Denafrips Pontus *15th* ?

I agree with everything you've said there. It's a sorry state of affairs at Denafrips right now.

@tds3371 Wow! That is odd. Isn't the guy who started Laiv an ex-Denafrips man? Or have I imagined that?

@ozzy62 thanks Ozzy. That takes me back. Haven't done that for a long long time 🤔😊. I have vague memories of a hosting site called something like Photo Bucket, or something like that 😊

@kairosman yeah, I was surprised to say the least. I didn't even notice the "15th" on the front plate of my unit until after I'd configured the I2S pin out 😂.

I paid the normal 12th-1 price allowing for S$ to UK £ conversion, plus I took advantage of the offer of S$149 off for Vinshine loyalty membership. 

As I can't easily post pics on A'gon, here's a link to a thread I posted in a UK forum with a photo of the 15th

@curiousjim thanks 👍

I haven't given it much of a listen to be honest; I was so confused, I wasn't really taking it in as I normally would when receiving a new component 😊. What I did hear from it was impressive, considering I only had it plugged in and listened to it for about half hour.

The Pontus replaced the Ares 12th-1 which I bought on auction on a whim in February. I was so impressed I added the Iris 12th, which was a nice uplift. But I was so impressed with the little Ares, I took the plunge on a Pontus.

I'm very interested to see what Vinshine comes back with, and also to find out what changes have been made for the 15th. I'll update as soon as I hear back again 👍

@marco1 thanks for this, I wouldn't have read that thread normally as the Terminator is outside of my budget.

I've had a response from Annie at Vinshine; Annie wrote "the Support Team will reply to your email".

So, eagerly awaiting for the reply 🤔😊

@audphile1 🤣🤣🤣 funnily enough, that did cross my mind for a fleeting moment in my initial confusion 🤪

@moonwatcher What I did notice in the brief time I listened, was that bass notes, say on electric bass guitar were definitely more defined. I wouldn't say more bass slam, but more discernable. This was one of the things I did pick up on, plus better micro detail generally. Individual track components better isolated from each other.

Once I've put some decent hours on the unit (it'll be running Radio Paradise 24/7 for the next week or more), I'll update.

Hope this helps 👍

I couldn't make out much other than silver internal wiring, and new FPGA firmware (for the Pontus 15th) but there is probably more.

Looking forward to one of Alvin's YT vids on this; he's got a lot of catch-up after his trip away 🤔🫣

I've received a response from Alvin re: the 15th versions;

Good day!
My apologies for the late reply. I am currently on a business trip with limited internet access.

Pontus 15th is the latest variant. You're one of the lucky customers who received it :) More details will be shared by the DENAFRIPS team soon!

@audiostick on the top banner on the Denafrips webpage, at least when I looked yesterday, it features only the Pontus and Terminator as having 15th versions at the moment. I'm sure the Venus will get the same treatment eventually 

Just a quick update on the Pontus 15th

After 24hrs, not much change from initial power-up; some nice things going on - as mentioned, bass was tightening up with greater definition

After 48hrs - Meh! Just sounded all over the place, a bit of a hot mess

After 72hrs things settled back down again, bass a little tighter, micro parts like light cymbal taps and hits coming more to the fore and stand-out

After 96hrs - more if the same with a greater sense of the ambience of recordings. Spaces between notes are palpable if that makes sense.

Bass seems to be the stand out at the moment though; I have bass traps in either corner of my room behind and to the side of my speakers, but was still having some residual bloom. This seems to have almost disappeared in contrast to how it was with the Ares 12th-1. I’m a little tentative on this aspect as I know it’s relatively early days and probably have a ways to go yet, but it’s certainly positive and promising right now

@audiostick hi, I already had the Iris 12th, which I was feeding the Ares 12th-1. I've read multiple times that a Pontus and Iris pairing takes you almost to the Venus, so I went with the Pontus. I also had earmarked money for other HiFi stuff, such as new speaker cables

From the Denafrips site, it states they have used silver wiring internally, and upgraded firmware for the FPGA chip. I think someone else posted some spec changes

There may be more than this of course

The practice of launching new versions so often is a little annoying, especially if you’re someone who bought a 12th. Correct me if I’m wrong, I think the 12th versions were launched in 2022 followed by the 12th-1’s in early 2023, and now the 15th versions May/June 2024.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, I’ve never heard a Pontus of any iteration prior to ordering a new Pontus 12th-1, and of course I was sent the 15th instead, so I have no way of comparing and contrasting the 12th-1 with the 15th. But, I suspect as @marco1 suggests, I doubt the difference would be significant, probably a refinement rather than a major update.

I’ve never bought a new Denafrips DAC prior to this; the 2 Ares units I’ve had (Ares II and Ares 12th-1) were both bought pre-loved, 2 or 3 years apart, and sold on at close to what I paid for them, so personally i don’t feel burnt as someone who bought a 12th, and then the 12th-1 was launched not long after.

Admittedly, I’m not someone who feels I have to have the new model of something whatever it may be, if I already own a previous model, but I know and appreciate some people do feel compelled to.

Unfortunately for us in the US and Europe who enjoy these products, this practice seems to be the norm with manufacturers in China/Asia, SMSL for example seem to have new DAC every 5 minutes (I vaguely remember a YT video by Jay’s Iyagi (spelling?) about this very issue. The focus of the video was that he felt the situation had gotten so ridiculous, that he wasn’t going to buy or review anymore of these DACs from the likes of SMSL, Topping etc)

At the end of the day, we’re not compelled or forced to buy any of these products. If for example a new Denafrips DAC was launched in the near future, say an 15th-1, or an 18th say, would I buy it? Big nope. From what I’ve heard of my Pontus 15th, I wouldn’t feel the need to, it is a lovely sounding DAC, and we know these new iterations are not major updates/upgrades but refinements which may be should be "silent" rather rather than launching new versions

Just my thoughts 👍

@fynnegan you could well be right; I wouldn't rule anything out at this stage, with no official word or info on the full change log from Denafrips/Vinshine

@pc527 

I don't understand what's happening with Denafrips. I emailed Vinshine over the weekend; Alvin replied yesterday and basically said Vinshine are waiting for a public announcement by Denafrips, and that the 15th were released in an "unplanned manner"

I agree with you, the lack of transparency is very frustrating. What's happening is confusing; I've had the 15th for 2 weeks now, so the fact that customers are receiving 12th-1 models on later orders, with still no official word on the launch of 15th is disgruntling 

Just to add; I've just checked Vinshine's site and all the DDC's are showing as out of stock too 🤔

@fthompson251 this did cross my mind too to be honest, as you can "Shop" and check out via the Denafrips site still

Re: the guy who started Laiv; just read he was Alvin's lieutenant at Vinshine, not a Denafrips employee as per my earlier post.

@classic8 I agree wholeheartedly, but we maybe jumping the gun. The signs are ominous, but it's just speculation at this point. 

Below is the email reply from Alvin which I received yesterday. I highlighted how the current lack of transparency over the 15th situation was not doing either Denafrips or Vinshine any favours, or words to that affect:

Good day.
Indeed, I understand that the current situation is not ideal for Vinshine Audio. DENAFRIPS released the 15th in an unplanned manner. We could only wait for the public announcement from DENAFRIPS.

I've still no idea what is going on with Denafrips/Vinshine; I'm not sure if there actually is a parting of ways, as down in the shipping notes on the Denafrips site, the notes reference Vinshine several times re: EU and UK VAT/Duty, so nope, no idea what's going on.

Regardless, the Pontus II 15th is a lovely, lovely sounding piece of kit. I won't go into hyperbole, except to say it gives everything the Ares 12th-1 did, but much more if it.

The DAC the Ares and now Pontus has kept off my rack since Jan/Feb is the Cen Grand DSDAC 1.0 Super Clock, which converts all PCM to DSD, up to DSD 1024 and a fine DAC, which was almost twice the price of the Pontus; but the Pontus is just streets ahead in terms of emotional engagement compared to the Cen Grand.

I've never owned a previous Pontus version, so can't compare, but the 15th is staying put; no complaints at all 👍

I received an email from Denafrips Europe today, advertising the 15th versions; this is a copy & paste from the email:

"The Enyo 15th matches the sound quality of the Ares 12.1, the Pontus 15th matches the Venus 12.1, and the Terminator 15th matches the T12.1+. The new Ares 15, with major circuit adjustments and two low-phase-noise oscillators, now matches the sound quality of the Pontus 12.1, despite its unchanged size."

Make of that what you will. There's nothing I can see relating to the above statement on the main Denafrips site; it's as it has been for the last couple of weeks or so. Vinshine remains the same; DACs/DDCs out of stock

Well spotted; that's really interesting, and hence why Denafrips are saying for example the Pontus 15th is on the same level as the Venus, or words to this affect.

But I agree, they really need to clarify what is going on

What we all thought has been officially announced by Alvin, please see below;

https://youtu.be/ksjgWvRLor0?si=zGpdQFU3lbkUjCQU

Hi guys,

It’s been almost 5 months since receiving my Pontus 15th and started this thread. Initially I was caught up in the confusion re: Denefrips/Vinshine confusion at the time, but nearly 5 months living with the Pontus, coupled with the Iris DDC, just wanted to express how happy the Pontus makes me.

For reference, when I first received it, it was feeding my Marantz Model 30, but not long after I bit the bullet and tried tubes for the first time with the Heaven 11 Billie mkii.

The Marantz combo was lovely, the Pontus was a big step up from the Ares 12th-1 I had, but the addition of the Billie was revaltory for me, being a tube virgin.

The partnership of Pontus and Billie is just marvelous to me, to the point I found I wasn’t visiting audio forums, or looking at components as potential swaps or upgrades, I was just listening 

I won’t go into hyperbole, I’m rubbish at describing how my system sounds, but as things stand I’m one happy camper.

Despite all the confusion and uncertainty around Denafrips and Vinshine that existed when this thread started, I hope everyone who bought a Pontus 15th are not disappointed; to me, it’s the best piece of kit I think I’ve owned.

Thanks guys, and happy listening 🍻

I’ve never heard a Venus or the previous Pontus versions so can’t compare with my Pontus 15th, but from what I’ve seen on YT this does seem to be the case.

Jay’s Iyagi review of the 15th popped on YT yesterday; he was of the same opinion. His advice or suggestion was to pair the 15th with a neutral or slightly warm system rather than a system already leaning on the bright side to avoid having too much of a good thing.

This would align with the reviews of the Venus 12th; after all, the Pontus 15th is for all intents and purposes, a Venus 12th transferred in to a new case with a few other upgrades as far as I can tell from what others have posted on this thread and elsewhere.

For me personally, the Pontus gels with my preferences, especially since I moved to the Billie Mkii amp into my ATC SCM40’s