Determining current flow to install "audiophile" fuses.

Thom wrote,

"Another consideration regarding directionality. A fuse which is properly specified for the circuit is half way toward melting."

How so, Thom? If that’s actually true, what is the relationship of being "half way toward melting" to directionality? Just curious.  

Someone wrote and George quoted, in reference to Black Fuses,

"- I feel there was a very, very subtle loss of realism in instrument/vocal texture."

Interesting...hmmmmm

Al wrote,

"BTW, Geoff has said at least one thing in this thread that I agree with, although he did not originate the saying. From one of his posts above: Keep an open mind but not so open your brain falls out."

That's true, I did not originate the saying.  Skeptics did. That’s what Skeptics always say, you know, as if the thing in question is too preposterous to grasp or accept or disobeys some Law of Physics or another. It just turns out that aftermarket fuses and fuse directionality seem to push all the right Skeptic buttons. Lol Which is I why I posted that particular little gem of a Skeptics creedo. Of course, skeptics actually never investigate the claims they rail against. It’s almost as if they’re afraid of the truth. Frankly I don’t really believe they’re particularly open minded, now that you mention it. They kind of pretend to be open minded. At the risk of being repetitive, here’s the bit from the intro to Zen and the Art of Debunkery that seem to apply rather well here,

"As the millennium turns, science seems in many ways to be treading the weary path of the religions it presumed to replace. Where free, dispassionate inquiry once reigned, emotions now run high in the defense of a fundamentalized "scientific truth." As anomalies mount up beneath a sea of denial, defenders of the Faith and the Kingdom cling with increasing self-righteousness to the hull of a sinking paradigm. Faced with provocative evidence of things undreamt of in their philosophy, many otherwise mature scientists revert to a kind of skeptical infantilism characterized by blind faith in the absoluteness of the familiar. Small wonder, then, that so many promising fields of inquiry remain shrouded in superstition, ignorance, denial, disinformation, taboo . . . and debunkery."

"If folks believed in too much rather than too little they would be much better off generally." - PT Barnum

geoff kait
machina dynamica

Mapman wrote,

"It’s easy to label someone a skeptic if they disagree with something, anything."

There are skeptics who believe the US carried out the attacks of 911 and they have lots of "evidence" to back it up. Ditto the moon landing. I would probably label them pseudo skeptics.

Mapman also wrote,

"Best to avoid labels but that won’t stop people with agendas."

My agenda is to uncover the truth that has been buried by people with agendas.

Nonoise wrote,

"Can we all agree that this scarecrow pretty much sums this thread up?"

I get it.  Scarecrow.  Strawman.  Yup, that pretty much sums it up.  

No noise wrote,

"Naw, it was to imply that there’s no real answer here that can be agreed upon."

Let’s just write the whole thing off as another one of those controversial things that get audiophiles’ goat. If someone didn’t come along many years after Einstein published his General relativity theory and demonstrate that gravity bends light the science community would still be scratching it’s rather pointed head and muttering the same thing, "There is no real answer that can be agreed upon." Not to mention LIGO finally observed gravity waves from a merger of two monster black holes just a couple months ago, confirming Einstein's prediction - 100 years after the fact.

"Also in order for the experiment to have any validity at all you would have to be able to re create the same situation , over and over and over again. i.e. you should be able to hear that if someone had changed the direction of the fuse without your knowledge - I’d state that this would be impossible."

Of course it could be a lot of things. It COULD be a change in house AC voltage, it could be a change in the weather, it could be oxidation is removed from the fuse holder, it could be explained by a change in the time from day until late at night, changing something else in the system at the same time of the fuse change, the placebo effect or any number of other things. We already know that. It’s the same for the test of ANYTHING. Do you think audiophiles fell off the turnip truck yesterday? And why is it the skeptics who always accuse audiophiles of doing tests incorrectly never actually roll up their sleeves and do the test themselves?  Hmmmmm...

Mapman wrote,

"Expectation bias expectation bias is no doubt a factor. I did the audiophile fuse thing recently with a synergistic red fuse in my arc sp 16 recently using a fuse given to me to try. I thought I heard some difference with that versus stock fuse at first but could not be certain after repeated tries. Reversing directions did nothing. I wanted to hear something but did not feel compelled to having been given the fuse."

Your lack of success with the Red fuse and with fuse directionality is duly noted.

Mitch wrote,

"I don't do it myself because I don't hear a discernable difference between fuses, but I am open to trying to understand, just not so open to BS."

Your inability to discern differences between fuses and presumably to discern differences in fuse direction is duly noted.  

Mitch wrote,

"Much discussion here about trusting your ears and how science cannot explain everything and yet, I am skeptical about the level of sonic difference (if any) that can be attributed to changing a fuse. I am exponentially more skeptical about those who claim to clearly hear sonic differences between the installation direction of a fuse.

Have any of you who hear these differences ever really put that belief to the test? I don’t mean changing the fuse and then proclaiming how the sonic difference/improvement is clearly evident but rather a more challenging method of testing your ability to ascertain differences or improvements after changing a fuse?

Here is a challenge;

1. Select two fuses that can be easily identified (e.g. Red and Black, etc.)
2. Insert one of the fuses in whichever of your equipment you believe displays the greatest sonic impact from changing the fuse
3. Listen for a reasonably extended period of hours to days using a variety of your familiar music, and take notes so you have a record of how the fuse sounds to you, and then repeat with the second fuse - keep track of which fuse is which in your notes
4. Enlist the help of a spouse or friend to install one of the two fuses and keep a record of which fuse is installed, but do not let them tell you which it is (for the test, make sure your spouse/friend installs the fuses in the same direction as you did under steps 2 and 3)
5. Listen again for a similar extended period, compare what you hear with your initial two sets of listening notes and then write down which fuse you believe is installed
6. Repeat this process at least 5 times with the spouse/friend switching, or perhaps sometimes not switching, fuses but using each of the two fuses a nearly equal amount of times
7. At the end, let us know how many times you correctly identified which fuse was installed

If the differences between fuses are as profound as described in this thread, then I suspect many of you will guess correctly every time. I would be curious to hear how you make out, and even more curious how you you do using the same procedure applied to the directionality of one fuse...any takers....Geoff?"

You’re kidding, right? It was only a matter of time before controlled blind testing reared it’s ugly head on this thread. I’m kind of surprised it hasn’t been brought up before now. Why, it's as if just bringing up the subject of controlled blind testing is supposed to scare the fuse affectioados into submission. Lol Your test procedure is even more complicated than The Amazing Randi’s Million Dollar Challenge test procedure and that’s saying something. If you’re so high on your test why not do it yourself? Let us know how it works out.

Mapman wrote,

"I'm sure anyone selling high profit fuses is all for them."

Psychiatrist:  How much is a loaf of bread?
Rainman: It's about a dollar.
Psychiatrist: How much is a car?
Rainman: It's about a dollar.

It's getting so bad you need a scorecard to tell the difference between a skeptic and someone who's just superstitious.

Mitch wrote,

"If someone hears an improvement in their system for a cost of "only" $120....or $174, then great. My current system has 10 fuses, so I could easily spend between $1-2K replacing fuses and I would hope to hear a significant improvement for that money."

I have some good news for you. You can obtain a reasonably big improvement for nothing. Gee, how can I do that?, you ask. Easy, just reverse each of your stock fuses one at a time. You may have to wait a period of time between each audition depending on how long it takes your system to warm up.  I recommend not trying auditions with a cold system. Listen after each time you reverse a fuse to see if the sound improves or gets worse. When the fuse is in the correct direction the sound will be noticeably more open, natural sounding and coherent. If the fuse is in the wrong direction the sound will be relatively harsh and thin sounding and less realistic. After you have done that for all 10 fuses you will have considerably better sound than you started out with. You have my guarantee. Go on the assumption that 5 of the 10 fuses are in the wrong direction, but it could be a little more or a little less. If you can’t tell if the sound improves or gets worse for a particular fuse leave it as is and proceed to the next fuse. After you have auditioned all ten fuses you can repeat the process to see if you might have guessed wrong on a fuse or two. This whole exercise should be especially revealing since you have 10 fuses,

geoff at Machina Dynamica

Mitch wrote,

"Geoff’s immediate response about controlled blind testing rearing "it’s ugly head" the "Amazing Randi" and trying to "scare the fuse affectionados into submission" is as negative as anything I posted."

I realize my comments can be perceived as negative but actually I’m only trying to be helpful and uh, positive. The reason I made the statement that controlled blind testing raised it’s ugly head is simply because many skeptics use blind testing as sort of the arbiter of controversial tweaks like fuses, as if blind testing will PROOVE that the controversial tweak in question - like a fuse - doesn’t work as advertised. The reality is that no tests not even blind tests, in and of themselves, can PROOVE that the thing in question doesn’t work as advertised. Any test, blind test or whatever, is only a data point to be considered along with other tests. There are many reasons a test can yield negative results so one must take results from any test with a grain of salt.

The reason I mentioned The Amazing Randi is because (1) at one time he offered a Million Dollars to anyone who can hear the difference between really expensive audiophile cables and cheap audio cables, (2) he offered a Million Dollars to anyone who could pass the controlled blind test for the Intelligent Chip, and (3) because your humble scribe was the subject of five of The Amazing Randi’s diatribes published in his weekly Nesletter; it was probably the Intelligent Chip and the Clever Little Clock and the Teleportation Tweak that got him all wound up.

See, it’s all good. It’s all positive.

geoff kait
machina dynamica

Mitch wrote,

"I will say that I did not know Randi inserted himself into the cable controversy or that he actually has a personal history with you and your products Geoff so I will chalk that up to "you learn something every day." My knowledge of him was related to his paranormal abilities challenge. Now I understand your response better."

More good stuff. It was actually Michael Fremer of Stereophile who was going to take the Million Dollar Challenge and it was Pear cables that were the subject of the blind test. The person who was going to take the blind test for the Intelligent Chip was a customer of mine who went by the moniker Wellfed over on AA. Both negotiations broke down and the tests were never administered. Although someone else actually took the Chip test subsequently but flunked.  I’m pretty sure The Amazing Randi knew a good thing when he saw it and as the business of exposing dowsers and spoon benders and ghost chasers had run out of steam Randi probably thought, well, what better subject to go after than strange audiophile tweaks and super expensive cables? That’s pretty close to paranormal, no? Close enough for Government work, anyway.

ta ta,

Geoff Kait at Machina Dramatica

Mapman wrote,

"Tests are better than words or theory alone when it comes to how things actually sound."

Actually they aren't. For the very reason that we observe in your results with the Red fuse. You cannot extrapolate or generalize your negative results to make some grand statement such as, "I tried the fuse and didn't hear anything, therefore it doesn't work." Capish? Now, if a lot of folks reported negative results I might be inclined to say, well, the preponderance of the evidence is starting to turn against the whole fuse and fuse directionality thing.  Alas, such is not the case.

Mapman, yes I suppose I have a gift for word. You have a lot of posts, though, so you shouldn't feel too bad. I’m more into quality over quantity, myself. No offense intended. Let the twitching commence!

Geoffkait wrote," You cannot extrapolate or generalize your negative results to make some grand statement such as, "I tried the fuse and didn’t hear anything, therefore it doesn’t work."

To which Mapman retorted,

"Well I did try reversing directions and heard nothing so yes I can."

I know you’d like to be the Lone Ranger in this but actually your test means nothing. Obviously it means a lot to you. Just not to anyone else. Negative results in any experiment can be easily explained any number of ways. Shall I expound on that thought?

Mapman had these afterthoughts,

"Don’t be scared......

You’ve done nothing but run your mouth."

Ouch! Very ouch! (One imagines it’s not much fun being an outlier.)

geoff kait
no goats no glory

PS for Atmasphere: time to catch up to the 21st century. A lot has happened in those 27 years. We have quantum chips and everything! ;-)

Mac48025 wrote,

"I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t have near the knowledge ( practical or theoretical) than most here, but I just can’t seem to hear any difference between stock or audiophile fuses ( regardless of direction)....."You mean I can transform my systems sound for a mere few hundred dollars?". It used to be too tempting for me to pass up, but not anymore. Marketers are great at exploiting our obsession with obtaining audio nirvana. A good glass of Scotch or a martini is all the tweaking I need to take my music listening to the next level."

Hmmmm, one wonders, why do Anti Tweakers oft seem to favor a good strong belt of whiskey over tweaks? ;-) At least Mapman can take some comfort in the fact that there exists another person who cannot hear fuses or directionality of same.

Other famous Skeptic quotes,

"I swear I can’t hear absolute polarity."

"I honestly can’t hear the difference between CD and LP."

"I cannot tell when a CD is dynamically compressed."

"I can’t hear the difference between really expensive cables and Monster Cable."

Cheers (hic)

geoff kait
machina dynamica

Hello, just curious, how can they test a WA Quantum Chip? Has anyone actually tried to test one? I am not referring to listening tests, I’m already on board the whole freewheelin’ WA Chip thing. I’m referring to more uh, traditional tests. For example a fuse WA Quantum Chip. Oh, just an FYI - the first quantum chip, the original orange Intelligent Chip from Golden Sound, celebrated it’s 10th anniversary last year. ;-) There was even chips subsequent to the Intelligent Chip, which was for treating CDs, for placing on power cords and cables.

geoff kait
machina dramatica
we do artificial atoms right

Geoffkait wrote "PS for Atmasphere: time to catch up to the 21st century. A lot has happened in those 27 years. We have quantum chips and everything! ;-)"

to which Atmasphere responded,

"Yes, the quantum chips are a hoax."

That you would say that, in light of my Super Intelligent Chip and the WA Quantum Chip, neither of which is a hoax, my superstitious friend, sort of reinforces my statement that it’s time to play catch up. I can certainly appreciate that everyone has his own thing and that audiophiles and manufacturers tend to get blinders on for other things that are happening, you know like advanced fuses and quantum chips. That focusing on business at hand and ignoring others things is what I like to call Stove Piping. And perhaps it’s time to allow some of quantum mechanics into your thinking. It’s only been what, like a hundred years since quantum mechanics came out?

geoff kait
machina dynamica
we do artificial atoms right

I suggest exercising extreme caution when even mentioning WA Quantum Chips. People will be freaking out all over the place.

Georgelofi wrote,

"Yes the biggest load of BS ever seen/heard since, the Shun Mook Mpingo Discs from the early 90’s another gullible sucker.

I hope members here are not being sucked in by all this voodoo. Your audio equipment is designed by brilliant electronic technicians who have passion for good sound.

Don’t let these shilling witchdoctors here and their cronies that have no idea about the technical/scientific design of audio, suck you in with their voodoo BS!!"

Gee, if Shun Mook Mpingo discs were a hoax what’s with all those rave reviews? Do you reviewers were given a free Shun Mook Mpingo disc for writing a positive review? Or perhaps a big wad of cash? Do you believe there is some sort of global conspiracy related to audiophile tweaks like WA Quantum Chips and fancy fuses and Mpingo discs that is intended to appeal to young, naive and vulnerable audiophiles? Hey, weren’t the Chinese experts at brainwashing? Whaaaaaat? Lol

Georgelofi wrote,

"It’s resistance wire, end of story and 1/2" long at that!!!!"

Yes, it’s resistance wire. Resistance wire that measures better in one direction than the other, in terms of resistance. And it’s only 1/2" long at that!!! Would it be a fair statement to say that if the teeny little wire was say ten feet long the difference in measured resistance would be something to write home about? See where I’m going with this?

Recall the Carbon One conductor cables of yore? Was that Van den Hul? They would not be directional of course, nor would the current line of Stealth Audio pure carbon (nano fibers) conductor cables, no? News Flash! Van den Hul currently produced pure carbon conductor cables, maybe with carbon nanotubes. The plot thickens.

PS - I’m still trying to decode what Thom posted with respect to melting and directionality.

PPS - Say, does anyone happen to know if Jack Bybee is using carbon nanotubes in his new Bybee Bullets?

Bo wrote,

"When you use the chips wrong you will loose a lot of details and even in dynamics. It is easy to change the sound but it needs to be an improvement."

if you ever get a chance try wrapping a WA Quantum Chip for Cables around the House AC wire, the one for the audio circuit, coming into the circuit breaker box. You’ll think you died and went to heaven. Now, you might say, they now have a WA Quantum Chip for Power so just use that. But I say it’s more cost effective to use the Cable chip, since you know, the Power Chip costs five times as much. There should be products for every budget, no? Lol

cheerios

Bo wrote,

"Van den Hul is a very nice person. For a couple of years he was always waiting for me at an audio show which was kept every year.

He always wanted to make a round with me during this show.

I owned and tested his best cables. But these days he is not the best anymore. In my world only the best products count, the rest doesn't make sense."

i hate to judge before all the facts are in but I suspect you probably missed the whole point of my mentioning Van den Hul's carbon cables.  You know, the ones with the amorphous conductor which, unlike metal conductors, is not directional.

g. kait

Czarivey wrote,

OK here’s the thread specifically dedicated to believers so all believers can "transfer" your thoughts there:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/direction-of-aftermarket-fuses-only-for-believers

Wouldn’t it make more sense if you said, "OK here’s the thread specifically dedicated to believers so all trolls can transfer your "thoughts" there?

I suspect the benchmark for Uber Skeptics and Tweakaphobes is whether you laughed so hard that milk squirted out of your mouth. 

Ta ta

"I know, but I think this fuse business belongs with the green CD marker and the $650 wood volume knob. Anyway, the electricity flows from the transformer and caps, toward the output transistors."

Build it and they will come.

;-)

I'm getting a bad feeling again.