DAC Question: Delta-Sigma vs R2R

@big_greg I largely agree with everything but would qualify the second part of your first sentence

most likely due to lack of exposure to better sounding gear or convincing themselves that they can get the "best" at a fraction of the real cost of entry.

Lets forget this notion of *best* for the moment.  Yes, you wisely put that word in apostrophes too.

What is surprising is that is that in fact some exceptionally good DACs are indeed available for the budget minded. @lanx0003 mentioned a couple - the Topping and especially the SMSL. A few hundred bucks new.

The R2Rs that I and others have mentioned are perhaps 5 to 10 (how long is a piece of string? "the cost of entry is more than an order of magnitude more than my budget allows" yeah.) times the price of an exceptional sigma delta DAC..

For the well known declining incremental sound quality, and even that may be psycho acoustic at the levels we are talking about.. Depending on the supplied aliasing filter chosen, frequency curves are generally pencil flat in the audible range. 

Barely perceptible noise floor given that THD and noise is usually below audible hearing at < -120db, sometimes < -140db. Blackness.

Any sound signature is possibly the presence of audible harmonics slipping through (hello R2R!). Other things like connections (people who use USB sometimes have questions here, for example) and other hardware stuff, I dunno.

DACs only purpose is to convert the digital signal into an analogue form with as little distortion, noise, jitter and other nasty artifacts as possible. A few other things, but you get the idea.

R2R and Sigma Delta take quite different approaches to doing this. Quite different technologies.

R2R DACs do not do this as well as SD DACs. R2R DACs such as those by Denefrips and Holo Audi can come very close to what most robust (and recent - technology has improved in just the last couple years or so) SD DACs can easily achieve.

Now, R2R DACs do convey perhaps a slightly more lush/euphonic (whatever, get out the thesaurus) presence than SD.

The reasons to me are unclear, however one reason that I a familiar with is that R2R DACs introduce 2nd and 3rd harmonics through into the signal. Perhaps google is your friend for an explanation of harmonics.

These are known as non-linear distortions. These can be very pleasant to the ear, and tube amps produce them (harmonics) in abundance. Many here enjoy tube amps, myself included. {edit - and now I see, yourself also.  Swell}

My own opinion is that should you wish to introduce such harmonics the best place to do so is at the pre-amp or amp level.

Get the source signal as "correct" as possible with a SD DAC costing no more than a few hundred bucks, and then decide how to play with or customize the signal that the DAC spits out.

{I see Schiit has been recommended.  If that is a brand you trust, I'd suggest Schiit Modius at $200 - it is splendid and you won't be disappointed.  Jason from Schiit would agree - he has said that he can't tell the difference between DACs after a few beers, which, I may note, is because they are so good these days and is probably true even before having a few beers}

@alvinnir2 While an equalizer is not what I was specifically referring to when I was saying that its best to customize the signal only after it has left the DAC, introducing something as you suggest is another good example.

Rather than trying to get a DAC that is a jack of all trades and master of none, kinda thing.

[and while I am here, I will regret forever writing "you won't be disappointed" in my previous post but I can't edit them out, grrrr ]

Just a slight digression....

@buddyboy1 the Topping e30 for the same price is an excellent valuefor a DAC.

I can confirm that about the Topping E30.

I recently made my Rega Saturn CD player the transport for such a one.

It is the only thing I changed (plus adding the necessary el-cheapo no brand 75ohm digital coax cable).

I dare not mention anything about any superlative changes in what I hear or I may lose any shadow of credibility that I may or may not have with the multi thousand dollar boys and girls.

@larsman why you would think a new cheap $300 DAC would be better than a Chord Hugo, for example, which is 5 years old or so? 

I'll bite.  I would challenge anyone to listen to a $440 SMSL M500 MkII DAC (also a headphone amp) and swear that the Chord Hugo not only sounds better but is the better DAC. 

It may be a close call, of course, because the Chord Hugo was a tremendous bit of kit in its time at what, $3,000?

@larsman Personally, I would find both of those DAC’s on the dry side for my tastes

This is so true. Hence, should you be able to wade through my rant above, I do suggest that it might be an option to add something in the pre-amp or amp.

Like tubes.

SS? er, no, it’d be like walking into a stainless steel bathroom to have a cold shower.

edit - no, that's not fair of me.  There are plenty SS which are warm.  In fact I often enjoy my Sansui au-555A from 1974 which was given to me by my grandchildren at the time when I retired.

@larsman both of those components are essentially colorless; they add no warmth but they are not dry and clinical - they do a great job of delivering the source, so the main effect on my sound is the DAC, and that's where I'm using the Holo May R2R DAC. 

I have deliberately adopted an opposite approach as I've mentioned.  In my weaker moments I lust after an AGD Audion (class D) amp, which I suspect might be a bit humourless despite some people comparing them favourably to SET amps. This is bad - I do not like the SET amp signature sound.

Some distortion would be needed and should I be in a pleasant mood for a change it would be a toss up between a Holo May KTE or a Denafrips Terminator.  The folk at Holo are disciples of certain funky marketing gimmicks which does not impress me.

@tennisdoc56 I have looked at the Audio GD R7 (R2R) and it is similar to the Soekris DAC2541 (R2R) in that they both employ FPGA technology.

Both are very good of course but the presence of FPGA introduces some issues which I’d prefer to avoid. That’s just me, of course, and FPGA is slightly off topic.

[The Soekris DAC 1101 had FPGA.  So did the model that replaced it, 1321.  Then 1421.  Then 1521. Now 2541. 

So much for simply just having to upgrade the program in the FPGA chip.

And that is all I have to say about that]