The OP asks:
what is the new HiFi Sound to you?
What part of tube mikes and the good old days means "new HIFI sound" to you?
I think you missed the point...
Describe the "new HiFi sound"?
Recently had a discussion with an audio friend over the word "musical" and what this word means to each of us with regard to sound from different amplifiers and speakers. Some debate too. And, reading this other comment on Agon once in a while...how some equipment has the "new HiFi sound".
ASK:
Can someone describe this, in your words, what is the new HiFi Sound to you? Examples? Or, opposites of the new HiFi sound, what does this sound like?
Showing 33 responses by kota1
Its fact that vinyl has surpassed CD sales and fact that people born after 2000 (or late nineties), and to people who were born and raised with the CD vinyl is new. My teenager was watching an old movie with me and when they played a record in a scene he was shocked, "What’s that, how can that play music"? (he is so used to have a screen or an LED display): https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/riaa-vinyl-units-surpass-cds-1234693223/ |
The "new" sound is something entirely different. It aims not to simulate live concert performance, but to do aurally what molecular gastronomy does gustatorily: to create, via sophisticated technology, sensory experiences NOT to be found outside the laboratory. Ohhhh, I get it, I LOVE the "new" sound then. Atmos music has brought semsory experiences to a level that you can’t achieve with stereo, or even "surround sound". Artists can create stuff with a new "technological" approach. Check out this video of Deadmaus talking about his atmos mixes "its more of a technical process than a creative process": |
I have older recordings that used tube microphones and were completely analog I have newer recordings that used those same microphones, you think this is somehow important? That is like a look back at your baby pictures, LOL. The "new sound" is better, clearer, you just need a proper (as in 7.1.4) atmos rig to play it back. Anyone clinging to this nostalgia BS has clearly got brain lock, and refuse to adopt the coming tech. I say goodbye and good riddance to the antique limitations of (yech) stereo. The engineers that mix will tell you that atmos has opened up a palate and they have finally been given object based audio after choking in channel based for the last century. What part of this modern studio is somehow inferior to the dinosaurs of the past : |
Not my bag Dawg! But you knew that…so why ask? Atmos is backward compatible, an object based mix can be enjoyed on 2, 5, 7, channel system. When you play object based/atmos audio in a 2.1 system it sounds good. So, you can still enjoy atmos with two speakers or headphones. You can also enjoy it with more speakers and height channels. I think people who listen to high end stereo seem to feel they would need to make radical changes to enjoy object based mixes. Nope. When you deploy an immersive setup like I do you can mix and match your setup to the content. I love 2 channel stereo in the morning with my coffee. I love listening to classic albums remixed in atmos. I love upmixing rock and EDM to immersive audio. I can basically flip from mm music to movies by hitting the remote. Concert videos on blueray that were originally 5.1 sound better when upmixed to 9.2.7 in my current system. It simply gives me more choices. As for my system it is setup following the dolby specs and it isn't difficult, you just need to follow them. I have a thread here an atmos setup and BTW, treating your room makes a big difference. |
IDK what you mean by audience sitting at the center and atmos making sense. Before I type a response I just want to ask if you have a system setup for atmos in your home. If we are talking what makes sense we need to be specific. There are good and bad mixes in everything. There are atmos mixes where it sounds like you are standing right at the position of the conductor. There are mixes when you are in the audience and many other types. What specific track or album are you referring to where cymbals play behind you?? Your post is written like you don't have a proper atmos setup or just very little experience. Do you realize that most mixes start at the microphone into multiple tracks before they get compressed into just 2 channels for stereo? The don't start in stereo at all. |
Here is the president of Grammophon records describing how they can take multi-track masters and recreate the acoustics of the concert halls they were recorded in. Then they get to present the work to the artists that are on the recording in dolby atmos. This is a 3 minute video and if the artists themselves are "absolutely blown away" like violinist Daniel Hope is why would the MLP be any different at home? "It’s not about the sound its about the experience. Once you have listened to your own pieces in Dolby Atmos there is no going back" |
As for getting yourself a setup that will absolutely delight it can be far less expensive than stereo. Let’s start with Focal speakers, an all active system includes speakers and all the required amps (plus two subs) for a 7.1.4 system which ranges from $7K to $25K: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search?s=focal+atmos Here are Focal’s atmos setup guidelines: https://www.focal.com/en/pro/dolby-atmos Remember, you are NOT ditching stereo, you are simply adding atmos.
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Like I said before, you need to have a system setup at home before you can properly evaluate anything. I think you are being dismissive out of ignorance. BTW, you can do atmos with tubes like member @brianlucey , it is not an either or decision. I have noticed that the dumbest comments (frankenmusic?) all come from people who don’t have an atmos setup and are clinging to legacy (antique?) two channel setups that they basically spent way too much money on. How else can they voice their bitterness of buyers remorse? As for Martin Logan, great choice for an atmos system using their Motion AI speakers for surrounds and height channels in addition to those two towers: https://www.audioadvice.com/videos-reviews/martinlogan-motion-home-theater-speaker-options |
No wonder so many hardly use systems or are on constant upgrade paths. The gear is designed to fatigue so you can buy new gear and repeat the cycle. +1. that is why you hear the lamest acoustic recordings at audio shows, You can't point two speakers at your head and expect not to be fatigued. That is why i upgraded to immersive audio. |
That article is over a year old and you can already tell that forecast was wrong. I do agree these are certainly "early/ wild west days" but there are new releases every week. The other thing is you have another dimension for stereo recordings called upmixing (atmos/dts-x/auro 3d). I agree there will always be a market for stereo but why be stuck with one format when you can easily have both? Thanks for posting. |
My friends stereo sucks too, should I ban all 2 channel recordings in my home? Not. When I think of the ridiculousness of two channels it just seems obvious that consumers should be able to use whatever format suits the recording best, channel based or object based. Why dump more money into just channel based recordings when you can easily have both channel and object based? It is like buying more horses for your carriage instead of just buying a car.
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Do you remember the title of this thread? Atmos is new, your "rails" are intact. Dude, if you are so enamored with "old" I got no beef with that. Bitter after tossing all that cash into something so lifeless that the only thing they seem to play at audio shows on those $$$$$ systems is female vocals and acoustic instruments, I get it. The poor engineer doing the mix was forced to shoe horn it in to the two channels, hence you have an army of zombies, butt glued in the MLP, head in a vice with two sound cannons pointed at their head, yay for the old, I get it. Here is a link to a plethora of award winning engineers extolling how much they love having a broader palate to mix with in atmos then stereo. Does atmos have a complex setup? Yes, but the dolby standards are clear, it is backward compatible with whatever you have, and you can even use headphones:
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My point is I wouldn't make a visits to my friends anything a reference. As for stereo as you can see mine works great. I have a very nice Sony Signature dac/headphone amp/pre that I can use as a dedicated two channel pre with my active speakers or simply use the DAC with my processor. It sounds excellent and a few mixes sound better in stereo than immersive, I can always pivot. I seem to prefer stereo with my morning coffee: |
It’s annoying and it’s obvious you never owned a truly great 2 channel system. In a thread about "new hifi" you wanna diss me about old hifi? What makes you think that my current setup for two channel is not "truly great"? It measures great, it sounds great, the room is setup great, and this is the best you can do to defend two channel is go to the playground of "mine is better than yours"? OK, here is the "secret sauce" to great two channel. It ain’t the speakers, the electronics, or the cables, it’s the room. When you are "limited" to only two channels it is like crutches. Stereo was designed for three speakers, not two. Not having a center channel is what cripples the room forcing you to sit in a "sweet spot", while the other spots are mediocre or just plain suck. Spending $$$ on gear can’t fix that BUT room treatments can make it a whole lot better. The "secret sauce" is in treating the room and especially treating the ceiling. See the pics in my virtual system to "see" what I mean.
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So I spent some time today on my two channel setup. Got some nice Transparent cables running from my Sony Signature TAZH1ES dac/pre and used it as a dedicated preamp, bypassing my Marantz processor. My Paradigm active speakers have both RCA and XLR inputs so I hooked the pre to the RCA. I use a toggle switch to choose the input I want to use. The Signature line was years in development and represents Sony’s flagship products. Next I recalibrated my Paradigm Link streamer ARC room correction with my PC and that took 20 min. Got it dialed in perfectly for my preferred curve. Then I must have played music of various genre for the next two hours. The Sony has features that let you upscale audio to hirez (DSEE) or remaster files in DSD using the proprietary FPGA DAC. Totally geeked out with the settings. This setup is unbelievably clear, it unleashes whatever your speakers are capable of reproducing. Guess what? It is just like the audio shows, 2 channels shines with acoustic music and female vocals where the music is presented as coming from in front of you. Rock, big band, pop, orchestral music is more dynamic and unnatural in this fashion. In my immersive setup the center channel makes the soundstage better so you can move around and not need a sweetspot. You have 0 localization of speakers, the walls become speakers and that is more of what I experience at a concert hall. So, I still prefer having both options. |
@decooney , I have owned many two channel systems and still use one for my desktop. I prefer solid state to tubes and have used varios amps and speakers. I have also attended various audio shows. There is nothing that compares to the feeling of having your walls themselves become speakers and the room becoming pressurized like it does when you have 14 active speakers, all individually biamped with internal monoblocks although two channel can get you 50% of the way there on well recorded material. It just requires sooo much effort and tweaking I find it a real PIA compared to just following the Dolby standards on immersive audio room set up and hitting play. Did you see my system on my profile? |
I checked with the dealer re: Audio Note today. I own the Sony "Signature" preamp which I would be replacing as my two channel preamp. I asked about the Audio Note "Signature" preamp, the M10, it costs over $100K☹ Do you know why you need to spend $100K+ on a two channel system? That is what it costs to make it sound decent. For the same amount of money you could buy an entire SOA immersive audio system, a projector, a screen, and room treatments. Did you buy one? |
What I like about Sony is they bring together all of their resources, they invented the CD with Philips, they invented DSD, you have the TV’s, the PJ’s, the Playstation, Sony Music, Sony Camera, Sony Walkman, Sony Pictures and then they decided to pivot and focus on hirez audio in the 2000’s. The CEO gave the engineering team an open checkbook and said build me the BEST music playback system we can make. They took years in development to get ready and came back with the Sony Signature line. When you have the resources and budget of Sony you can do stuff basically impossible for boutique manufacturers. Audio Note Signature pre= $100K+. The Sony TAZH1ES Signature pre/dac/headphone amp= $2200. Video: As you know the issue with recordings (especially streaming) is the quality and resolution of the file. I see people squabbling about redbook, PCM, hirez, MQA, etc. I like DSD but good luck finding the content you want. Then you have this unit which takes Sony’s DSD creds and Sony Music’s library of hirez PCM and DSD master tapes and they can create something like this: Convert any Source to DSD https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sony-ta-zh1es.22253/reviews |
Yeah, betamax was another format war, agreed. When Steva Ballmer (Vista, Bing) was helming Microsoft it was awful, biggest software company in the world couldn’t build squat and lived off renewals instead of innovation. Satya Nadella comes in and they pivot to office 365 and azure cloud services, the Surface tablet, etc. Big improvement. In 2005 Sony changed CEO’s to an American guy who was head of Sony America to become Sony’s top dog, Howard Stringer, and s--- hit the fan. The guy got them back to "kaizen", or pursuit of perfection and eventually went all in on high resolution audio with the Signature line. Kazuo Hirai succeeded him as CEO in 2012 they rolled out Signature in 2016 after 5 years in development. Check out the story here: https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/design/stories/signature_series/ |
