I've had to strip down and completely re-build my recently-acquired Maplenoll, but soon, hahahahahaha....Damn, I hope it works.
P.S. I just ordered a Decca International Tonearm for peanuts, NOS. |
Tbg,
If you do buy a Decca Jubilee for your Schroeder, I hope you will post a review, as this has got to be one of the most interesting match-ups I've ever heard of. In my Maplenoll, the Decca simply will not track without damping, and I'm still working on the damping. It worked for me once, I can make it work again...back to the basement to try. |
My God! A response! Thank you! Actually, concerning the Decca International tonearms, I used to live in Europe and tried in all kinds of ways to get one of them. The company which is sitting on them - if they still have them - is Tjoeb Ah! They never answered any of my requests for information. Maybe they still have them. Though the arm is largely plastic, like the cartridge it is quite brilliant: it is a unipivot stabilized by magnets, with a bubble level in the headshell. If you can get one, then let me know.
As to the horizontal leveling question, I have to report a strange thing. Some time ago in my desperation, I acquired a Mayware tonearm to try with my cartridge. My Decca's diamond is actually glued crookedly onto the cantilever, and so does not hang straight down. The Mayware does not have any stabilisers of any sort, the counterweight does not hang below the pivot point, and so it is perfectly centred. Well damn me if the tonearm doesn't actually tilt precisely in response to the diamond's orientation, tilting just so so that the diamond points straight down! And it sounds perfectly centred and so on and stays stable without wobbling, giving the perfect imaging only a Decca can give (mine is a Super Gold with VdH stylus). Here is an unexpected "pro" in response to all the "cons" the Mayware is accused of. Of course, if the Mayware had the outriggers and the low-slung counterweight everyone makes such a fuss over, then my Decca wouldn't work. Hmmm...
Another 'table which works well with the Decca is an early Maplenoll air-bearing 'table with fluid damping trough. The headshell is held with a hex-nut, and so can be tilted to the required degree with the use of a small mirror to observe the diamond. After a helluva lot of wheeling and dealing, I have recently re-acquired this particular Maplenoll, which, by the way, is considered a Class A or B 'table by the incomparable Salvatore, though I have no idea if he is trustworthy (but he seems to be on the ball). The linear-tracking Maplenoll tonearm plus Decca gives the best imaging it is possible to have, with the added bonus of all the usual Decca attributes. But the Decca is noisy and will hum in some circumstances (I am still fiddling with the Maplenoll, and will report on this if there is interest), and so I keep a variety of MMs and MCs and 'tables around, "for I sip analogue rigs like wine," as there is no perfection in this world. |
I too have a Connoisseur for the Collection (mine is a limited-edition chrome jobby ), but man do those things rock: they make all cartridges sound like Deccas! Beware, plugging this in might make your high-end rig sound wimpy. I'm telling you, something is missing from much of the new designs - cartridges, tonearms, turntables - which the old guard understood: music. And I'm not that old! The Connoisseur arm is very massive (practically solid stainless steel) which probably overrode all the Decca's objections. Now that you mention it, perhaps I should try this combo too! I can report, though, that so far the Decca works best in unipivots. I just ordered two NOS Decca International Tonearms for 75 euros: magnetic suspension unipivot with a jeweled bearing and fluid damping...tasty... |
Sorry to hear about your father's jazz collection: I'm crying already. The Decca is like whitewater rafting: exhilarating you while at the same time you are asking yourself why the hell you are doing it. Do not try this in your home. They are a bitch, need fluid damping, prefer unipivots (but will work with others if there is fluid damping) can buzz or hum (though I hear the newer ones are better). But its zero-compliance means the most direct, in-yer-face experience there is in vinyl-land, making everything else moot. But I always keep an easier cartridge to live with around, pulling out the Decca when I want to live dangerously, just like sometimes only a whiskey will do, and to hell with beer. Maywares work fine with Deccas, have a bad reputation and so can be had cheap, when you can find'em. There is also the Tjoeb hoard of Decca International tonearms: they were selling them for $25, if I remember. As to my record player collection: I have stripped down my stereo system several times (so I could go travel, drink and sleep in), but never had the heart to sell any of my vinyl spinners, or my vinyl. |
Interesting you should bring up the issue of hum, which I conquered just last night! The Decca tracked quite well in a Mayware I had mounted on an AR-XA, and given it is a Decca, even in this modest 'table it matched or beat my two "high-end" spinners with other cartridges, one being a Maplenoll, the other being an Audiomeca. But on the AR it hummed, a problem which, once the music started, disappeared into the background. On the Maplenoll, however, not a bit of hum, and though there is a ground wire to the arm, I have not connected it to ground, an unexpected result.
My Decca has four pins (the ground wires connected together via a looped wire), does yours? The Maplenoll has a lead platter, and so perhaps this is shielding the motor. As with some head-amps and phono stages, you just have to move things around, connect and disconnect ground wires, try your tonearm wire in different positions and so on (this is the "bitch" and "hate" part of the Decca experience). Without knowing what your 'table is I can come up with nothing else. But there is a turntable mat made out of graphite, the Boston Mat1, which might double as shielding of some sort. It also sounds - from a design point - superb. The Maplenoll also features a damping trough at the headshell, with the result that the Decca tracks perfectly (so far) in this set-up, sounding like a "normal" cartridge (now I have to play with viscosity and so on).
If you want your Decca to track superbly, then get yourself a Decca tonearm! While this is dissed as cheap, it is quite a brilliant piece of engineering (pre-empting the Platine Verdier and Schroeder tonearms), and Ken Kessler, for instance, keeps his Decca set up in one, which he considers still superior in the usual Decca ways to his Koetsu Urishi in SME 10 turntable! Don't give up! And thanks for contributing. |
Damn those Deccas! In my Mayware one of the tonearm wires is contacting the walls of the tonearm inside, giving the occasional loud buzz as the tonearm travels across the record, and so I must re-wire. If you have another tonearm, connect the Decca to it and see if the buzz persists (just tape the two negative cartridge clips together for contact for purposes of this experiment). I also get buzzing from the transformers from my tube amps, which, however, disappeared when I mounted the Decca on the Maplenoll. Once, I used toothpaste to clean the contacts on the plastic bracket as well as the pins. This is not as stupid as it sounds, as nothing removes oxidation from metal as quickly and thoroughly as toothpaste, and it smells good! This you should try first, as it is the easiest to accomplish and perhaps there is no contact. Also pry the little copper tabs in the bracket out a bit for better contact. If all else fails, then buy a Decca International tonearm, which is being sold for 40 Euros including shipping! Man I hate those Deccas. Man I love those Deccas. If we can get interest up on these then we can create an organization for the betterment of Deccas! |
Frogman,
Now I remember a similar experience with a three-pin Decca which belonged to a friend. At first it sounded fine, in fact quieter than mine. But it suddenly developed this loud buzzing which I couldn't get rid of. Since it didn't belong to me, I simply disconnected it and went back to my own Decca. I never did find out what was wrong with it, but I have heard that the armature of older Deccas can rust: they do eventually die. I hope this isn't the case with yours, but if after all of the previous experiments it still buzzes, then slide the cover back and see what you can see. If it's toast, then I'd try something desperate like opening it and pouring an anti-rust agent in it, or something like that. Ken Kessler of HiFi News is probably the world's leading expert on Deccas, maybe you could e-mail him. Or ask London/Decca themselves, I think a refurbishment is much cheaper than buying new. Is it worth all the trouble? I think so, but mine is now working perfectly, and my previous one, which I foolishly sold, also worked very well. The problem with Deccas is that once you hear one working well, you never forget. Good Luck! Let me know how it goes. |
The Decca works well (I think best of all) in unipivot tonearms, so it should work a treat in your VPI arm: please let us know how this works out on this thread, as personally I would love to know. And make it a detailed review! Do VPI make any sort of damping available for their tonearm, as this too helps? As to wiring, you'll just have to experiment, as it behaves differently in different set-ups. I own a four-pin Decca, and I have used three-pin Deccas by simply transfering them to my four-pin bracket. Food for thought: buy any four-pin Decca you can get cheaply even if broken, just to get that four-pin mounting bracket. Have fun and good luck! |
They're hidden in closets, basements and drawers all over the world, but people aren't even aware of them, more's the pity. If I find a stash, I'll post it on this website. But the new Decca Super Golds have an improved stylus profile, four pins, and can come factory-installed with Decapods, which is why I was hoping someone had experience of these, before I dive in. And then there's the Jubilee and cheaper versions as well. Some prefer the conical stylus of the Maroon, which I haven't tried, only having tried the Gold and the Super Gold, which sounded pretty much the same in my rig, VdH stylus notwithstanding. A new Maroon might be a possibility after all. |
Topoxforddoc,
You don't ever get the temptation to set it up again for that famous Decca slam? And I take it the Garrott Bros. rebuild didn't improve the tracking? Thanks for the info: the Hadcocks are back in production, so another possibility. |
I can see your point, with a Decca in that set-up you'd likely get blown out the back wall...You'd have to wear protective gear! I applaud your choice of high-sensitivity speakers, you're obviously after the excitement of music, which explains why you had a Decca in the first place. Fascinating record deck combination, too bad you're so far away, I'd love to hear that. If you look further up this thread, you will see that someone with a Schroeder is thinking of buying a Jubilee, which is apparently a popular combination in Europe. But I think he isn't using Avantgardes, and so it is not such a dangerous proposition for him. |
Rwd,
Of course it's better if you go for a new Decca: then you can report to this post and let us know all about it! But seriously, Decca claims that the new stypus profile - available only on the Super Gold and Jubilee - makes it much more tonearm-friendly and improves tracking. Also, all new Deccas (they are new) come with the non-bitch four-pin bracket, and can be ordered with factory-installed Decapod mounts (a more rigid metal bracket). Though I have a Decca that works very well in two turntables, I still keep a baker's dozen of other cartridges around for when I want to relax more, a Grado Platinum being my mainstay for now (in a low-mass tonearm, the Grado comes close to the Decca in overall dynamics, but not in slam), until I get a new stylus for my V15 (play and forget). The VPI does have removeable arm-wands, doesn't it? This would be a great - though fairly expensive - set-up, a Decca for that roller-coaster feeling, and another cartridge for a less intense experience. If you can source a used four-pin, then maybe it's wiser to go this route to see how it meshes with your system. I don't want to be held responsible for whatever happens - unless it's good: then praise away! Whichever route you take, let us know how a Decca works out on the VPI. In the meantime, I'm waiting for the Decca International tonearms I've ordered, assuming they come, which I'll mount on my Audiomeca, which I'll report on. Currently, I'm fiddling with the fluid on my Maplenoll. |
Thanks very much for your report on the new cartridges, Sjy425, it gives me great anticipation of the future possibilities with a better Decca! And I guess Rwd, you have your answer. I love this forum. Over here I can report that the Decca, in my collection of various tonearms, still works best of all on my fluid-damped unipivot, set for upper-medium mass. I can't wait to get my new Decca International tonearms, assuming the money gets to Europe! I'll be re-wiring them almost immediately. Hmmm, the Jubilee... |
Rwd, The Super Gold is a more practical cartridge due to its construction, the flat-bottomed Gold often unable to play the intro grooves because of its flat bottom. Plus, the Super Gold comes with the improved stylus. However, I can vouch for the sound quality of the regular Gold, but if it were me, I'd either get the Maroon (which I suspect is damned good anyway, built like the Gold but cheaper), or jump up the the Super Gold or Jubilee. I look forward to reading of your experience with it. Though I have a Maplenoll with fluid damping trough at the front of the headshell, I have to say the Decca performs better, so far, in the damped unipivot I have. So use the VPI damping! If your experinece works out, I may start saving for a VPI myself, though those Decca Internationals are coming, I hope... |
I've just received the Decca International tonearms, at a total cost of roughly $40 each including shipping and taxes. They look like beauts: watch this space all those of you who have a sense of adventure, nothing touches a Decca for excitement! Ordering from Tjoeb really works! Ken Kessler uses this tonearm for his own Decca. |
Tbg, I went to this particular Tjoeb website, http://www.hifi-notes.com/ah1-en.htm, where I posted my request for info. A man called Herman contacted me, we worked out our order (mine was for two arms for me and one for a friend), which came to a total of 110 euros cash (very small profit, if any) for payment and shipment, registered mail. It took about two weeks. I have to say that on auditioning it sounded quite punchy, balanced and detailed with a Grado Woody, but it will definitely benefit from a re-wiring job which I will do presently. In the process I discovered that my Audiomeca's main bearing is shot. Time for a new 'table! |
I think my Decca needs an overhaul, having that difficult VdH stylus profile which may now be worn. The Decca International, a damped unipivot, is in the same ball park as my Maywayre damped unipivot for extracting performance from the Decca. Strangely enough, I mounted my Grado Platinum on it and it has never sounded better. In fact, it reminded me quite a lot of the Decca on this arm! The Decca International majors on Prat, seems good from the frequency extremes to the mid-range, making everything very musical. Last night I said "the hell with re-wiring, I'm just going to enjoy my records!" There is a tweak available right away for the Decca tonearm. I had ordered a replacement metal headshell for my Connoisseur BD1's plastic headshell years ago, and so immediately recognized the headshell. I tried the metal headshell and it fit perfectly. Also, the plastic plug can be glued into the tonearm tube with glass epoxy, which should be a significant imporvement, and if the metal headshell is an improvement over the plastic headshell (you never know with a Decca), I will report on this. I ordered two tonearms, so I can compare a stock arm, (the one which had me mesmerized already last night), to a re-wired arm, which if it is an improvement, I will eventually totally mod as I've described. The place to order the metal headshell is Technical and General in England, which can only be done by phone or mail. |
Thanks for all the suggestions guys. In fact, I did try the Decca on an idler-wheel drive, though not a Garrard, (instead a Lenco L75, an overlooked engineering marvel which just needs the Garrard treatment of heavier plinth & etc. to boogie) and the dynamics were too much! I mean really! I thought my tweeters were going to vaporize from the PLUCKED guitar strings! And I will have my Decca rebuilt, thanks, Topox, though it still sounds good, must experiment. The fluid damping made a HUGE difference to the performance of the arm, and there are all sorts of friction-fit connections in the arm which I've already glued with glass-epoxy. The re-wiring is almost done, as I use my own recipe here. I'll be testing it tonight to see how the arm is with the mods. It's difficult work because of the very powerful magnets in the main bearing housing, which makes a Platine Verdier-like magnetic cushion for the unipivot to rest on: probably why the thing sounds so good even with the crappy wiring and friction-fits. I didn't have the heart to replace the headshell, because of the perfect geometry I can achieve in my Lenco, and because with a Decca who knows? I mean, the bracket is friction-fit plastic, isn't it? And there's that cool bubble-level, a very good idea with a unipivot, non? And I hope the Jubilee makes you happy, Tbg, I've never heard a Jubilee so I hope you post a thorough review of it here. I may follow in your footsteps! Vive la Decca! |
You're welcome, Joe. Out of curiosity, how many did you order? I've been working on mine all night tonight, and while incredibly cheesy, it's also brilliant! I mean the tonearm and unipivot floats on a magnetic cushion ferchrissakes! There's a bubble-level in the headshell! The azimuth is adjustable by micrometer at the back of the tonearm! The antiskating is magnetic! And I've got to say it again: I don't think I've ever heard better Prat! On the other hand all that plastic, all those friction-fits (with little screws) and that crap wiring! But even plain-jane this thing makes MUSIC, so much so, I wonder why I went to all the effort of modding it. And I've never heard my Platinum sound better! I hope I didn't ruin it, as sometimes these things are better left alone. Good thing I ordered two. You'll be hearing a report in both threads! |
Tbg, yep, that's the European Community, at least in meaning (Communauté Européene?). And yes, that's the message I received. And they duly arrived. |
I bought them at a Money Exchange for tourists. The major banks sell them as well. |
Tbg, Garrard 501! I'm a total idler-wheel convert (well, almost total, as the classic 3-point suspension does give excellent Prat): please send me your impressions re. build and sound quality, as well as price! I have just mounted my Decca International, with every friction-fit glued with glass epoxy and re-wired with my favourite formulation, and I am pleased to report that the Decca's excellent Prat (perhaps the best I've heard) is intact, and that there was a consequent increase in control and detail at all frequencies. The arm is "forward," however, with everything moved up in your face, but it still layers the soundstage and so forth, and that Prat is addictive! It's now set up permanently in my own idler-wheel creation, currently set up with a Grado so I can have a reference when I test it in someone's high-end system tonight. I'll be trying the Decca cartridge after the test (early impressions being that EXTREME dynamics which made me fear for my tweeters). The tonearm mounting hole is 1 1/8", and the stylus to pivot point is 8 3/8". I do believe that the Mayware (which was actually an attempt at re-creating the Decca to more stringent engineering standards), is a better arm overall for the Decca cartridges, as it has higher (variable) mass, but I wouldn't want to bet on this (as the Decca tonearm has that cool magnetic suspension). I don't think I'll ever make this comparison, as I'm happy with the Decca where it currently sits, and so I'll mount the Mayware on another 'table, and then compare. Happy listening! |
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I won't ask the cost of the Schroeder, but I am looking forward to your report on the sound of the Jubilee, which I assume will have less of the mistracking problems of the Deccas of yore. I once had a Super Gold which tracked everything perfectly in my damping-trough Maplenoll, which is why I am puzzled at this one's recalcitrance in the same Maplenoll. I might have better luck in the Decca International, as this one has adjustable azimuth via the micrometer wheel at the back, and I think this is the problem - a crookedly-glued diamond. It could also be viscosity of the fluid: so many parameters. I believe the sample to sample variations are wiped out in the new "London" brand, and especially in the Jubilee, the flagship product. Good Luck! |
Black Widow! I can't believe it, but I read a comment by someone on AA that the Decca tracked very well in the Black Widow, and I was surprised as that was the LAST tonearm I ever thoguht a Decca could track in, being ultra low-mass and having knife-edge bearings to boot. I mean, you'd think that it would rattle like a castanet in that, right? Well, having recently acquired one, I thought I'd give it a whirl to see what's what: do you know it tracked operatic Vivaldi, Mannheim Steamroller, and some very difficult pop recordings I have (Talk Talk) without mistracking once? Like a normal cartridge! And I have owned several Deccas and have to say that this particlar one has been the most difficult I've owned. And my Black Widow doesn't even have the fluid damping option! I mean, it was almost boring, it tracked so normally, sounding just like an average MC (I'll have to mount the Black Widow, given this, on one of my more serious 'tables)! Any other matches out there I should know about? And how's the Schroeder experience going? And others? |
No mistracking from a Decca! That's the best news in decades! Is it because the new stylus profile and quality-control really works, or is it because of the Schroeder? I sense a door opening: I see a new Decca in my future..yes, the image is getting clearer..please let us know when you are ready to give us a full review vs the J. Allaert, myself, anyway, will be looking forward to this with bated breath. Thanks for the info.
Regards,
Jean |
Decca Gold cartridges rave review in this month's HiFi World magazine! He says he got perfect tracking from a modded Rega arm! They must have changed something (stylus profile?). Then again, perhaps it's time I try a similar combo again and see if this particular Decca Super Gold likes the Rega arm. You never know... |
Deccas are strange cartridges, Patrick, and you never know where they will work next. They do like unipivots, and so on this score it should work with your Graham. They are said to prefer higher mass tonearms, but on my Black Widow, it tracks no problem, which is very strange, as the Black Widow is an ultra-low-mass tonearm with knife-edge bearings, the last thing I would think it could track in! Tbg reports good results in the Schoeder tonearm. So, my guess is that if you get a new Decca - like the one reviewed in this month's Hi Fi World - the new stylus profile (at least I have heard it is new) will make it more tonearm-friendly.
The difficulty of mounting the Lenco into a new plinth depends on how familiar you are with tools. Having the outer dimensions cut for you helps a lot in the final finish: amateur cuts with simple tools inside the 'table will not be visible. The plinth itself will be easy to drill, the Lenco top-plate is not very thick, so can be cut quite easily with a rotary tool or with a hacksaw. But you should get the tonearm aligment template and see if it won't just pop into the Lenco's own armhole. The Rega arm pops right in, but not with perfect geometry. I have just cut off the cormer of my latest Lenco L78 to allow for perfect geometry and VTA. I will post photos of this new plinth/'table soon on the Home Depot thread to give everyone an idea of how to do it. |
Yes, you are stark, raving mad! Just goes to show you that the Deccas - when you can get them to work well - are in many respects unmatched by anything devised to date, especially dynamics and speed. I have found an excellent and obvious match to my Decca: a Decca International tonearm. I am listening to it right now, and amazed that this very difficult cartridge (I have had other Decca Super Golds which behaved better than this latest one) is playing beautifull with no sign of mistracking. I have totally modded my Decca tonearm, re-wiring it, and glueing all the friction fits in place with epoxy-resin. NOW we're talking about detail and PRaT. The Decca International is not very strong in the bass, however, which mitigates that other Decca strength to some extent: powerful and juicy bass slam. According to a recent review in Hi-Fi World, the new Deccas now track superbly, being now fitted with a new stylus shape. For the moment, mine is tracking well too, and still blindingly fast and very detailed. Even smooth!!! |
Thanks for the head's up, Tbg, nothing dearer to my heart than a Decca mounted on an idler-wheel drive! |
Well, I finally got the Decca to sound great and track as flawlessly as I have ever heard it by mounting it on a...Decca. That's right, a Decca International cheap plastic-ky tonearm. But the thing is about the Decca cartridge, that provided it is on a tonearm which is sympathetic to its considerable demands, it always performs at a very high level. My Decca INternational tonearm is turbo-charged, however, with a mixture of Cardas tonearm wire and my favourite IC. It has also had all its friction-fit and screw fittings glued in place permanently to strengthen it and focus the sound. The end result is that unmatched Decca speed and slam and detail and bass and imaging, even on the humble Decca International! The Decca International is, however, a clever thing: it floats on two opposing ring-magnets inside the tonearm pillar, and it is a fluid-damped unipivot, tiny as that pivot is. It is a superbly musical tonearm tweaked or not, and with the Decca Super Gold on it truly up among the best High-End matches. The whole is mounted on my very quiet and slamming heavy idler-wheel drive, a re-plinthed Lenco. The whole is so dynamic and fast it is, like whisky, to be taken in small amounts, when one is being reasonable anyway. Any other happy endings out there? |
Don't give up on it Tobias, just get that tonearm/cartridge combo onto a better 'table! But given the Decca's incredible slam and speed, I am glad I have another 'table/tonearm/cartridge set up alongside for gentler moments! |
"London" still offers a re-build/restore service, and apparently their new stylus profiles are more user-friendly. One of these days, I'm going to send in my bitchin' Super Gold for one of these new tips, as that van den Hul stylus is a tracking nightmare on a Decca! I got an NOS 3-pin Decca FFss cartridge (spherical tip, blue body) and breifly listened to it, and it sounded every bit as detailed as my Super Gold on a brief test, and with NO tracking problems! I'm waiting to have time to re-do one of my tonearms for 3-pin hook-up to install it permanently, if I don't decide to sell it. Perhaps tomorrow! I'm actually becoming a convert to spherical tips, as the one on the Denon DL103 anyway sounds superbly detailed and tracks beautifully without problem, and of course the FFss as well on a very short audition. Anyway, I asked the question at the beginning of this thread: if anyone has one of the new London/Decca tips, does it truly track better than the older ones? |
Hi Adrian, I answered on the other thread, but here goes anyway: the Lenco is very a stable and neutral performer once rebuilt an dre-plinthed, and a good arm-cartridge match elsewhere should be even better on the Lenco, due to its easily-heard speed stability. I have to say that though the Decca International is a cheapie, at least in its cheesy plastic incarnation (there is a heavy-duty metal version), it is incredibly musical and PRaT-adept! Thanks for the info on the new stylus profile! |
