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Dealing with a large TV between speakers

Thought I'd post this since it's a glaring problem (somewhat literally, very figuratively). I've got a 50" rear projection LCD TV between my speakers that has to be there for many reasons (HT/living room/etc). Soundstaging on the x and y planes seems OK, perhaps a little narrow, but forget about the Z plane. All the action seems to take place horizontally between speakers, with vocals perhaps a bit projected forward.

I've done the Master Set method on my speakers. They are ~3ft from the rear wall and about 7.5' apart (measured from drivers) . The TV is about 20" out from the rear wall and 4.5' wide. There is roughly 18" between the speakers and the sides of the TV.

For a better visual, I've created a drawing here that I've used for submission to various acoustic panel websites.

As you can see, speakers and TV are along the long wall, and I only have about 12' total between that wall and the wall behind me. I can't move the speakers out too much more, and based on Master Set and the rule of thirds, they seem to be where they should and they do sound good there (no bass bloat, clear imaging, etc). There is roughly 2' of space between the rear wall and my head.

What I've done so far for treatment are the acoustic and diffusion panels you see in the picture, and I've wrapped thick round foam pipe insulation (the tubes you can buy at Home Depot) vertically along the sides of the TV, which seems to help. I've also experimented with hanging a diffusion panel or light foam panels over the front of the TV to cover the front. However, I'm not noticing much of a difference with the front of the TV treated or not, surprisingly (I assumed that there would be more glare and smearing with such a large, untreated, reflective surface between the speakers and directly in front of me).

Outside of throwing a blanket over the TV (which I tried, didn't really work) do you see any way to accomplish more depth to the soundstage? Questions and comments welcome, but keep in mind, I can't move the TV.
tholt

Showing 4 responses by bryoncunningham

bryoncunningham
893 posts
 
...speakers and TV are along the long wall, and I only have about 12' total between that wall and the wall behind me.

As you seem well aware, this is the heart of the problem. As I see it, you must play a game of inches. The solution, suggested by several posters, of moving your speakers farther into the room, and thus closer to you, is a natural one, and worth experimenting with. I have a fear about that solution, however, which is that, by getting your (I believe) 3 way speakers closer to you than (the current) 9 feet, you may have problems with driver integration, i.e., coherence. To me, that is a more important consideration than soundstage depth.

In light of that, I agree with Mark's suggestion of getting a flat panel TV and wall mounting it. If I interpreted your measurements correctly, that would place the surface of the TV at least ten inches further back from the drivers of the speakers than it is currently. I know that's not a huge amount, but like I said, this is a game of inches.

The other thing I would consider experimenting with, if you haven't already, is moving your speakers a little farther apart, so that you are a bit closer to an equilateral triangle. I don't think that will improve soundstage depth per se, but it should enlarge the soundstage on the x axis, and possibly enlarge the image sizes slightly, which might compensate, psychologically, for the lack of soundstage depth.

Good luck!

bryoncunningham
893 posts
 
I agree with Shadorne that the principal problem lies in your system's orientation along the long wall. I assumed, looking and your photos and overhead plan, that moving the system to the short wall was not an option. If that is an option, then that will be your best solution by far.

However, if you must keep your system on the long wall, then I respectfully disagree with Shadorne that your television is not a factor in your efforts to get the best sound possible with that configuration. I too have a large TV screen between my speakers. When I sit down to listen, I place a large piece of acoustic foam (12" in depth) in front of the TV screen. This minimizes undesirable comb filtering effects by reducing first order reflections from the TV. The result, IME, is an audible improvement in image focus and soundstage depth.
bryoncunningham
893 posts
 
Since you cannot move your setup to a short wall, here are two more things to consider:

1. Maybe you would have better luck with diffusion behind the listening position, rather than absorption, as indicated in your overhead plan. I have a friend who listens close to the rear wall, and the addition of diffusion behind his listening position improved his soundstage significantly. Since you already have diffusors in the room, you can easily experiment with them on the rear wall.

2. I just noticed that you have a vaulted ceiling. I once had a listening room with a vaulted ceiling, and it resulted in lots of undesirable effects, some of them unpredictable. I was able to minimize these effects by hanging absorptive baffles like these. Whether it would improve your soundstage, I cannot say, but it should improve things generally.
bryoncunningham
893 posts
 
With the absence of the TV, the soundstage was hovering in space between and behind the speakers, and thus seemed to be more holographic and go deeper...Also, the removal of the TV alleviated some frequency glare in the midrange.

This was my experience exactly.

And being a true and crazy audiophile, yesterday I went down to Best Buy and bought a flat panel plasma to hang on the wall. This despite my current TV working perfectly fine.

Yes, that was crazy. And it is exactly what I would have done. :)
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