Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

dspringham  Your post is scarily prescient regarding my own curiosity over pairing a Decware SET with the Nens fronted by the L2iSE as pre. In fact, I just recently queried a new Cube Audio dealer in California who says he also represents Decware (whatever that means since they sell direct) about whether he had heard the 25th Anniversary Zen Triode with the Nens.  He hadn't but had heard from others it was a killer combo--as I suspected and you just confirmed.  Interesting that you find the bass much improved, but that probably has to do with higher output impedance of the VR L2iSE, which for what it's worth, I now prefer with the Takatsuki 300bs having run both the Elrogs and the Linlai 2A3 previously.  Congrats on your set up and new purchase of the Nenuphars.  I assume you are using the 8ohm speaker taps on the Super Zen.  Now all you have to do to utterly satisfy my musings is to try two of those Decware wonders!

dspringham  Glad making the blind leap to the Nenuphars worked out.  I think many on this thread had to do the same, as did I.

The best option for matching the Decware triode SETs using the VR L2iSE as DHT pre is not exactly clear to me.  Since I prefer the balanced output,  two apparent options are A) the SE84UFO25 with the 
SBIT balanced to single end converter or B) a pair of the SE84UFO2 with XLR inputs and the Anniversary upgrades.  I have an email into Steve to
see which might be preferable.  And yes re lead time I took a gander at his build list and it is over 400 orders long!

splunders  I listen to Classical, Jazz, world music and a lot of contemporary categories including pop (but not including heavy metal, etc.).  The Nens have outperformed all previous speakers by a margin, including Shindo Petite Latours, Audio Physic Codex,Martin Logan Expression 13L and Alumine 3s.  The quality that puts them above this formidable group?  Simpy put: how alive and natural they sound.  All of this to my ears of course.  I don't feel like they favor any genre, but I do think one of their strengths is reproducing live recordings.  They are just uncanny at this, putting you in the venue with the orchestra, jazz group, or rock band, etc.  If forced to name a weakness I would say that the quality of the bass, although always solid and robust, will vary depending on amp used.  I will be testing an external woofer soon, with and without a bypass filter.  This is just to satisfy my constant audio curiosity because I can happily live with the bass I hear using my VR L2iSE.

rwpollock I am happily using Shunyata Alpha v2 speaker cables.

The Case for Base

Over the past few weeks I've been auditioning a KEF KC62 subwoofer with my Nenuphars.  I did this not because I'm a base head or because I felt the Nens lacking down there, but simply out of curiosity (and the positive feedback of others who have added a sub or two) and the fact that KEF offers a 30 day return.

But, spoiler alert, I won't be returning this remarkable little subwoofer.  I've incorporated it to have such an effect that I have to admit I had no idea what I was missing.  And it's not slam pounding my chest at 95 db but the overall added musicality, a rich foundation which, when the sub is off, makes the Nens sound unbalanced, almost thin (I know, hard to believe, but that is the impression when one is a/b-ing).  To use a b&w photographic metaphor, I was missing the dark shades of grey through to pure black with the Nens by themselves.  There is now a foundation to the music that was meant to be there and was missing.  The real test for me were simple acoustic recordings with stand up base (read Charlie Haden with anybody) and one or two other instruments.  With the KEF sub dialed in properly, bringing the base forward in a tuneful yet solid way, these recordings had more presence, involvement and reality.  As if their true balance was restored.  And of course the same held true if not even more so for music with bigger base, rock and orchestral, etc.    

Obviously I'm a new comer to the sub party and there are no doubt better applications than adding one ten inch sub woofer, but my room is fairly small and this tuneful gem is doing the job to my great delight.  BTW I did the sub "crawl" thing to find the best location, which oddly turned out to be right next to my listening chair. I use the 60db crossover and not quite half volume.  No muddying of mid bass or any other downside I can hear.  Fun stuff. Brings the Nens to another level of enjoyment.

BTW I should make clear that my previous post regarding sub woofing the Nens is not meant to be a blanket recommendation to do same.  My set up puts the speakers far from corners, sidewalls and front wall (to emphasize breadth and depth of soundstage) and my ceiling height is over 20'.  So there is little ambient base reinforcement which accounts for the KEF KC62 making a more positive impact than it might in another set up.  And I meant 60Hz not 60db for crossover.

kw6 The KEF KC62 has "two 6.5 inch force cancelling drive units powered by 1,000W RMS of specially designed Class D amplification"--so not even 8 inch.

As to your questions about things I can hear, yes in spades to all but that was before the sub was added.  Of course the sub made the bass drum in a drum kit sound deeper and more three dimensional.  In fact, one of the surprising side effects of a well integrated sub, is, as abd1 mentioned, to add depth to the soundstage.  And I certainly hear that despite using only one sub.  Although I don't hear the muddiness that dspringham did, I thought about running the output signal through the crossover in the sub to eliminate the amp sending low frequency info to the speakers as strongly recommended by Srajan--which in theory would be cleaner, eliminating overlap.  But I'm pretty sure you have to have two subs to maintain the stereo effect to do that.  

david_ten Yes the Townshend platforms are still under the Nens.  Sometime ago I meant to take them out to make sure they were beneficial but things were sounding so good I never did.  However, since experiencing the performance boost with the small sub, it has occurred to me the platforms might be impeding bass response.  So over the next 48 hrs I'll take them off the platforms and see what happens.  There is a lively discussion of the Townshend platforms under speakers in another thread but if one tried to create a bottom line from the melee it would be that their benefit is speaker and room dependent.  I'll report back.

kw6 The Nenuphar's have ten inch drivers.  And those drivers deliver a ton of top end air.  Have you read reviews at 6 Moons, Stereo Times and avshowrooms among others?  They might help overcome your concerns about a single wideband driver.  

David--I have spent most of the day listening to my Nens with and without the Townshend speaker platforms.  Here are my notes:

With platforms:
Greater sense of ambient space, definitely more soundstage depth and air.  
Highs a little rolled off and/or sweeter
greater presence

Without platforms
Better instrument location and definition
Bass tighter and less need of sub woofer (turned it down but it still added a lot)
Highs a little harder
Sounds more like hifi than the sense of "being there" with the platforms

Overall impression: Sounds more exciting with platforms, more accurate without

I can see how some would prefer the "without" list of attributes and some the "with" list.  It does seem that the platforms are additive or colored.  (Which surprises me because their technological seems to be based on being subtractive, reducing smearing and distortion.)  I prefer them but I can definitely see how others might prefer the cleaner more accurate sound without.  If I put a SET tube amp in front of the Nens, that might change.

 

david_ten I was curious about the platforms and since my last iteration was with the speakers on their spikes I've done a little experimenting.  I found that I much prefer the Stillpoints Ultra SS in place of the front spikes!  I'm not sure if I like them better than the platforms, but all this has made me realize that driver height makes a big difference with the Nens.  Off the platforms the middle of the driver, dare I say tweeter?, is pretty much at ear height.  On the platforms they are almost 3" higher.  That alone, regardless of what the platform technology is doing, is going to impact SQ.  

david_ten  No I haven't tried raising my listening position--not really practical.  Trying to figure out now whether I like center of driver at ear level or not...

I emailed Jon at Refined Audio and he said that the driver upgrade would require sending him original drivers and his replacing “the cones” for a price of “roughly $1500”.  I think this is a fair deal from Cube Audio. 

Assuming of course the new drivers are an easily discernible upgrade. 

Yes, David, he said 1.5 to 2 weeks and that he would post about the whole process on his website once he knew more.

This is going to present another possible upgrade opportunity: to replace hook up wire while driver is being upgraded.  Wire is apparently connected to drivers via banana plugs which should make replacement a little easier.  But of course how would one determine how much of the upgrade was due to new hookup wire or new "cones"?  At any rate I'm holding my horses until Srajan weighs in.  Also, sent him an email to remind him there are a bunch of us Nen owners eagerly awaiting his verdict on the new drivers and thanking him for his review of the IFI pro iDSD Signature which arrives today for a 60 day home trial via Music Direct.  

The iFi Pro iDSD Signature would be for a second system although I wouldn’t be surprised if it could hold its own against my Totaldac d-1 dual. We’ll see.

All reviewers I know of have "self imposed and rationalized limitations" so you have to pick and choose. Srajan is one of three reviewers I’ve trusted enough to buy on their recommendation and so far I have not been disappointed. The other was Jack Roberts when he was writing for Dagogo. And the third was Art Dudley who turned me onto Shindo gear. I can see how all three of those reviewers share similar self imposed and rationalized limitations.

mozartfan  Can't be 100% sure unless you audition them obviously, which I can't.  But, as I've intimated, I would trust Srajan's recommendation.

Jon is estimating turn around time.  I don't think he's done an upgrade yet.  He's a very straight up person/distributor, so I think once he knows what the turn around will be, he'll be transparent in letting us know.  Will obviously have a lot to do with volume.

As for Judge Judy, not sure what you're alluding to.  That I do the upgrade and am so unhappy I sue distributor/manufacturer and end up on Judge Judy to get my $1500 back plus original drivers?  Absolutely, she would be my first choice for resolution... 

toetapaudio  Yes, I will post impressions in a separate thread.  Have about 6 hours on it right now.  There are so many filters and combinations that I've hardly scratched the surface.  First raw impression:  GIANT KILLER, beware.

@cal3713 Thanks. I haven’t put up a thread about my DAC search and probably won’t because it was less than comprehensive. Meaning I auditioned a number of DACs--Aqua, Denafrips, Lampizator, to name a few--that were quite a bit less expensive than the MPD 8. Once I heard it, I knew I didn’t have to look any further. I haven’t touched vinyl since I got it.

I have taken great pleasure in building a system around the Nenuphars, first concentrating, like most new owners, on optimal pairings of pre amp and amp--optimal to my taste of course.  I never thought I'd be one to indulge more than one "taste" but I find myself with a "stable" of three units that I use singly or in combination.  I change them out periodically and enjoy their individual strengths. They are the Vinnie Rossie L2iSE, the Enleum 23R and the Decware Zen Triode Anniversary Edition.  But all along I knew once I had the power and pre questions answered, I would next have to address my digital front end.  For years I've been listening to the very musical Totaldac D-1 Dual.  Despite my enjoyment I knew it was not the last word on detail, bass, imaging and tonal accuracy.  A long search and many auditions has ended up with my replacing it with a Playback Designs MPD 8 Dream DAC.  After 500 hours of break in I can report extreme satisfaction, beyond in fact anything I was anticipating.  The Nenuphars soak up every iota of this upgrade, sounding like new and better speakers in every way.  They keep revealing themselves as true transducers of what goes before them. The magic they now create with the MPD 8 makes each recording unique, hearing the essence of music like I've never heard it before. 

@charles1dad Thank you.

@david_ten  Thank you, as well, and what a clean and striking set up you've put together.  As Charles mentions, it looks like your Nens have room to throw an enveloping wall of sound with great depth.  I'm always amazed at the speakers' ability to do this, sound stage like dipole electrostatics, creating a boxless, free floating sound, further enhanced now by my new DAC which renders some recordings--Beck's Morning for instance--in virtual surround sound.  My speakers are closer to the front wall than yours, so I installed half round diffusers which help with image focus but not as much with depth as I was hoping.  Maybe quadratic diffusors help create depth better?  (Or jellyfish?)  Anyway, congrats to you on a great set up.

Speaking of electrostatics, a audiophile friend is bringing over the new Magnepan LRS+ (when he gets them) in a shoot out against the Nens.  He thinks they'll compete despite the 15X difference in price.  Vegas is working up the odds on that right now.  The speakers I would really like to hear against the Nenuphars are the Fleetwood Deville SQ Speakers made by OMA.  Love to hear if anyone has impressions of them vs the Nens.  From what I read they have a lot in common despite being very different designs.

@dspringham Hi Dave.  Yes, the DAC2 module for the VR L2iSE was one of the first I compared to my Totaldac D-1 Dual.  I found it to be surprisingly close in sound (especially for the $$--the Totaldac being about twice as much), but the Totaldac was noticeably more open and alive.  They're are some other notes I have on the comparison if you want to PM me.

@toetapaudio The powered version?  The Reserva version?

Here's Steve Huff's review of the Enleum 23R.  You have to appreciate his enthusiasm especially if you've heard this imp of an amp drive the Nenuphars.  Everything he says applies.  

 

david_ten  LOL. You've got my number.  If I could audition them in my room for 14 days, then yes, they might be in my future.  But I suffer not with the Nens and I have a feeling the two speakers have a lot in common despite vastly different technologies. 

@david_ten  Thanks, David!

It has been a pleasure and an education participating in this thread. Learned a bunch that helped me appreciate not only my Nenuphars but this hobby.

I’ve moved on from the Nenuphars to the Boressen Z2 Cryo edition speakers. A leap forward in everything I love about the Nens (and more), but at a cost of $10K plus. I’ll be posting a review of the Z2’s as a separate thread in the next month or so.

A pampered pair of white Nenuphar V1s will be going up on ’Gon shortly.