DACs and bass response?

Seems like my choice of words is not skillful. With the COS, the bass, whether electric or acoustic, was very evident. Although it varied from one cd to another, I never had to struggle to hear it. And it was well-focused, not dispersed with too much bloom as I used to hear from my old Jolida tube integrated.  With La Voce, the bass was simply not very present on the majority of cds I played. It seemed to be buried in the mix or recessed. I don't really know how else to describe it. 

@luizfcoimba: this is a demo unto supplied by a dealer who assured me it was well burned in. Overall, it sounds wonderful. . . except for the lack of bass, that is. 

@eniac26, paul79, I'm pretty sure I cannot afford Totaldac, Meitner or DCS but thanks for the suggestions. 

@audioengineer: Steve: I've read many favorable reviews of your dac. Unfortunately it's beyond my financial reach at this time. Thanks for the info and suggestions. 

@shadorne: the reasons I haven't tried the benchmark are 1) complaints that it's a very complex component (not exactly plug in and play) and 2)  that it sounds thin/lean. You seem to be very technically competent, so let's set aside complaint #1 and focus on #2. I'll assume that you haven't found the sound to be wanting in this regard. Would you mind listing the source, amplification and speakers you're using in conjunction with the Benchmark? 

@worldwidewholesales: RE: source, I plan to move to a server. For now, my Jolida cdp is no doubt, less than ideal, but this didn't keep the COS dac from serving up appealing bass. The difference between it and the Aqua were not subtle. What are you using for a server, BTW ? 

@shadorne: your technical understanding is way beyond me. I'm wondering if you could suggest some dacs that "limit (s) master-slave timing adjustments to BELOW the audible range (less than 10 Hz)". I will start paying attention to whether dacs I consider have switched mode power supplies. 

@mikelavigne: I wasn't suggesting that hyper-detailed dacs restrict the bass-- I was wondering whether they, in fact, might have the opposite effect. Sorry if that wasn't clear. 
   
 

@shadorne: RE: euphonic sound. I guess different people would define that term differently. My SS Wells Majestic integrated has no need of "fattening up". I listened to the Metrum Adagio today and it seems a poor match with the Wells-- to much weight/body, but the bass was quite good. I had no idea it would be this challenging to find a dac I like. The Aqua La Voce did everything right, except for the weak bass. Otherwise, I'd be done. The COS has made me very wary of dacs that serve up detail to such a degree that the sense of the "forest" is lost amid the hyper-emphasis of the "trees". Seems to me, a worthwhile musical performance is one in which the whole equals more than the sum of the parts. I don't want to be presented with a field of disembodied parts floating in space, so I tend to view detail as a double-edged sword. 

@lalitk : My source is probably the weakest link in the chain: an aging Jolida JD100 tubed cdp.  To be honest, I've been very confused by the claims and counter-claims in these forums re: the degree to which any transport feeding a dac affects the sound. I've gone back and forth between thinking I should put all my $ into a dac (which I can continue to use with a server once the Jolida breaks down), and dividing my $ between a better transport and a less expensive dac, The latter would mean allocating about $2500 per component. The Heed obelisk is one transport I've considered, as it has an internal buffer. Of course, the PS audio transports do as well. 

@worldwide wholesales: thanks for the detailed response. 

@shadorne: Well, my cdp has a tubed output and I was concerned that using a separate dac and bypassing the tubes might be a problem, but so far, with the 3 dacs I've tried, it hasn't been an issue. The SS  Majestic integrated provides plenty of "tube-like" warmth. In fact, coupled with the Metrum Adagio, it seems like too much weight/thickness. I know these are not audiophile terms-- sorry for my ignorance. Darko described the Aqua La Voce as "cool" but it sounded terrific in my system, except that I found its bass response severely lacking. 

@georgehifi: forgive my ignorance, but would installing such a cap likely void warrantee? Also, is this something I could purchase from say, parts conneXion?  Briefly, what is involved in installation? Thanks. 

BTW, I swapped out power cord and coax cable for another brand and it substantially helped the La Voce's bass. Disappointingly, swapping out cables did nothing to improve the muddiness of the Adagio in my system. There must be a profound lack of synergy. It's going back. 

@georgehifi : yeah; I am not at all mechanically minded, so what you you offer is, indeed, "sound advice"!  Thanks for the pic. 

@kalai: Point taken!  

I ordered La Voce yesterday. This is my first DAC, so I’m no doubt a good deal less sophisticated than many who’ve posted on this thread in my capacity to assess this type of component, but it seems to do a good job occupying a middle ground. It’s not what I would consider overly analytic but provides a much detail as I want to hear. At the same time, it’s what I would call "musical" (a term reviled by some, but each to his/her own) without straying into what I would regard as tube-like euphonics. PRaT is very important to me and La Dolce serves up a generous helping. The other two DACs I auditioned were, by contrast, to my ears, in my system, quite extreme. The COS was unnaturally detailed while the Metrum’s cholesterol count was off the scale. In the end, hearing presentations at these extreme ends of the scale proved useful in evaluating the Aqua. BTW, I found Alex at Alma Music and Audio in San Diego (the sole CA Aqua dealer) to be terrific. I hope this doesn’t violate any thread rules. Thanks to all who offered suggestions and warm wishes for a happy holiday season!

@georgehifi: And with the right cables, I discovered it had been there, all along!  

@charles1dad: I tried swapping out the digital cable, then the power cable. At first, I thought they were both contributing to the improved bass. After posting the above message, I listened further and and determined that the replacement power cord was actually rolling off highs, resulting in an overall "darker" tonality. It was also diminishing the overall sense of organization. The latter may not be an audiophile term. What I mean is that, with the replacement power cord, simultaneously overdubbed guitar parts, for example did not sound as if they were properly synced. Instead, there was a sense of chaos. Replacing the original power cord yield a sound I preferred. Nevertheless, I’m going to try still another digital cable.
as this is my first DAC, I have no previous experience with digital cables
and it seems prudent to explore a little further.

@gdhl: With all due respect, the difference I heard in the bass presentation as a result of changing digital cables was not "infinitesimal". 
I was about to give up on La Voce and continue my search. Swapping out the cable changed my mind. I bought La Voce. My experiments with cables has been varied-- some indeed seem to be merely "different".
In other cases, cables have provoked a strong appeal or strong distaste.  

@goofyfoot: I wish you luck in getting a majority of audiophiles to agree on a definition of "musicality"! ;o) As a guitar player, I'm familiar enough with music theory but I have to say it's never figured in any way into my gear selection. However, I'd love to hear more about the connection you perceive between the two. As for reading about aesthetics, isn't reading a 

@goofyfoot: I think we can all agree that what's important is that each listener discover what approach is most rewarding for him/her. 

@gdhal: Thanks for the Joni link. I only got to see her once, in Santa Barbara. That show, with Jaco, Michael Brecker, et al, was made into the album/dvd "Shadows and Light". Santa Barbara, in the 70's/early 80's was an ongoing, overflowing fountain of live music. A few others I attended: Bill Evans (the piano player-- not the sax player), RTF, the Dead (2/27/77), Oregon, Leo Kotke, Pat Metheny, Bonnie Raitt, Santana, Jean Luc Ponty, Albert Collins, Les McCann, Brain Auger, Keith Jarrett, Emmy Lou Harris, BB King, Ravi Shankar, Otis Rush, Ustadd Allauddin Khan. . . those were the days. . . and tickets were so affordable!  Sorry for straying away from the topic of gear. A very Merry Christmas to all !  

Final post: My desire for better bass has been more than amply satisfied.
The Aqua La Voce, it turns out, has a prodigious bass capacity! In fact, I’m frequently astonished by the bass my monitors are delivering, now.

In my system, there were two factors that, until corrected, significantly inhibited what La Voce was capable of delivering: 1) a poorly matched coax cable and 2) jitter from the Jolida cdp that serves as a transport.

As an experiment, I ordered Steve Nugent’s coax cable and his Synchro-mesh re-clocker, not knowing what to expect, but knowing I could return them. Well, they made a very significant difference.

Everyone wants something different from their system. I wanted more focused reproduction of acoustic and electric bass. Once the above problems were addressed, I got that, in spades. Other improvements: greater resolution across the board that is not at all analytical (!), more convincing and colorful instrumental timbres, greater dimensionality/separation to/between instruments (without losing the sense of overall coherence), a greater sense of ease, blacker back-grounds and a much improved sense that the musicians are "in the room" with me.

Disclosure: with the re-clocker in place, my system is somewhat darker sounding, but I personally don’t mind this. I’ve found that the $150 Schiit Loki Mini is sufficient to address any occasional imbalances in this regard. I cannot say whether this is due to the Synchro-mesh itself or some other issue. Needless to say, YMMV.

Bottom line: this has been quite a powerful upgrade. My suggestion to anyone looking to spend $3000 or more on a "musical" DAC: audition La Voce !

As for an Aqua La Voce dealer, I most heartily recommend Alex Siufy at Alma Music and Audio in San Diego.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

Shadorne: Thanks! This was my first standalone DAC, so I had no previous experience to rely upon-- only what I read online or heard for myself. I frankly didn't know what such a component might contribute to my system.

There are certainly more DACs that I could've demo'd, but as it was, I ended up spending about $500 to ship 3 DACs back and forth, which is not an inconsequential sum in my case. 

It helped that the two others I tried out were, in my system, quite extreme in their presentation; one starkly analytical and the other overly weighty  and congested.  To be fair, it's possible that I could've discovered how to make either of them sound good, but due to their pricing, I couldn't have afforded to do much in that regard. La Voce's price ($3000) gave me the leeway to afford the Empirical gear, which made all the difference. 

How I ended up choosing to demo La Voce after the Metrum and COS DACs, is too convoluted a path for me to remember, let alone describe, but I'm sure glad I did!

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. 

PS: I can report that the "dark" tonality I noticed in the system was solely due to the cheap Best Buy cable linking transport and re-clocker. As soon as I replaced it with a Blue Jeans coax, a veil lifted and the music immediately became noticeably cleaner and punchier.