DAC/w Volume control + Power amp or DAC + Integrated?

George hifi makes a lot of sense with what he keeps bringing up that as long as you can run the DACs volume high enough to prevent bit stripping the only thing a preamp can do is degrade the signal.

Not just me saying it, but in so many words also Nelson Pass, if you to use a passive pre to pre-set the level, if the digital volume is too low and "bit stripping", then it can be used in the top 1/3rd if you pre-set the level with the passive pre.

Nelson Pass: On Passive preamps
"What could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive parts. No feedback, no worrying about what type of capacitors – just musical perfection.

And yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the volume control up compared to an active preamp."

Cheers George

With the high gain amp I use my own, but any 10kohm one will do Schiit, Dact, Alps, Black Beauty, Blue Velvet, etc etc.

Cheers George 

Georgehifi. Are you using Schiit Sys with your MSB DAC ?

No at the moment, as my MSB dac’s volume is close to full up for the loudest I need, direct into these NC500 amps (no Buffer used).
But I do use a passive as a volume preset with different amps I have, which have higher gain.

Cheers George

czar2000 OP13 posts03-02-2021 10:16amLooks like an Integrated amp is the answer.
I will need more money, Or get the less expensive amp.

Spend the same money on just a power amp, and you'll get a much better amp for the same price.
Feed it from the Schiit Sys.
And choose one of the 3 fixed output voltages of your Qutest.

Result will be bliss compered to an integrated. 

Cheers George  

George
I almost always listen low to moderate volume.
I guess inserting the SYS between QUTEST and UL Poweramp is the best, since there is no audible compromise?

The QUTEST has 3 output voltages to choose from 3v 2v 1v choose the one that gives you the loudest you’ll ever listen to, with the volume control of the Schiit Sys at around 3/4 of full up

Cheers George

Built in volume control affects sound quality of the DAC?

No they are better, if not used too low down.

I use an MSB discrete dac with volume direct into monoblock poweramps, and the sound has never been better.
But if you have to use the dacs volume below 2/3rd because it’s too loud, you will start to slowly loose resolution (bit strip) depending on how low you go.

The answer to fix this problem insert a $49 Schiit Sys passive between the dac and poweramp/s and preset the volume on it. so then you can use the dac’s volume above 2/3rd
https://www.schiit.com/products/sys

This way you’ll get better poweramp/s for the same money as an integrated and also save big on not having a preamp if you were going separates.

Then some good dac manufacturers like Wadia have thought about everything so you don’t need the Schiit Sys, in using a volume control in dacs only up high for maximum sound quality in all systems, as they have gain links inside so you match it to your system gain and use the volume only in the top 1/3rd of full up, as you can see from the setup instructions when you get it. (Read the paragraph that starts "Premium sonic performance is achieved")
https://ibb.co/JQJMx8S

Cheers George