Dedicated Circuits - Subpanel importance?


My system is no more. Sold everything. Starting from scratch. Thanks to you and seven months of experience I am doing the following, which is taking care of the number one component, the room:

  1. Treating. The full GIK order in October is starting to arrive.
  2. Running one or more dedicated circuits.

I am addressing #2 in this post. There are extensive discussions here and one can spend hours if not days trying to wring-out the critical details needed for a DIY solution. I have spent hours and there a few things I need to confirm before I proceed because I was unable to find definitive answers.

I am doing this myself. I do not want or need lectures on only having a licensed electrician do this work. I have been doing my own electrical work for many years and am very comfortable doing so.

  1. Does a subpanel help? Is it required? Subpanels are typically supplied from a breaker off of the main panel's bus, so I'm guessing there is no advantage in terms of SQ? Perhaps if I can independently ground the subpanel it might make a difference?
  2. Opening up my walls is not an option, so I need to use conduit. This may restrict the number of lines if the wire should not share the same conduit? If I am restricted to Romex 8 or 10,2 versus metal-clad, is it okay for two runs to occupy the same conduit?
  3. How much better is metal-clad? Is it required vs Romex? Will metal conduit accomplish the same result with Romex?

Answers to these questions will complete my plans and I will go forward at speed. Hopefully this discussion helps others as well even if it's to know what to have their electrician setup for them.

Thank you!

 

 

 

 

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Showing 4 responses by jea48

@lowrider57 said:

I’ve learned about grounding code from forums such as this. But I’ve been wondering why can’t a subpanel have it’s own grounding rod as long as the main panel has a grounding rod? This is unclear to me because the subpanel ground is tied to the main panel grounding block.

Is a grounding rod ever used on a subpanel?

You can add a ground rod to a subpanel connected to the ground bar in the panel, BUT, an equipment equipment grounding conductor still must be ran with the feeder conductors and the equipment grounding conductor shall be terminated to the equipment ground bar in the main electrical panel as well connected to the ground bar in the subpanel.

The purpose of an equipment grounding conductor is to provide a low impedance path for ground fault current to return to the source, the utility power transformer, through the service neutral conductor at the electrical service main electrical panel where all equipment grounding conductors are connected to.

If the feeder equipment grounding conductor was lifted at one end the only path for ground fault current would be the earth driven ground rod for the subpanel... The earth is a poor conductor... The ground faulted circuit, be it a branch circuit fed from the subpanel, or a faulted feeder conductor, there would never be enough current to overload the breaker and cause it to trip open.

The main purpose for a ground connection to earth is for lightning protection. I does absolutely nothing for improving the sound of an audio system. The earth does not possess some magical mystical power that sucks nasties form an audio system

So forget adding an Auxiliary grounding Electrode to a subpanel that is located in the same building structure... Lightning loves them though...

FWIW, in a separate detached building, structure where a subpanel is installed fed from a main panel ,say in a house, then by code an new grounding electrode system shall be established. An equipment grounding conductor ran with the feeder is still required, connected at both ends to the equipment ground bar.

NEC 250.54 Auxiliary Grounding Electrodes.
It is permissible provided the sub panel feeder from the main electrical panel equipment grounding conductor is connected to the equipment ground bar in the main electrical panel as well to the equipment ground bar in the sub panel. The Aux ground rod ground wire is connected to the ground bar in the sub panel.

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Grounding Myths

"Electromagnetic Compatibility Engineering" by Henry Ott

3.1.7 Grounding Myths

More myths exist relating to the field of grounding than any other area of electrical engineering. The more common of these are as follows:

1. The earth is a low-impedance path for ground current. False, the impedance of the earth is orders of magnitude greater than the impedance of a copper conductor.

2. The earth is an equipotential. False, this is clearly not true by the result of (1 above).

3. The impedance of a conductor is determined by its resistance. False, what happened to the concept of inductive reactance?

4. To operate with low noise, a circuit or system must be connected to an earth ground. False, because airplanes, satellites, cars and battery powered laptop computers all operate fine without a ground connection. As a mater of fact, an earth ground is more likely to be the cause of noise problem. More electronic system noise problems are resolved by removing (or isolating) a circuit from earth ground than by connecting it to earth ground.

5. To reduce noise, an electronic system should be connected to a separate “quiet ground” by using a separate, isolated ground rod. False, in addition to being untrue, this approach is dangerous and violates the requirements of the NEC (electrical code/rules).

6. An earth ground is unidirectional, with current only flowing into the ground. False, because current must flow in loops, any current that flows into the ground must also flow out of the ground somewhere else.

7. An isolated AC power receptacle is not grounded. False, the term “isolated” refers only to the method by which a receptacle is grounded, not if it is grounded.

8. A system designer can name ground conductors by the type of the current that they should carry (i.e., signal, power, lightning, digital, analog, quiet, noisy, etc.), and the electrons will comply and only flow in the appropriately designated conductors. Obviously false."

Henry W. Ott

 

Who is Henry Ott?
http://www.hottconsultants.com/bio.html

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@lowrider57 Said:

Understood. We discussed this when you advised me about replacing my meter box and outside line due to corrosion. If you remember, distortion and DC was entering my service panel.

I remember the thread. Harmonic distortion caused by a corroded connection in the meter socket was causing a problem with a piece of audio equipment. Wasn’t it a noisy buzzing, vibrating, power transformer?

 

I think where I’m confused is from comments in threads about using an "independent" ground rod (or 2) from a subpanel or main panel. My take is that these ground rods are not bonded to the main panel. This doesn’t sound kosher. Is there any reason to use multiple ground rods spread out in the backyard? Yes, I know earth doesn’t possess any magical powers.

Independent, dedicated, isolated, ground rods are dangerous. They violate all electrical safety codes.

NEC 250.54 Auxiliary Grounding Electrodes is one of the dumbest code editions ever. All the additional grounding electrodes do is to provide lightning a direct path into a building’s electrical wiring damaging electronic equipment as it goes on its merry way to the electrical service’s main grounding electrode system back to earth. Lightning loves Auxiliary Grounding Electrodes..

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Guys,

When the full 240V secondary winding is used to feed a 240V load the winding works like any other single phase transformer winding.

Things change when 120V loads are connected to L1, leg, and the neutral, and L2, leg, and the neutral. This is where the polarity of each side of the secondary split phase winding gets interesting.

If  L1 to neutral and L2 to neutral loads are exactly the same amperage, zero amps will return on the neutral conductor to the transformer neutral center tap. Example 10 amp load connected to L1 and neutral and 10 amp load on L2 and neutral. Zero amps will return on the neutral conductor to the center tap neutral on the transformer. The two 120V loads will be in series with one another and fed by 240V. If a10A load is connected to L1 and neutral and 5A  load connected to L2 and neutral, the unbalanced load of 5 amps will return on the neutral conductor.

On a single phase dual winding secondary it is important to observe the polarity of the windings when connecting them together.

How it works.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/alternating-current/chpt-10/single-phase-power-systems/

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My son just completed the first phase of his residential electrical education

@vinylvalet

He should use that as a starting point and then try to move to the commercial and industrial electrical wiring industry. That's where the money's at.

I would recommend he start here:

Phoenix Electrical JATC