DBP-10 Protractor Instructions......

Dear Hifimaniac: +++++ " protractor made specifically for this arm. " +++++

IMHO there is no protractor " made specifically for this arm ". What exist are different geometry cartridge/tonearm set up: Stevenson, Löfgren, Baerwald, Pisha, etc with different standard values: DIN or IEC and even you can choose your owns.

If you want you can kage your own protractor or two or three " different " protractors and test in your rig and decide which one of those geometry cartridge/tonearm set up works best for you.

The Mint is only one of multiple geometry set up options that could works in your rig and maybe not the best one.
All those geometry options has its own trade offs, there is no perfect geometry in a pivot tonearm where distortions all over the LP playing surface be at minimum.

Over the net there are Stevenson, Baerwald or Löfgreen Calculators where you can choose whatever you want and make your own protractor with the Calculator values. Even on Vinyl Engine you can get free different geometry protractors.

You don't need to be Von Braun to work about.

regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Actusreus: +++++ " So if you order a protractor for the JMW-9, it will be "made specifically for this arm," based on the Baerwald values. " +++++

that's right and that " specifically " tonearm made protractor can/must be used with any other tonearm that has the same effective length than the JMW-9!!!!!!!

But that IMHO dishonest Mint people let you think that if you have two same effective length pivot tonearms from different manufacturer/designs you need two " specifically made " protractors!!!!!!: these dishonest Mint people are only decieve/cheat/fool you ( and making a fraud ) because your very low knowledge about geometry tonearm/cartridge different algorithm calculations.

These Mint people IMHO only want to take away your money when you can do it for your self by free!!!!!

Any of the geometry algorithms calculations ( Baerwald, Lófgren, Stevenson, etc, etc. ) needs three primary parameters and parameter values: tonearm effective length, innermost groove and outermost grooves.
With these parameters values the final calculations give you: offset angle, stylus overhang, inner null point, outer null point, spindle to pivot distance.

With these final calculations/values you can build your own protractor as you can see in VE or Enjoy the music:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/freestuff.htm

Now, on each one of those different algorithms you can attain at least two different calculations that can give you two protractor choices for the same tonearm.

How is that?, well exist at least two Standards for the innermost/outermost groove values: DIN and IEC, depend which one you choose you will have two different tonearm/cartridge set up parameter values.

Even you can choose your own innermost/outermost values and make three-four or more protractors for the same tonearm for you can decide which one works beter for your specific needs/priorities not for the " specific " Mint need$$$$$$

regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear friends: IMHO there are several ways to deceive or to be dishonest with other people that buy an item/device: one is an active way telling or give the people wrong information, other is to on purpose give a not clear/confuse information and other is a passive one that is not telling/give the people the whole information.

In the Mint website you can read: " the template is tailor-made for a particular TT/tonearm set up. Using it on other set up will result in error and damage to the cartridge stylus "

In no place over the website tell you that that " tailor-made " protractor can be used in the same precise way with that same TT but with a different pivot tonearm that has the same effective length or even with a different TT that has the same spindle diameter.

So IMHO he at least is using a " passive " way not given the whole information to his customers.

He posted: +++++ " The above accusation assumes people who buy from me are ignorant and naive. Yes I have many new entrant users but my guess is over 85% of my users are very well experienced in analogue playing and they really know what they want. " +++++

I know that at least in this forum the 90% of the people has very low knowledge on the whole subject.
There are several threads where this subject was on discussion and where any one can read that the majority of the persons has very low know how, even in this thread I know that except one person all the other ones till a few months had low knowledge about.

In this thread we have examples of that low know-how:

+++++ " is constantly evolving and the thought of having to possibly buy a new protractor for over 100 bucks every time my system changes is not the direction I wanted to go " ++++

well not exactly, only if change the effective length on the tonearm or spindle diameter in the TT.

+++++ " Sure the Mint is useless once you change your tonearm, " +++++ ( same as the above.

+++++ " Baerwald-based protractors minimize the tracking error across the entire record, on the other hand. " +++++

wrong assumption: Baerwald minimize errors only out the null points but inside are higher.

I can take some other examples of some of you that posted in other threads to see how the knowledge is still to low in the whole subject.

So that " assumption " that " 85% of my users are well experienced ... " is only an " utopia " or a " convenient " answer.

He posted too:

+++++ " I do put up a warning on the Best Tractor to make sure new entrants would not use a wrong tractor for a wrong tonearm which can have tragic outcome.

But I believe 99% of my users know what is meant by Effective Length " ++++++

where in that " warning " he speaks about effective length?, no where: why is he " reserving " that critical and valuable information for the customers?

There are so many factors on tonearm/cartridge geometry algorithms set up that I think that only a few persons really understand in deep and really know what they want. many of you are best knowledge in the subject today that six months ago and that's because we learn here in agon through different threads with the subject on discusion.

It is very easy to add in the Mint website: you can use the same Mint protractor with different TT/tonearms if does not change the tonearm effective length or the TT spindle diameter .

I don't care if he will do it or not, what I care is that all of you that are interested and the people that read the thread can be aware about and can understand in a better way the whole subject for when they ask for a Mint protractor they ask in precise way what they want it.

Dear friends: from my point of view when one person is not disclosing all the pertinent information for I can decide and buy any item/device and because of that I buy something that I really don't need or that does not fullfill what I want IMHO that person is a " dishonest " person or: what is the word or right word that any of you can use on this subject?, for me " dishonest " but if you have any better then please post it.

Please remember that that protractor is on sale through internet that needs more specific information where the seller " disclose " every detail on the product.

I'm with and in the customer side and I'm not arguing or questioning if the Mint protractror works or not or if the protractor owners are happy or not, these is not the main discuss subject.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Actusreus: Thank's for your explanation, good to know that I'm wrong and that almost everyone has the right knowledge on the whole subject.

Just a question for Mint protractor owners: when you receive the Mint protractor and re-set the cartridge/tonearm set up do you change the pivot tonearm position?

regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Dear Actusreus: I'm not against " the business man " and profits but against what that " business man " let you and " oriented " for what you understand in good faith.

+++++ " most vinyl enthusiasts, like myself, do not want to deal with calculations, different parameter values, or innermost/outermost groove values, etc " +++++

because of that it is easy to make business with people: why try to make business with deceives.

Anyway, you get my point.

Regards and enjoy the music,
raul.

regards and enjoy the music,
raul.

Dear Actureus: Btw, the only date/value you have to know is the effective length on your tonearm, is this parameter the only one you have to deal with it is this value the one that you introduce in the Calculator Input and this Calculator not only gives: stylus overhang, offset angle, pivot to spindle distance and null points but a diagram/graphic where you can see how/which , with that algorithm , trackin error and tracking distortion you have over the playing LP surface.

I give you all the other parameters only to explain how all those different algorithms work but you only need to deal with the tonearm effective lenght.

Anyway, an option.

regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.