

Allegedly, straw-man tactics were once known in some parts of the United Kingdom as an Aunt Sally, after a pub game of the same name where patrons threw sticks or battens at a post to knock off a skittle balanced on top.[4][5]

Appeal to Authority

Argument from authority, also ad verecundiam and appeal to authority, is a common form of argument which leads to a logical fallacy.[1]

In informal reasoning, the appeal to authority is a form of argument attempting to establish a statistical syllogism.[2] The appeal to authority relies on an argument of the form:[3]

A is an authority on a particular topic
A says something about that topic
A is probably correct
Fallacious examples of using the appeal include any appeal to authority used in the context of logical reasoning, and appealing to the position of an authority or authorities to dismiss evidence,[4][5][6][7] as authorities can come to the wrong judgments through error, bias, dishonesty, or falling prey to groupthink. Thus, the appeal to authority is not a generally reliable argument for establishing facts.[8]

geoff kait
machina dynamica

Mapman wrote,

""It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
― Mark Twain"

"Folks would generally be much better off if they believed in too much rather than too little." - PT Barnum

"An ordinary man has no means of deliverance." - Wm. Burroughs 

Al wrote,

"BTW, when I referred to cable effects essentially all being proportional to length I should make it clear that I was referring to power wiring."

Nice try but there is no such law as you seem to be implying. Mapman will probably buy it, though. That’s a Strawman argument by the way, I.e., a statement of "fact" intended to win the argument. Perhaps you can commiserate with the defense electronics dude.

George wrote,

"Ok now that you’ve said this, show where this is quoted that a 1/2" piece of resistance wire is directional.? Or is it your voodoo thought on the subject, and is not quoted anywhere else by any manufacturer of their fuse product?"

I just gave you two fuse manufacturers (HiFi Tuning and Isoclean) who have stated or implied (by putting directional arrows on their fuses) that, uh, fuses are directional. Did you fall asleep again?

Mapman wrote,

"" Mapman will probably buy it, though. "

Personal attack! Very hypocritical. I guess its OK when you do it just like anything else.

Someone should toss this guy already."

It's no a personal attack so relax. Besides, it is true, isn’t it, you will buy whatever Al says, no?

Excerpt from the introduction of Zen and the Art of Debunkery:

"As the millennium turns, science seems in many ways to be treading the weary path of the religions it presumed to replace. Where free, dispassionate inquiry once reigned, emotions now run high in the defense of a fundamentalized "scientific truth." As anomalies mount up beneath a sea of denial, defenders of the Faith and the Kingdom cling with increasing self-righteousness to the hull of a sinking paradigm. Faced with provocative evidence of things undreamt of in their philosophy, many otherwise mature scientists revert to a kind of skeptical infantilism characterized by blind faith in the absoluteness of the familiar. Small wonder, then, that so many promising fields of inquiry remain shrouded in superstition, ignorance, denial, disinformation, taboo . . . and debunkery.

• Put on the right face. Cultivate a condescending air certifying that your personal opinions are backed by the full faith and credit of God. Adopting a disdainful, upper-class manner is optional but highly recommended.

• Employ vague, subjective, dismissive terms such as "ridiculous," "trivial," "crackpot," or "bunk," in a manner that purports to carry the full force of scientific authority.

• Keep your arguments as abstract and theoretical as possible. This will send the message that accepted theory overrides any actual evidence that might challenge it -- and that therefore no such evidence is worth examining.

• By every indirect means at your disposal imply that science is powerless to police itself against fraud and misperception, and that only self-appointed vigilantism can save it from itself.

• Portray science not as an open-ended process of discovery but as a pre-emptive holy war against invading hordes of quackery-spouting infidels. Since in war the ends justify the means, you may fudge, stretch or violate the scientific method, or even omit it entirely, in the name of defending it.

• Reinforce the popular fiction that our scientific knowledge is complete and finished. Do this by asserting that "if such-and-such discovery were legitimate, then surely we would already know about it!"

• Deny the possibility of phenomena for which no plausible explanations have been advanced. Ignore such contrary examples as the existence of disease prior to the discovery of microbes, the sun's copious production of energy long before the discovery of nuclear fusion, and the stubborn persistence of gravity despite our stubborn ignorance of its inner workings."

cheers, 

geoff kait

Psssst wrote,

"geoff the genius educating all,how nice"

well, and I hate to judge too quickly, not all


:-)

bdp24

"So there ARE (not shouting, but my ’puter doesn’t offer italicization) bulk wire manufacturers (specifically the ones from whom the fuse makers claiming directionality get their wire) who offer direction-orientated wire, and indicate the "flow" direction of the wire on their spools? I don’t suppose one such wire maker can be cited?"

recall from HiFi Tuning data sheets wire measures differently, albeit slightly, in one direction vs the other.Thus all the fuse manufacturer has to do is to cut the first small section of wire off the spool and measure the voltage drop across the wire, both ways. Voila! And if the fuse manufacturer makes his own wire he can see how the wire comes off the final die. So he just tags the wire to keep track of the direction. It’s not rocket science. I just saved you a phone call to a fuse manufacturer. Besides, we already know all wire is directional. 

Thom wrote,

"Your comment regarding directionality of interconnects doesn’t belong in this discussion. A large percentage of interconnects are shielded and should be plugged in according to the directionality that the manufacturer specifies. No, I have not run a statistical survey of the percentage of cables that are shielded.

To those of you who don’t know what this means from a hookup perspective, the outer shield is tied to the RCA ground at only one side. The shield "floats" at the other side."

As I already stated I’m not referring to shielded designs. An example of an interconnect that comes with directional arrows but is NOT shielded is the ANTICABLES IC. The reason unshielded cables come with directional arrows is because the conductor itself is directional. ANTICABLES cables comprise only a (solid core) conductor with connectors. Thus, like fuses, and unlike shielded cables, they are perfectly symmetrical; so it must be the *wire itself* that produces directionality. Follow?

From Anti Cables website: "The ANTICABLES Analog RCA Interconnects use the same design concept as the award winning ANTICABLES Speaker Wires. They use only the materials needed (solid core wire and connectors). Those materials are of very high sonic quality, and unnecessary materials such as thick plastic jacketing are eliminated. They are simple, cost effective, and perform very very well..."

geoff kait
machina dynamica
advanced audio concepts

George wrote,

"Let just say GK your bu****it is correct and that it is directional, do you honestly believe that you have the "Golden Ears" to be able to pick it up with just 1/2" of wire.

Then sunshine, what about all the feet of copper tracks of the circuit board itself, are you going to turn them around too so they are in the right direction as well!!! VOODOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

As I’ve stated on many occasions all wire is directional by virtue of the physical asymmetry placed on it when it is pulled through the final die. Thus ANY wire anywhere in the system is directional and best sound from a component will be achieved if whoever put the thing together was cognizant of wire directionality and ensured that all wiring was installed in the correct direction.

As for your example of the copper traces used in printed circuit boards I’ll take your word for it they are "wire" and not some sort of chemical etching or lamination that is not directional. But let’s say for the sake of argument that the internal wiring in a component is all hand wired point to point, without any circuit boards. Then yes, attention should be paid to directionality for all internal wiring - at least all the wire in the signal path. Make sense?

Cheers,

geoff kait @ machinadynamica.com
No goats no glory

George, I take it you're forfeiting?  Excellent move.

cheerios

Thom wrote,

"Your excluding shielded designs from the discussion is a bit of a strawman, since the vast majority of cables are shielded and therefore have directionality "mandated" by the shield connection, which I’d hazard a guess has a random relationship with the orientation of the signal wire’s directionality in cables from most manufacturers.

Of course, one can reverse the connection of shielded cables with (electrical impunity)."

Actually I didn’t exclude shielded designs from the discussion. So your statement is actually the Strawman. What I said was it’s more difficult to establish what’s going on in a shielded design since the sound is directional for BOTH the shield AND the conductor. You can think of it as trying to solve two simultaneous equations. But since I’m a nice guy here’s what you can do. Measure the voltage drop across the shielded interconnect, first one direction then the other. Just like the measurements of the fuses on the HiFi Tuning data sheets. Since the shield is not connected at one end you will be measuring the voltage drop of the conductor only. The voltage drop will be somewhat less one way than the other. Just like the fuses on the HiFi Tuning data sheets. Thus, you will be able to determine which way the *conductor* should be connected in the system. The only issue then will be, does the correct orientation of the shield agree with the correct orientation of the conductor. If the manufacturer was a clever fellow (or a lucky fellow) it will. Follow?

Thom also wrote,

"Fuse directionality? Knock your socks off. As implied earlier however, the experiment needs some controls, and one of them I didn’t see mentioned was simply removing and reinstalling the fuse in the SAME orientation. It’s entirely possible that the act of removing/installing a fuse slightly alters the contact pressure and this is what people are reporting."

You’re absolutely correct, there is a possibility that the contact pressure is somehow altered, or that some oxidation is scraped off during the experiment, or that it’s the placebo effect or expectation bias or some other variable. But if the experiment is done carefully those other possibilities can be eliminated from consideration. Just like for any experiment.

geoff kait
machina dynamica

Czarivey wrote,

"Most of sciences can be easily checked and challenged with elementary math equations. Poor education = strong police and army = lots of wars = lots of dummies that willing to spend money on various type of unnecessary cwap = resisting a free education by all possible means."

Newton’s First Law (Inertia): an object will continue along in the same direction at the same speed unless acted on by an outside force.

F = 0

dv/dt = 0

;-)

cheers,

Geoff Kait
machina dramatica
no goats no glory

Czarivey wrote,

"In terms of Newton's Inertia law with applied theory of limits:
If consumed lots of calories of bs per second, i agree it’s very hard to get rid of those calories. Under Inertia law one will continue consuming bs even if no external force is applied."

Apparently somebody's been consuming a lot of Bunnahabhain Scotch (bs).

Thom wrote, 

"...and I’ll get back to my amplifier project before further damage ensues."

Speaking of amplifiers, assuming for the sake of argument that all wire is directional, imagine how much better Amplifier A would be if all internal wiring was connected with directionality in mind.  Point to point wiring, transformer wiring, capacitors, resistors, etc. And of course all cabling coming into and leaving the amplifier.

g

Thom, no harm, no foul. These guys beat you to the punch in this thread. The shielding argument is probably the leading argument used by skeptics of wire directionality. Followed closely by oxidation on contacts removed during test, placebo effect, expectation bias and a change in house AC voltage.

Atmasphere: "There can be reasons why a cable has directionality (mostly having to do with how the shield is constructed; this has nothing to do with fuses)."

Mapman: "Right my understanding is the reason the Monster wires are directional as indicated is because of the shield implementation. That’s pretty much the only reason that I have read of. My MIT wires have no indicators and I can’t say if it matters or not there. Fuses are a different story. Most high end audio fuse makers seem to leave a lot to the end listener’s imagination."

Georgelofi: "Yes you are correct some interconnects can be directional, ones that have +&- conductors with a shield, that’s only connected at one end, that end should be at poweramp.

But fuses are not shielded. And I still ask you or anyone else to post any manufacturers ad/doc that SAYS they are directional. "It’s all VOODOO" that you are promoting."

Cheers,

Geoff Kait
machina dynamica

Atmasphere wrote,

"So far all the comments we have received on boutique fuses have been positive. However for all those comments, not one of them has mentioned anything about directionality."

Chances are good any customers who know you doesn’t wish to irritate you by bringing up fuse directionality. ;-)

Atmasphere also wrote,

"The feedback we have goes back about to about 2006 or so when the fuses seemed to move from the automotive stereo community to high end audio."

Autmotive stereo community? Say what?! Exotic fuses were introduced twenty years ago by Isoclean (Japan) and HiFi Tuning (Germany) to the high end audio community. Hel-loo!

Geoff Kait
Machinadynamica.com

Point of fact is they seem to get the attention of non audiophiles and pseudo audiophiles more often.

;-)

Hey, did you hear that Phil Collins is making a record for the first time in a long time?  He's back in the Stu-stu-studio.

Atmasphere, you've convinced me that your customers didn't mention fuse directionality.  However, that fact is hardly proof or even evidence that "boutique" fuses as you call them are NOT directional. You seem to believe it's actually proof.

Czarivey, where is all this angst and hostility coming from?  Are you guys auditioning for 12 Angry Comrades?

I really wish you would try to keep up with the discussion, George. When a manufacturer marks it’s fuses with directional arrows it means they believe their fuses are uh, directional. When a manufacturer publishes detailed measurement data that shows differences in resistance depending on direction of the fuse it means the manufacturer believes fuses are directional. And not just fancy audiophile fuses; and not just fuses in DC applications. Every Yutz with ears knows that all fuses are directional. Wake up and smell the coffee! PS - It’s hard to see what your new avatar is. I’m guessing it’s supposed to be a loose cannon. Am I close?

Atmasphere wrote,

"Incorrect. They don’t mark the fuse with arrows indicating its directionality, they mark it with a logo that is easily confused. This is done to buy into the myth that fuses are directional, and thus they sell more fuses. There is no directional data that exists, at least none that can be verified by independent test."

I hate to speak before all the facts are in but it kind of appears that you are the only one confused by the symbol that looks pretty much like an arrow. What makes matters worse for your position is that the HiFi Tuning fuses actually sound considerably better when the arrow thingie is pointed in the right direction. At least that’s what people who have actually heard the HiFi Tuning fuses say. Furthermore Isoclean has actual, you know, arrows that should not be so darn confusing on their fuses. Have for twenty years. The test data sheets on the HiFi Tuning web site are actually from an independent testing facility. Hel-loo! As it turns out you have apparently bought into the old wives take that fuses are not directional.

The more you try to convince someone who has his mind made up using logic and rational debate the more convinced he is that everyone else is wrong, trying to trick him or there’s some global conspiracy. Lol

geoff kait

George, et tu, Brute?

idle observation: there appears to be no joy in Mudville today.


:-)