Final major cable (my IC) is close to full break in. System sounds terrific.
I have a new Roon only (Core) server with ethernet direct to my Roon player coming in shortly. This will allow me to bypass the network switch and season with LAN cables. I have upgraded DC cables for my LPS to the router, switch, etc. coming at the end of July.
I'll post an (evolving) review of my system, with the Denafrips Terminator as a core / fundamental component in it, in a couple of weeks, with appropriate updates on the impact of the front-front end of the system as they arrive and settle in.
For those of you considering the Denafrips Terminator, my findings through my ongoing system upgrades are supportive of how truly capable this DAC is. |
System performance update. I've had the new streamer (Roon Core) in system for a day now. It has eliminated my Network Switch, and I am using one Supra CAT8 LAN cable (instead of two). This streamer has a LAN Bridge which allows me to go LAN In and then LAN Out to my player (Roon Endpoint).
System (SYSTEM - for emphasis) impact on sound performance was immediately apparent and positive (across the metrics / areas we typically discuss) in ways I appreciate and value. I've highlighted some below.
A shift in Bass performance (previously quite good): tighter with impressive palpable tautness AND / WHILE also being fuller / rounder (remarkable since usually we get lean and tight OR full and round but not both).
Greater emotional tension and energy in how music is conveyed. The extra Body, Weight and Fullness extend through the upper midrange. The system is now even more resolved and transparent --- bursting with additional musical information and energy deep into the 'window.' Resonance, decay, air, etc. have increased. Greater Aliveness. Greater dynamic impact. Palpable and Natural.
I find computer peripherals break in fairly quickly (all cabling and the power supply were already fully burned in) and though I expect some improvement I'm comfortable posting about the upside of this piece in my system, now. If there are any major or unusual changes, I will report back.
How does the Denafrips Terminator fit into this? It's where all that digital effort upstream gets converted. Without it, those gains and improvements don't get expressed downstream. Needless to say I'm very impressed with it's performance.
I believe it's "the system" and the synergies within, rather than the 'single' component or 'item.' I realize it's easier to discuss differences within the context of 'A Change' we make...however, I'm trying to move away from that.
The streamer is the Small Green Computer i7 Kaby Lake Roon DSP unit. The player is the Sonore Signature Rendu SE. I am using SoTM LAN cables and filter for the final leg between the streamer and player.
Amplifier is the T+A PA 3100 HV integrated amp. Speakers are Tekton Design Double Impact SEs. 100 percent Tidal/Roon. |
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@reggy Do you know that the Terminator doesn't (repeat doesn't) come with a power cord?
Makes one wonder? : ) : ) : ) |
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I have replaced the following configuration ahead of my Small Green Computer i7 Kaby Lake Roon DSP unit, with ethernet bridge (Server)...
FROM: Router > Supra CAT8 LAN cable > Server
TO:
Router > Supra CAT8 LAN cable > SoTM iso-CAT6 LAN filter > SoTM ’Black’ LAN cable > Server
With the Denafrips Terminator in the system, there are notable improvements across the board. These include richer tonality, greater weight and body, heightened resonance and decay and richer harmonic energy with increases in detail, image solidity, musical insight, venue information/ambient cues, etc. Stage has moved forward and is fuller and larger. 3D spatial positioning remains excellent.
In summary, I’d say it’s less about the ’mores’ across the board (which is true) BUT RATHER about the overall presentation being musically and emotionally ’ENHANCED,’ and therefore more pleasurable and enjoyable.
The filter shouldn’t take long to settle in. The Black cable will likely need some break in time.
I have tried two Supra CAT8s in the chain (supra > filter > supra). The access to my router’s LAN output is restricted, which means I will not be able to test the SoTM Black cable from the router out.
I will also be testing other LAN cable combinations in the future.
For reference, I also use SoTM LAN products from the Server to the Player/Renderer. Specifically: dCBL-CAT7 > iso-CAT6 filter > Black
I’ll report back in a week.
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Approaching ten days from insertion of the LAN filter and LAN cable. Both have settled and the highlights mentioned in the above post hold. More correctness of body, weight, ’organic-ness’ as well as added emotional connectivity and musical insight, nuance, subtlety, etc.. System sound has tightened up, is more resolved and is more natural (less ’ripe’) than when the cable and filter first went in.
I believe the break-in has run it’s course, If I pick up on any changes, I will add to the above. I should also have a special design DC cable for the LPS to server connection in-system within a week or so. I will be testing it against the LPS’ stock DC cable.
Bottom line, the Small Green Computer server, DC cabling changes, and the addition of the LAN filter + cable have resulted in another leap forward, with respect to system performance.
Given the thread topic, these upstream changes are converted into an analog signal by the Terminator, which continues to be up to the challenge and continues to impress and amaze. |
@char2 Not sure if this is even an option but I'd reach out to Alvin of Vinshine Audio to see if there are any demos available.
There used to be a list of models and locations around the world...perhaps Alvin can check if there is one close to you with an owner willing to have you over for a listen.
If you do purchase, they are relatively easy to resell. |
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@geekee Is it in the house? |
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Thanks for clarifying, @geekee
You may want to ask in the Singxer / Raspberry Pi threads on Computer Audiophile.
Great to hear Pi direct is working fine! |
@anwar Can you share what the specific chains for each of your ’systems,’ inclusive of cabling, are? Thanks.
Congrats on your Marantz SA-10!!! |
@reggy John Darko compares the Terminator and the Yggdrasil (Analog 2). |
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@saleh84 Thanks for your wonderful write-up and sharing your impressions of the Terminator, etc. Very cool!
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@yyzsantabarbara Reach out to Alvin, who will be able to share the various I2S components paired with the Terminator. He'll also be able to provide the pin settings (should adjustments be required).
My personal preference would be to go USB into the Terminator OVER inserting an I2S convertor into the chain. For me, this defeats the purpose. I'd choose I2S direct only.
The other reason is around cabling. (Offhand, I don't recall where you fall with respect to cables) but there are far more options, and Quality USB options, than with I2S. |
For those that may not know, there is a robust Facebook group for the Terminator. It's a great site to ask questions, especially if you frame them in Italian. : ) |
@yyzsantabarbara A Sonore I2S streamer would be really cool.
Currently, with USB into the Terminator via the Sonore Signature Rendu SE ... my system performance (for me) is exquisite. There are a number of factors that have contributed to this. The SR PowerCell 12 SE has done wonders across the system and the recent addition of the ethernet bridged Small Green Computer Server has also elevated performance.
Mentioning this because, even without going to I2S, the Terminator continues to scale upwards. |
Yes. One can only (fully) power down by removing the power cord.
I put it in 'Standby' every night and it remains so for about 8 hours. It comes back to 'performance' fairly quickly. I usually start listening about a half hour after the Terminator and my T+A amp are back on. |
@canibefrank You are looking at two very different units with respect to price, functionality, utilization, sound signature/performance, etc.
If price is a driver, then consider one of the other Denafrips DACs.
It really depends on what you are looking for and how each DAC fits those goals. All the best.
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@73max Definitely connect with Alvin.
If you purchased in November (and it was a pre Nov. unit), there is a newer board available. Check a few posts up. Post by Alvin on 5/2. He should be able to let you know if you have the latest one or not.
You can also look at the board pics on the Denafrips site to determine for yourself. It's a simple removal of the top plate...two screws have to be removed...directions are on the site.
Also, try switching to another USB cable, as a simple test to eliminate the cable as being the issue (though it's unlikely to be, in my opinion).
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@73max Which board are you using in the Terminator (there are three versions now)?
Can you test via another digital cable feed?
Can you test with another server/streamer (other than your Nucleus+) feeding the Terminator?
Have you and Alvin troubleshooted the static/hiss issue?
I had a 'similar' (intermittent) static/hiss issue which was resolved fully. |
Going off memory here, so I'm not a hundred percent certain....
The original (first board) when the Terminator was initially released.
The second board approximately one year (~ a year +) ago. |
@luisma31 Good discussion. My position (coming from a guy who only used the Terminator 'native' / NOS PCM) is that having options is better than not having them AND that this hobby is 'the better for it' when we get to explore and choose what works best for us.
In that spirit, I look forward to @73max 's findings and his ultimate preferences. |
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Holiday News: "The HESTIA and HYPERION are DENAFRIPS advanced Pre & Power amplifier. The perfect companion of the well-regarded DENAFRIPS DAC family. The HESTIA and HYPERION are fully developed in-house, the entire R&D process took a good 1 year duration to complete. It has been long awaited. How does it sound? You asked? It shares the same DENAFRIPS house-sound: Musical, Emotional, Dynamic, and High Resolution." - via Vinshine Audio https://www.denafrips.com/hestia-hyperion
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I've been using the Denafrips Terminator in a new 'system' chain for the past month.
I have to admit I'm now in the 'amazed' camp in terms of how impressed I am with it's continued upward (performance) mobility and how well it continues to scale.
New speakers. New amp. New preamp. New analog cables.
New server/player, perhaps.
New DAC...Nope. It's that good. |
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Let go the 'winning'... Embrace the enjoying... |
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@bstatmeister I only have the Terminator and the Yggdrasil. You'll have to report back! : ) |
Just installed the New DSP board for the Terminator DAC. It took under 5 minutes to do so. Less than ten minutes from powering off to powering back on with the new DSB board. The USB connection and handshake with Roon took immediately. This is as simple as an install gets. I’m now playing music with the new board in, all in under ten minutes!!! I’ll report back as I get some hours on the new board. First listen is very promising...and is different than the old board. Here is the link from Denafrips / Alvin of Vinshine Audio to walk you through the board install. https://www.denafrips.com/single-post/2019/06/18/How-To-Upgrade-DSP-Board?utm_campaign=7629eada-25c7-4c4f-a389-d6fa4664e3ec&utm_source=so |
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Early impressions, now that I have over 30 hours of playtime on the DAC and over 40 hours of energized time on it:
First, I concur with what others have shared based on their own early impressions (mainly on Head Fi): The presentation is Clearer / Cleaner and with greater Clarity than the fully-run-in previous board.
Second, there has been variance in the sound as well as progression (in a good way) as the unit breaks in. Therefore, I’ll hold off on my other findings until I have over 100 hours of playtime on the DAC / new USB/DSP board.
Third, the sound signature of the new board departs enough from the previous board, for me to label it as ’significant,’ at least in terms of making a decision on one vs. the other.
Fourth, the write-up that was linked earlier in this thread [at the 10 hour point] is too early for an evaluation, in my opinion. Hopefully the author will follow-up with another quick review once he has many more hours on the board. The changes and progression I’m hearing is why my feedback above is very limited, at this point in time.
[PLEASE NOTE: I am only using the USB input and I am only using NOS mode, at this time] |
One other customer has reported the same to Alvin. I also use a Samsung (a 2018 flagship model) and it is set to PCM, as it was with the former board. I immediately checked audio output settings once I heard the problem. I also checked different sources via Optical, same issue. At this point, it appears to be isolated to some boards. I will re-test prior to swapping out the board. My concern is driver damage at the speakers. Putting the old board back in will inform as well.
Denafrips is looking into it. |
