Ubglub: Where are you located? I have it here in Portland for a short time before I send it back to Switzerland for the last minute fine tuning which did not get done due to my rushing darTZeel to send it for the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. Great show, I recommend it to you for next year!
The first production run of the preamplifiers will be shipping in November. I am sure someone here can share their thoughts. Mike Lavigne has had the unit for a little time to play with and Hooper, MES and quite a few others have been exposed to it.
Since my opinion would take some criticism from some of the Audiogon users due to me being the importer, I will refrain from sharing how brilliant it sounds :)
Artg: More therapy? :) |
Mikelavigne: As usual, you stated exactly my feelings in a way I might have been better saying. Maybe that is why I am not a reviewer and generally not regarded as someone who is politically correct.:) |
Hooper: I absolutely disagree with you about there being a mismatch with the Wilson Alexandria. The darTZeel drives them incredibly well. Please read:
http://6moons.com/audioreviews/dartzeel/108.html
Mike Malinowski had the same exact amplifier that Jeff Friz used for his review. His experience was totally different, and I know why. Mr. Malinowski states, "Break-in: The 108 needs break-in. Let me rephrase that. It requires a metric ton of break-in. My break-in procedure is very simple. Place product in the equipment chain, listen for a short time, leave it running and leave for days. Come back, listen and repeat the process until the sound stops changing. My unit was not new. It was a review sample forwarded from another industry reviewer. For this piece, it took 2.5 weeks of continuous playing in addition to whatever the previous reviewer had put on it to arrive at sonic stability. It would have been an unforgivable mistake to evaluate this amp before then."
I refered to this in my response to Frank in my previous reply. I do not mean to be reduntant or even reduntant. |
First let me say that even if I conveyed exactly how I felt in my post, it was probably in bad taste on my part and I regret stating it the way I did. Certainly I could have told the story and people would have been able to draw their own conclusions. I guess growing up in NY I tend to avoid sugar coating.
Downunder: Many reviewers like to report on how a product sounds out of the box and describe the changes that take place during break-in. As an audiophile, I like to read about what to expect. In this case it was purely a rush request with a complete understanding upfront that the amplifier ABSOLUTELY needed break-in. The condition of Soundstage doing the review on their time schedule, was that they could not recieve an amplifier that was broken in. There were just none available. They agreed and I sent it. In hind sight, I should have followed my instincts and just held to my original decline of their request.
Ubglub: Yes, I will be showing the darTZeel NHB-18NS Preamplifier with the NHB-108 amplifier in Las Vegas.
Oneobgyn: I did not have any regrets until I read your post. I know you are kind of caught in the middle of this and that is not a fun place to be. Not my intentions! |
Fmpnd: After reading your closing statement, I mean post, I have to say I thought I was the devil and should be tarred and feathered. You obviously, being a lawyer, are extremely thorough and convincing, although in this case, conveniently misleading.
Certainly, after I came to my senses from reading your diatribe, I realized that my thoughts and statements were twisted around quite a bit by you. I stated my thoughts about Marc and Jeff having "strong ties" as pertinent ONLY when I considered whether or not to give the amplifier to them for review. Once I made the mistake to do so, it only became an issue that they did not keep their word to do as they promised in regard to properly breaking in the amplifier and removing DC compensation. Nothing more.
You are making this personal and seem to take the opportunity to do so in every post you can. I do not think that is very professional. Especially as a reviewer who works for the magazine in question.
Your statement:
"It is my opinion that this forum has been polluted by unscrupulous dealers/distributors who muddy the water of a forum designed to be a friendly sharing of ideas and civil debate to one of ulterior motives and libelous vitriol for their own profit."
I don't know Frank, but it comes across to me as you are just trying way too hard to discredit me and those who share my opinions no matter how honestly I, or they, speak, whether industry affiliated or not. |
imisutar@sutarcom.ir: I understand why you feel the way you do, but there is a lot more to the story then FMPND leads everyone to believe. I responded yesterday and for some reason the response never made it to this thread.
If you read my earlier post, you will see that although I still feel the way I do, I do regret wording it the way I did. Please re-read this thread.
Fmpnd: Now regarding the darTZeel owner's manual and the 4 week break-in, the intention was to do just that. Once we were extremely back-ordered, it became obvious that the 4 week factory break-in could not be done and customers would not wait an extra month to recieve their amplifiers. I made everyone who purchased an amp aware of the it up front. No one had a problem with it.
As far as the pricing, I do not know where the 12k comes in, but darTZeel was looking for distribution and held the price as low as they could for as long as possible. Since you work in a bank, I am sure you are better informed than you lead on as to how much the dollar actually took a dive. I am sure if you do a little more detective work, you will find that the newer price corresponds directly with the decreased value of the dollar along with the added cost for the addition of the balanced connections and the DC compensation circuit.
You sure seem to be wasting a lot of your time researching all these things just to point out how evil I am. Don't you have anything better to do? If you continue to target me with these lies and exaggerations, I will certainly let the Audiogon community know the truth about you and your dealings with your so-called friends. If integrity is in question here, it works both ways.
I got a kick out of the previous post. You seemed so proud of yourself as if you had discovered the location of the Arc of the Covenant. |
Oneobgyn: I appreciate that you are somewhat in the middle of all this as you are friendly with all involved. I assure you that the promises I spoke of were made and that it is not true that Jeff used the amplifier for even close to 5 weeks. That is another fabrication on someone's part. There were a little over two weeks of possible use and the review was written.
I can also understand your apprehension, based on your experience, to believe that break-in on the darTZeel is real. Whether it is or not, if a reviewer agrees to the terms and does not comply, and writes a review, isn't that irresponsible when a manufacturer has so much at stake? Let's take the break-in out of the picture and just deal with the agreement that DC compensation was to be removed after a while of listening. Removal of DC compensation adds apporximately 10db of signal to noise ratio. Certainly a responsible reviewer and editor would make sure, prior to the publishing of a review, that they would have every opportunity to hear the amplifier at it's best... unless they had an agenda. Or maybe they was just plain irresponsible and / or negligent.
Steve, I assure you the break-in is absolutely real and verifiable and that everything I have said in this thread is completely true.
Isn't it funny how important it must be to Fmpnd to make me look bad that he would either go through the trouble of reading the owner's manual, which he would have had to download, or someone is feeding him this information and using him as a mouthpiece. Either way, it is extremely humorous.
It is a true shame that the thread was hi-jacked by someone who has a personal gripe with me and taking away from answering questions about a very special product. |
Fmpnd: I just realized that most of the people here that are standing up for you and attacking me have email addresses and no user accounts here. They have one post in their record and that is here in this thread AND they happened to start on Audiogon the day they wrote the thread.
I am wondering who is putting them up to it and who these people actually are.
Smells a little fishy doesn't it Frank? |
Frank Peraino: You say FACTS.
The FACTS are:
1. Jeff Fritz promised the break-in request would be respected. It was not.
2. Jeff Fritz promised to call me following break-in for instructions on how to remove DC compensation for increased sonic performance. He did not.
3. Marc Michelson promised the above requests would be honored. On these promises, I sent the amplifier out to them. Marc did not honor his commitments either.
4. You bully Hooper and he does not want to deal with the confrontation, so he takes the path of least resistance.
5. Frank, out of convenience for your stance, you totally ignore verication that the statements in the owner's manual were overrided by a decision by the manufacturer to amend a policy. There have been numerous reports by those who actually own and use the amplifier that atest to this.
6. You do indeed have an agenda when it comes to me. It is your obvious intention here and in other threads to demean me and the products I represent.
6. Mike Lavigne (properly spelled) was not happy with my "name calling" regarding Jeff and Marc. He stated so earlier in the thread. I acknowledged that early on as well when I stated:
"First let me say that even if I conveyed exactly how I felt in my post, it was probably in bad taste on my part and I regret stating it the way I did. Certainly I could have told the story and people would have been able to draw their own conclusions."
If you read Mike's other posts, he says the same exact things I say but does so in a more "politically correct way. Again, Frank, you are twisting statements around for your convenience.
Frank, your lack of credibility and your motivation is extremely well known. Maybe we should have MES, Hooper, Panorama, Bruce and others "testify" as to their experiences with you.
In closing, Mr. Peraino, may I suggest that you use your time in a more productive manner. I am sure Comerica Bank would prefer your time there being spent working on things they are paying you to do. |
Fiddler: If you re-read my post, I was talking about those who posted here with no user accounts, just email addresses that were created specifically for this thread. It could be one person, or someone putting others up to it. OTOH, it could be totally innocent, but I doubt it. You and I have not agreed in the past and that is fine. I respect your opinion and if you read the threads that contain arguments that I am involved in, it is usually the same band of users that I tire of and just continue to target me instead of staying on point. They generally make it personal and I take the bait. These people generally make accusations, while having had no dealings with me and their motives are not honorable. With these people I am usually a bit too venemous. Early on, I stated my regret for how I said something. That should have been enough. Frank and I have a history that if I made it public, would explain much of what has taken place here.
Krjr: I am certainly sorry you feel the way you do, but the loss would be yours, not just from the standpoint of the loyalty and service that I provide, but you would really be missing out on an extraordinary line of products from darTZeel. |
Kevinkwan: Since you do not know me either and want to make a joke out of this, so be it. That is your choice. Many of the people involved, even those accusing me of things, know the truth. I am 100% honest about all that has occurred. It certainly is easy enough to twist the truth as some have proven here.
BTW, The current President is an alien, isn't he? |
Oneobgyn: You might be confusing an amp that is broken in and had been turned on and after 5 minutes is at 90% vs. an amplifier which has not been broken in at all. Again, this is very definitive and everyone has reported the same experience. If you had ordered one from me, I would have told you about the break-in, just like I did for eveyone else. At that point, I am sure you would completely understand and agree.
BTW... Since I am the one that was very hesitant to recommend you try the LAMM ML2.1's with the Wilson Alexandria, I am glad I was wrong and you are so pleased! |
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Fmpnd: The comment of "utterly ridiculous" is extremely valid since "Soundstage" had an agenda and lied to me. There was a promise to listen to the amplifier after 30 days of hard break-in, which was not even close to being done, as well as removing "DC compensation", which, again was not done. Both Jeff Fritz and Marc Michelson had assured me that these requests would be honored and I was lied to by them. As a matter of fact, Mike Malinowski, of 6 Moons, recieved the amplifier directly from Jeff Fritz and acknowledged in his review that after about two weeks or so of his extensive use of the product that he heard a dramatic change in the amplifier. He happened to use the same speakers as Fritz.
When Marc begged for Soundstage to review the amplifier, I told him I was not interested because of his strong ties to LAMM and Jeff's to Boulder. I should have followed my instincts. Jeff is as slimy as I have ever read. Totally unprofessional and an out and out liar.
As a reviewer, shouldn't you write for something other than that rag? I do not know why you would pick such a magazine. You should be able to write for almost anyone...Soundstage? Please. |
Neilhood: You and I do not know each other and have never had any dealings with each other. You came at me hard, which is your preference to do. The "mother" statment may have been a bit over the top. My mother died of Pancreatic cancer not too long ago and I am sure your intentions may have been different, but that was extremely rude.
It is exactly for the reason you stated that I have a BIG problem with the review. You said:
"There was nothing wrong with the Soundstage review. I just read it and it seemed extremely honest and to the point. Yes, there is an opinion in the review but, that's what this hobbly thrives on. 90% of the posts around here are opinions. Frankly, that particular Soundstage review is one that I would like to seem more of instead of the regular "sugar coated" reviews that we see in some of the other media pubs."
Looks can be decieving. Soundstage had a responsibility to deal with the review in a professional manner which I assure you was disregarded. They gave me their word and did not do as they promised. Is that breach? Was it an out and out lie? Maybe just completely irresponsible on their part. Is that fair to the manufacturer who worked hard to produce such a special product? Certainly if they had done as requested and come to the same conclusion I would have nothing to say. I can tell you that each and every owner of the darTZeel amp reports REAL and long break-in is required and that the changes are dramatic. If you do not believe in break-in, I would offer a challenge to you. Buy a darTZeel amplifier. If it does not change as I state and does not sound as good as those who have heard it aver, return it for a full refund.
Also, "well written" and honest may be two different things. |
