Frank; i hope all is well with you.
no amp is perfect to all ears or in all systems. and all the amps discussed in this thread are very good.
regarding Mr. Fritz's review of the darTZeel NHB-108; Mr. Fritz did not say that the darTZeel was not a good amp, but that for it's price it was not competitive with two other references that he has on his speakers; that it was not 'special' enough sounding and lacked dynamics.
i had two issues with Mr. Fritz's conclusions.
1. Soundstage asked the darTZeel importer for an amp to review. at that time all the demos were loaned out but the importer did have a brand new one that he could send along.....but.....it would require a 30 DAY BREAKIN for it to sound correct. Soundstage agreed to spend the time for that breakin....as they were anxious to get the darTZeel amp.
in the past all the darTZeel amps were burned in for 30 days at the factory...and no additional breakin was required. when the importer ordered 30 of the things at once the factory was not able to burn all these in at once and so the importer agreed to pass on the info to darTZeel owners. the importer had been careful to only send out broken in darts for demo.
2. the older draTZeel amps had no automatic DC compensation. it needed to be adjusted by hand once put into a system. with the new run of amps (with a 'B' designation in their serial number) the amps do have automatic DC compensation. unfortunately, the amps don't sound nearly as good when this auto circut is engaged. there is a jumper that allows you to turn off DC compensation.
the importer asked Soundstage to call him ONCE BREAKIN WAS COMPLETE to get instructions about turning off the DC compensation.
i have had 5 different darTZeels in my room....one of the orginals and 4 of the new version. i have broken in 4 new darTZeel's and turned of the DC compensation in each. the performance is really dramatically different in terms of refinement, noisefloor, and textural nuance when the DC compensation is turned off. at 30 days the amp 'gets its legs' in terms dynamic grip and low frequency weight.
Mr. Fritz had the darTZeel for 2 weeks and did not play it continuously. he never checked back with the importer for information. he was not impressed....which is understandable. i had the same initial experience with the dart. i listened to a new dart for about a week and then went back to my Tenor Hybrids. a month later i tried the darTzeel again.....only this time i kept using it. the improvement was not gradual....all of a sudden at about 30 days the thing stood up and came alive. i called the importer and then he told me to defeat the DC auto compensation.
the amp was a different animal.
Jeff Fritz wrote what he heard; no one questions that. but, what he heard was not what the darTZeel amp is about.
the same amp that had gone to Mr. Fritz next went to Mike Malinowski of Stereo Times. Mike also has X-2's. Mike loved the darTZeel, wrote a review, and bought the damn thing.
the darTzeel amp is not perfect, and not for everyone. but it is very special.
and then we get to the dart preamp.....WOW! |
OK guys; so you want to know about the dart pre? you sure you don't want to debate reviewing methodology a little more?
;^)
i had one of the first two production run dart pre's (the other one is in Europe) in my room for a week prior to the RMAF, and then for a few days right afterwards. so about 10 days in total. this unit is from the initial production run but was not fully functional. it was rushed here so it could be shown at the RMAF. it only had one BNC output and one RCA input operational. the remote control was still flukey. i am told fully functional dart pre's will ship in November (mine is fully paid for and in the first batch).
for the first week i had it i assumed that it was running on the battery power......as i drooled all over myself at it's amazing performance (for those of you that have not already read my comments click on my system below and read the more recent posts on my system thread). the day i shipped it out to RMAF i found Herve' e-mailed me to let me know that the software for the pre-production pre was buggy and you needed to unplug the pre if you wanted to hear it is DC mode (this will not be necessary for the regular production units). so all my initial comments related to the pre running on AC. as it turned out; i ended up only listening for about 20 minutes total in battery mode due to some pre-production issues. these 20 minutes were quite mind-blowing.
so i have listened to the new dart pre for a week in my room; then for 4 days at RMAF (in a very similar system but different room), and then back in my room for a few more days.
Henryhk, to answer your questions;
since only one BNC output was operational; it was not possible to try the new pre with anything but the proprietary darTZeel 'zeel' connector (BNC connectors with a 50 ohm cable) and dart amps. i could not compare cables or other amps. it is too bad as i really wanted to know how my Valhalla interconnects and Tenor Hybrids might have compared. when i get my new pre (with all the outputs operational) that will be one of the first things i try.
if i were guessing, i would expect that most of the magic of the pre would transfer to other amps. the only caution would be that the darTZeel amps are particlarly quiet and without any sort of mechanical nature or any sort of added warmth. the pre is sooo transparent that any coloration of any kind will be fully rendered.
how does the new darTZeel pre compare to other preamps? i can only relate it directly to my Balanced Placette RVC passive. first, i have compared the Placette to around 15 SOTA pre's over the last 4 years and always preferred the Placette in my room and system for it's total transparency, lack of veiling, superior microdynamics, and naturalness without edge.
the new dart pre improves on every aspect of the Placette's character and in a few ways goes waaay beyond. first, there is a liquidity, palpability, and delicacy that is simply unique. it took me a few hours of listening before i could understand how this was happening. eventually i figured out that there was a layer of 'greyness' that was removed from the music, a kind of distortion that i had been accepting as detail and texture. with this greyness gone; the music was just there without edge, with considerably more substance and nuance. everything just was more real and pulsating with life......more ACTION.....like 'live' when the recording captured that. details that had been obscure or just hinted at became significant. separation between instruments was greater but also more natural. the greyness also had given an unnatural edge to things....with that gone the soundstage was more like live.
it's late, i gotta go to bed....more later. |
i guess we really do want to debate review methodology. if you want my further take on the dart pre you'll find it on my system thread when i have the time.
regarding what Honda might do. Honda spends around 2 Billion dollars and at least 4 years to develop a new model. the market expectation is likely up to 1 to 3 million units worldwide for the model run. and......they still put break-in oil in the crankcase and advise that the best gas milage won't occur until at least 5000 to 10,000 miles. it is important to be easy on the brakes for the first few 100 miles. on certain models, the RPM's need to be restricted over the first 500 miles. the seats and suspension do slightly 'breakin' over the first 500 to 1000 miles. i drive 3 to 4 new demos a year for 25 years so i'm quite expert on breakin for Hondas. so for a company that is race engineering based; clearly breakin is reality.
many times customers complain about their car because THEY DIDN'T READ THE OWNERS MANUAL OR PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THE SALESPERSON TOLD THEM ABOUT BREAKIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in fact; anyone can get on the internet and post a complaint about their Honda whether they followed initial instructions or not. when a complaint finally gets to me i ask why they didn't just call us first so WE COULD HAVE EXPLAINED IT TO THEM......AGAIN.
sound familiar?
Jeff's review was not wrong, just like my customers are not wrong. but their perspective is incomplete without following all the instructions so the product will perform as it should.
next case.......
|
Jack,
regarding how my post on the Esoteric/emmlabs comparison compares to Jeff's review;
1. my post was not a formal review, it was a one-day shootout...no more, no less.
2. full disclosure. i was very forthcoming about exactly the circumstances of what i did, down to the shelves and interconnects used.....with a picture of the setup.
3. breakin. at least i addressed the issue and said what i knew.
4. i mentioned that the gear was set up according to what the importer had told my friend. i certainly did not ignore any specific insrtuctions that were given me.
i gave any reader enough info to judge for themselves exactly whether my conclusions were valid. also, i had the comments of two other listeners included.
i did not represent my 'shootout' as the last word and even questioned whether there might be something wrong with the Esoteric gear. |
Jack, the difference between us is that my 'R' likely should be an 'A'; and your 'A' should be an 'M'.
:^)
Frank, the reason i deleted that 'early Sunday morning' post was after hitting 'submit' i thought that maybe if i just didn't go any further we could get back to the title subject of this thread. fat chance.
...and where did i lambast anyone?
OB, call me and i'd be glad to expand. but not here. |
Frank, while i may agree with jtinn regarding the review methodology, i don't agree in any way with jtinn's characterization of Marc and Jeff or his opinion of their motivations....and have told him that is how i feel. i think you know that i am not one to blindly follow anyone or defend a friend's assinine assertions. you should know that from your personal history with me.
i think you are waay off base in assuming that likeing the same gear means that myself or Hooper approve of jtinn's posts. jtinn speaks for jtinn. i am loyal to the person, but not to all the acts. jtinn doesn't always agree with me either.
this whole thing is getting just too weird for me.
this is suppose to be about music. |
Jafox, thanks for the comments. i agree that obvious 'raves' like mine do typically require a reader's personal experience to become credible. it CAN be arranged.
a couple of weeks ago i did have some visitors to investigate my perceptions of what the dart pre was doing in my system.......although they were hesitant to identify what was doing what......they were pretty taken with what they heard; compared to other previous sessions in my room.
i have not tried the K-S Emotion in my system. when i get the production version of the dart pre i will be investigating how regular cables will compare with the BNC approach of the dart. if i get the chance i'll try the K-S.....they are on my short list of cables i'd like to try. |
OB, the manual was written for the original version of the amp and not for version 'B'. if you read my first post in this thread; it describes the reason for the required breakin. when the importer ordered a large amount of these amps at once; the manufacturer did not have the facility to burn them in in a timely way. So the importer accepted the responsibility to tell the customers about that. also, version 'B' has the auto DC compensation circut that is also not mentioned in the manual.
it is curious that Mr. Fritz's review doesn't say one tiny word about breakin, and then in an e-mail i asked him directly about break-in and in his response he ingnored my question. now Frank tells us it was broken in for 5 weeks.....and still no word about the DC compensation.
either he followed the importer's instructions fully or he did not. i guess each person will have to judge for themselves what happened.
i posted this same message last night as a response to Frank's post but it was blocked by the moderator. why? i don't know. there was nothing inflamitory about that post or any others of mine in this thread. |
all, i have been watching TV for the last 4 days. this thread has made me avoid listening to music......as i don't want to be reminded of these issues. i listen to escape the daily stress and look forward to sharing in the audio community.
i accept my share of the blame.
this morning i am back listening. |
OB, you have asked me a question 2 different times and for various reasons i had not yet answered you.....my apologies.
i was fortunate that yesterday i again took possesion of the pre-production darTZeel preamp......i drove to Portland and back.....got home at about 7:30pm last night.....plugged it in......and listened until about 3 in the morning. for the first few hours digital, then vinyl until i couldn't keep my eyes open any longer. i got my second wind at about 10;30pm and my third wind about 1:30am.
so my aurial memory is now 'real-time'.
so what the hell do i mean by 'liquidity, palpability, and delicacy' when describing this preamp?
when i say 'this preamp' i mean the pre-production dart pre, the pair of Stereo dart NHB-108 amps, and the BNC cables connecting them. since i can only use the proprietary connection at this time i cannot assign cause and effect between the pre, the amps and the cables.
by 'liquidity' i mean 'liquid' as opposed to 'dry'. real life has a lack of edge; if you close your eyes and concentrate on real life sounds (not reproduced) there is no real edge to sounds, even fingernails on a blackboard have no 'outline' or abrupt starting point. real sounds are not 'dry' and lifeless. real sounds are rendered in a context of 'air' around them; they exist in relation to what else is happening.
an SET amp typically sounds 'liquid'......althought usually at the expense of immediacy and lack of frequency extention and speed. the tube warmth of a typical SET amp does portray a type of liquidity, or lack of 'dryness'. the darTzeel combo's liquidity is more a removal of distortion than an added something. my interpreation of what i hear from the dart pre is that a layer of 'hash' or distortion is removed from the music that leaves that more real liquidity that more closely resembles real life.
the tangible benefits of this lack of distortion or 'liquidity' is more real detail. this is easiest to hear with massed strngs or choral works; where it is easy to tell what is different. whereas previously, these musical events were percieved as 'those musicians or instruments over there'....now they are percieved as that group of players over there singing/playing together but now each 'voice' has a purpose and message. it greatly enhances the musical gestault and draws me into the music. i am listening to an event and not the playback chain with it's own character.
palpability is the sense of realistic size and shape of things; also of true flavor, texture, and action. is there something real connected to that sound? is dis-belief suspended? is there a sense of natural scale and feeling? can i taste it? feel it? am i there?
is it palpable? is it real?
delicacy is simply the ability to complete tiny things correctly; and not obscure or artifically interpret the tiny but all-important heart of acoustic music. when music is delicate......it moves me.
these three issues are connected; the dart combo does these things at another level or two higher than i have yet heard before. at first it is a little disorienting; since some of your reference recordings have such a different feel. but after relaxing into the music i have found that everything is just more real.
again; i apologise for the delay in my answer; my heart was just not into the beauty of music for a few days. |
Fsarc; i am not currently using battery mode. i did previously twice briefly (15 minutes total) hear this pre in battery mode and it was spooky good. this pre-production model is not fully sorted out so i am avoiding the battery mode.
what i heard during those brief glimses into the battery mode was a focus and naturalness that was unique. my perceptions on this are provisional; it takes time to get a handle on what is actually happening. the one thing that i heard that got me very excited was the additional micro dynamics and 'jump' factor in battery mode......very explosive and real sounding.
i can't wait for an extended session of battery mode listening. |
Battery Power....WOW!!!
an update on the darTZeel preamp.
a week ago i retrieved the darTZeel (pre-production) preamp from the distributor. i am still breaking in my 2 darTZeel NHB-108 amps (another 10 days to go) so this last week i've been investigating the internal phono stage of the dart pre; trying to put a few hours on it and wanting to compare it to my Lamm LP2 phone stage. when i previously had the dart pre i only listened briefly to the phono stage and my comparisons were were quite limited.
there were a few challenges i had to get my answers. first, some deep background.
my long-term reference cartridge has been the vdH Colibri XCP 8.5mv output. i have always loved the clarity, naturalness and explosiveness of this cartridge. over the last couple of years as my room and system changed; i found that the balance of the Colibri XCP had made many of my favorite recordings too edgy for my tastes. i had gone from my Tenor OTL's to the Tenor Hybrid amps; from my old very damped room to my new very live room, from my old forgiving Kharma Exquisites to the VR9's.......my system was much more alive and told me more but was unforgiving of the Colibri's vividness. so after playing around with the Colibri and trying different setup approaches i tried the Dynavector XV-1s. the XV-1s had a much lower gain (.24mv) but was much more forgiving.....i gave up some of the excitement of the Colibri but more of my music was enjoyable than with the Colibri.
during this same time i had been using the darTZeel amps on and off. one significant issue was that the darTZeel was not an ideal match for my Placette passive and Jena Labs switchbox. i did not get the gain with that combo that i had got with the Tenor Hybrids and the Placette. the darTZeel design without global negative feedback and lower overall gain still worked with the .85mv output of the Colibri but was quite marginal with the XV-1s at .24mv output. there were not only gain issues but also impedence issues when using my Placette.
in any case i had been enjoying the XV-1s thru the Tenors and Placette and also thru the darTZeel amps and Placette (although with less dynamics and gain).
then at RMAF, a friend offered to allow me to try his ZYX Universe cartridge (also .24mv output) as a change of pace to the Dynavector XV-1's. To properly audition the .24mv output ZYX i did re-install my Tenor's 10 days ago so would have enough gain to properly hear it. compared to the Dynavector i found the Universe to be less lush but more energetic, similar in some ways to the Colibri but more buttoned down.
fortunately, last Saturday i found out i could again try the dart pre so i drove to Portland and picked it up. i then removed the Tenors and reinstalled the dart amps and installed the dart pre. the dart pre only has the proprietary 'zeel' outputs active so i had no choice of amps. the ZYX Universe remained and during the last week i listened to the Universe thru the dart pre and dart phono stage. the Dart phono stage had plenty of gain for the Universe.
sorry for the long explaination; but without that background; the following wouldn't make much sense (it may still not).
this brings me to last night; the challenge......how to compare the Lamm LP2 phono stage and the dart pre internal phono stage. i friend came over yesterday about 4pm to lend his ears and moral support.
i found that when using the internal dart phono stage (which is listed at 62db of gain) i had plenty of gain for both the ZYX Universe and the Dynavector XV-1s. OTOH when playing the Lamm LP2 thru the dart pre and dart amps; there was not enough gain to properly judge the performance of the ZYX or Dynavector.
so.....if i wanted to compare the two phono stages; i would have to install my trusty Colibri with it's .85mv output; this would allow the Lamm to have plenty of gain thru the dart combo (when using the dart pre as strictly a line stage).
i actually removed the ZYX and installed another of my cartridges (a Colibri XGW .65mv output) first...but had some sort of hum issue; then i did install my Colibri XCP and did a rough (5 minute) setup.
first, into the Lamm. very nice; with plenty of gain the Lamm and Colibri made a beautiful combination......probably the best overall vinyl performance i had yet heard.
the playlist;
Buena Vista Social Club, 'Candela' Classic 45 version.
For Duke, 'Take the A Train', M&K DTD.
It Might As Well Be Swing, Sinatra/Basie, 'Fly Me To The Moon', Reprise original pressing.
Hasten Down The Wind, Linda Ronstad, 'Crazy', Asylum
Cantate Domino, 'Julsang', Proprius.
The Royal Ballet, all of side 1, Classic 33rpm reissue.
we eventually played many more but these were played initially on the ZYX, then the Colibri with the Lamm, and then the Colibri thru the internal dart phono stage.
i had not played the Colibri thru the dart pre before; i now heard the magic of the Colibri that had captivated me for three years. the naturalness of the dart pre, combined with the dart amps and Lamm was all there, similar in dynamics to the Tenor/Placette but less edgy and with more body and transparency. the Colibri was doing things i had not heard from the Universe in terms of overall naturalness and clarity; it sounded effortless....alive.
we now switched to the internal dart phono stage; things were the same but better somehow; much more microdynamic, lower noise floor, more expanded soundstage. overall, the complete picture was better.....not night and day...but better. even though the Lamm has tubes and the dart does not; you would have a hard time choosing which phono stage had tubes. the Lamm may have been slightly 'darker'......but tonality asnd textures were at least as good with the dart phono stage. the Colibri thru the dart phono stage was just a little more 'compelling' and involving.
remember, the dart phono stage had maybe 15 hours on it at this point, was a pre-production version, and had loading at 100 ohms (the Colibri likes 400-500 ohms ideally....the Lamm is loaded at 400 ohms)......and we were listening to the in AC mode.
at this point my friend turns to me and says...."ok Mike, you can sell the Lamm with no regrets"......which had been the question of the night. the Lamm sounded great.....but the Dart was a little better.
it was now about 6:30pm last night and my friend needed to get home. i suggested that we try battery mode on the dart pre. i cautioned that i had only tried it a couple of times but there was some sort of 'gremlin' in this unit that was not sorted out and in battery mode it was somehow outputting DC and would likely blow fuses in the amps within 5 minutes.....but it would be a spectacular 5 minutes and it was not that big an deal to change the fuses.
i had only tried the battery mode briefly on digital but i guessed that it might actually make more difference on the phono stage.
so i carefully turned the pre volume down, turned off the amps, turned off the pre, unplugged the pre, turned the pre back on, waited 90 seconds, and turned the amps back on....so far, so good. i would avoid using the remote control or switching anything so as to avoid anything that might send out DC.
i put 'Fly Me To The Moon' on the Rockport, dropped the needle, turned up the volume and turned down the lights.
from the first note there was something very different; in fact before the first note you could tell.....the 'air' was different between and before the note.....it was more there. Frank's voice was more than a voice, he was there. i was not thinking in 'sonic checklist' terms.....more in human terms. dis-belief was suspended......for about 4 more hours it was suspended. my friend didn't need to leave after all.
i assumed the fuses would blow after about 5 minutes; i kept cringing whenever i would turn the volume up or down. we played another cut, then another. there was never any problem. i would just turn the volume down when cueing and there was no noise, hum or ANYTHING. dead silence.
the listening was simply one 'Oh My God' after another. in battery mode the dart pre phono easily stomps anything i have personally heard in many ways. first, it is soo quiet that everything is just soo effortless. there is no strain. music just flows. dynamics, both micro and macro surpass anything i have heard. microdynamic action makes things so alive and vivid. the tonality and textural nuance can only be described as like 'life' or lifelike.
we played 'Nojima Plays List'...the Mephisto Waltz. playing this music on a system with full frequency capability and thru this gear brought the piano fully to life in front of us. i don't have the words to describe it. if you have heard a concert grand piano then you know how it sounds....that is how it sounded.
we played The Royal Ballet, side 1. i can only say WOW and double WOW. the orchestra came completely to life in the room. i get goosebumps just thinking about it.
Blues (Muddy Water's Folk Singer), Rock (Neil Youngs Greatest Hits), Folk (Lorna Hunt, All in One Day)......everything was just really silly good.
after 4 hours of battery mode my friend did go home; i then listened to digital in battery mode for another 2 hours; then this morning listened to digital in battery mode for a couple more hours. same basic things......although not quite to the same degree as the phono stage is more significant to the vinyl perfromance.
battery mode dramatically lowers the noise floor, dramatically increases dynamics, and really brings an effortlessness to music that has to be heard before you could appreciate what it does.
i expect healthy skepticism to this post; until a few people are able to hear what this does for themselves in battery mode that is reasonable.
i still need to re-install both the Dynavector and ZYX to see how they compare in battery mode; hopefully i'll ge to that in the next few days. my new dart pre should be here by late November hopefully.
i type slow and i've already lost too much of my Sunday to this.....but i wanted to share my enjoyment. |
thanks Fsarc and Sirspeedy, at the moment i am again listening to battery powered vinyl. hubba hubba!!
Janice Ian's 'Breaking Silence' at the moment. imagine that her voice is without all that breathyness (which turns out to be distortion).....it's just music. the transients are naked; without the 'fur' and overhang. it puts a strong pull on you.....it takes all my concentration to type anything. i want to close the laptop, turn down the lights, and groove with Janice.....and i can tell she is looking at me while singing (i don't think she's my type).
Fcarc, i'm using the 50 ohm cables that Herve provided for the ugly duckling (a 50 foot pair, with jumpers for the vertical bi-amping). it looks like about 10 bucks worth of garage sale cable. these are the same ones used at RMAF and last years CES.
i did buy a couple of Radio Shack 50 ohm 12' cables with BNC connectors.....which i used with my Placette (XLR from my switchbox to the Placette and XLR from the Placette to one channel of the darTZeel amps)......i used the BNC to jump from the channel with the XLR input to the other channel. it seemed to sound great.
the 12 footers from Radio Shack were about $17 each. will the Radio Shack BNC's sound as good as Herve's? good question. if i had the right connectors and two longer runs i could find out. according to jtinn Herve has some special machine that makes a proper connection and evidently that is significant.
the first thing i'm doing when i get the new fully functional dart pre is to compare cables; it's hard to imagine anything sounding better than how these BNC 'giant-killers' sound.....but you never know. |
FYI, i am now listening to the pre exclusivly thru battery mode; i will never go back. since i am still breaking in the dart amps i do leave it in AC mode when i'm not in the room; but switch to battery mode when listening. I am using the remote without incident including muting; whatever 'gremlin' caused the initial battery mode issues has vanished. i do still need to power down to switch to battery mode (unplug the pre); the regular production run of dart pre's will automatically be in battery mode without the need to worry about it. i have not found a limit to the length of time i can be in battery mode or even the slightest clue that the batteries are running down; i am told that the pre will do 'at least 12 continuous hours' in battery mode and likely longer......i have done 7 continuous hours with no issue except my body's need for sleep.
there are so many amazing aspects to the performance of the pre in battery mode that it boggles the mind.......but i keep being startled by the effortlessness of everything. it's like the damn AC power was a chain around the sound......no matter how you try to make the chain 'pretty' or palatable......it limits what can be done in music reproduction; at least in terms of preamps.
however over-the-top this reads......it is my feelings at the moment. |
Husk; after a quick review of my recent posts (specifically refering to battery power) i did find that each of my comments included a reference to either digital or analog.
if i were to summerize; i would say that since analog includes the battery powered phono stage as well as the preamp; analog is more dramatically improved than the digital. maybe if the power supply of the DAC was battery powered there would be the same level of improvement with digital.
also, analog is dealing with a higher potential for performance as it has more information.
;^)
every self respecting thread needs at least one analog verses digital comment. |
Herve Deletraz (Mr. darTZeel) sent me an explaination of why we had some problems with battery power initially that i thought i would pass on to those interested.
**************
Herve's message;
"this is ONLY for the pre-serial machine you have:
The preamp is always drawing battery current, even when the preamp is switched off. So when you received it, maybe that the batteries were severely drawn out due to no AC connections for a while. Restoring the full charge would take several DAYS to recover, so the problem you had with DC issues: Batteries were extremely low, much lower than the regulation threshold, so DC appeared.
Having left the preamp hooked on AC enough time has restored batteries so now you don't have DC issue when in battery mode (except that you still must turn the volume down when changing input source).
When you talk about "switching in battery mode", I suppose that you remove either the AC cord (edit; yes i do exactly that) or the umbilical, since there is no real switch to do that.
When the preamp has enough charge (after several days, or even a week), the power led will eventually goes off when the preamp is off. As long as the power led is illuminated when the preamp is off, charging is not completed and the preamp doe not run in battery mode until unplugging AC cord.
When not using the preamp it is very important to plug it on the AC again, or batteries will be drawn out again. In case of non use (unplugged) for more than 1 day (or for shipping) it is strongly recommended opening it and unplugging the battery connectors inside, located at the middle of the preamp, on the bottom of the main PCB.
When the machine is in battery mode, you can still hear slight difference when the umbilical in plugged or not, even if the external power circuit is fully switched off. This is due to some residual coupling with AC mains, but the difference is marginal. (edit; this means it gets even better).
The preamp you have is also suffering from all software bugs, so the use is not the most convenient one you could expect... My own sample behaves as yours, but with full software fixes. Battery behavior remains the same, but after some days they were charged, and provided I do not listen for more than 6-8 hours a day, they are always charged for the next day... I mean that a "standard" user can perfectly live with a pre-serial - debugged - sample... :-)"
**************
Herve also sent me info on how the production (commercial) units will work that i thought would be of interest.
**************
"All the following for the coming commercial release:
The new release will NOT drain current when off, and the charging process will be much smarter: always battery mode when switched ON, always charging when switched OFF. If batteries will go low during playback it will switch to AC mode, but if you will switch it off, you won't need to wait for the full charge before benefiting for battery mode: if you leave it for 1-2 hours off, you will have 2-3 hours on battery mode at power on, and of course more if you leave it off longer. No memory effect on batteries guaranteed, whatever the charge state. When leaving the preamp always on you will cycle the batteries continuously (about 8 hours charging, 12 hours discharging) and the total span life will be around 3 years. When using the preamp "normally", say, with quite intensive listening 4 hours a day and 5/7, you can expect a life span of 5-10 years (the figure is no more precise at the moment since we have to complete our tests; we think it is closer to 10 years than 5).
As most parts of the preamp will NOT be energized when the preamp will be off, it will take about 20-30 minutes to sound good. There is little difference, since small devices are much faster at right temperature than power devices.
This time, there will be NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL in battery mode with AC/umbilical plug removed or not. We will add AC relays in the external power supply, so in battery mode these relays will be activated, opening the AC circuit, EXACTLY as if you would unplug the cord: doing so would not improve things further, as you cannot better switch off a bulb you already removed from the lamp... :-)
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As for the sound, both machines are completely identical, and there is not a single component or layout change about the signal path in both versions. Differences will be mainly addressing the battery behavior, removing some remaining small caveats in the volume control command, and also a - hopefully - less directional, more sensitive IR receiver."
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i contemplated trying to explain the above myself but figured it would be better to just quote Herve's e-mail to me. however you describe it; the sound is miraculous. |
OB, i was not referring to the ML2.1's with my reference to typical SET warmth or limitations. i should have expected that you might take my comments to refer to your amps; sorry; that was NOT my intention at all. i would guess we both agree that in those areas the ML2.1's are very much not typical. warmth and limitations in dynamics and frequency extention are typical of most SET's in my experience.
BTW, i would expect that my reaction to the ML2.1's in your system would be similar to other visitors; i would expect it to sound great.
reading your comments regarding my 'flowery prose'.....when you say "anyone who has the same emotional involvement with the amp in their system" i assume you mean that any person with ANY amp (not specifically the darTZeel) might have the same perceptions. to a degree i can see your point. where i would disagree would be the affect with the darTZeel 'system' to somehow strip away a layer or two of distortion. like you i have listened to lots of gear......nothing has even approached what i percieve to be happening with the dart pre in my system.......and that is just using AC power. when i get a full production unit that uses battery it will go even further down this road.
i've certainly never assigned these attributes to any other amp or preamp; and i've heard quite a few pretty good ones.
i could be totally delusional and under the influence of the 'entity'......or my interpretation of the darTZeel's performance could be correct. |
