I will apologize in advance for the length of this, but the questions and issues are complex and cannot be addressed easily. I am also going to publicly apologize to CD318 as my remarks to him last night were out of line, and I regretted them almost as soon as I hit submit. Questions in a public forum need to always be welcome and never discouraged. This is mainly a response to a few individuals I have been debating with, so if you have no interest in reading it, please ignore it.
At some level, I get the freedom issue. In the US, we have a long history of well defined human rights that are guaranteed to us as individuals. Free speech, religious choice, assembly, voting rights, bearing arms, etc. are all guaranteed to us by the Constitution, and cannot be taken away. We also enjoy a multitude of undefined additional freedoms every single day. Freedom to travel, what to wear, what to eat for breakfast, what kind of music to enjoy. There are limits here though. I have to wear shoes and a shirt to enter almost any public business, I cannot play my music so loud that I create a public nuisance. And maybe someday, the government will mandate that all corn production go into the production of ethanol fuel, so maybe I will not be able to have corn flakes for breakfast.
Freedom is discussed every day by some, and often not even given a second thought by most. I contend that there are some freedoms that really matter, and some that matter not so much. Take away my right to vote, and I will be marching in the street. Take away my corn flakes by government mandate, and I will happily switch to raisin bran.
Several times a week we see cell phone footage of an airline passenger getting into a fist fight with a flight attendant who asks the traveler to put on a mask. I am going to contend that mandates for mask wearing, social distancing, a reduced number of patrons in a restaurant or a bar are not the draconian infringements that some people claim, but well intentioned directives.
The reduction or loss of business for restaurants, bars and mass attendance businesses was a serious side effect of the pandemic, and though the government tried to help with temporary monetary assistance programs for individuals and small businesses, all is not well. Jobs were lost that will likely not come back. Many/ most urban office buildings bars and restaurants still do not have full occupancy and many are still suffering. These businesses would have suffered an extreme loss of customer base in any event due to the pandemic itself. Personally, I would not have gone into a bar, restaurant, gym or concert last year at this time even if they were open.
There is indirect evidence that these mandates were incredibly successful at limiting the speed of spread of Covid-19. It cannot be proven what the numbers of infections would have been without mandated behavior limits, but anecdotally, last season due to the mandates in place, the US cases of influenza resulting in death were reduced from about 30,000 during the 2019/20 flu season to just 646 during the 2020/21 flu season an incredible decrease of 98%. It is easy to argue that without the limits on our (lesser) freedoms, at least hundreds of thousands of additional lives in the US would have been lost due to uncontrolled spread of Covid-19. The governments of most of the industrialized countries of the world made similar calculated decisions to limit some freedoms in order to save lives. Exceedingly difficult decisions to make.
Sweden was mentioned as an example of a successful alternative. The numbers show that Sweden experienced a similar sharp economic downturn during 2020 with their GDP declined 2.8%, compared to declines of 2.8%, 2.7%, and 0.8% for their most comparable neighboring countries, Finland, Denmark, and Norway respectively (Nordicstatistics.org), each of which had taken some lockdown measures. According to worldometers , the death rates per 100K in Sweden are about 3 fold to 5 fold higher and infection rates are also 2 to 3 fold higher than their Scandanavian counterparts. Was staying mostly open really worth the cost?
You have more confidence in social behavior than I do. I think that for the most part, people are predominantly ill-informed about public health matters and when given a choice many would make selfish decisions in their own best interests that would have adverse effects on everyone else. Therefore, we have laws governing our behavior. It might be desirable to some to drive 130MPH, and to ignore stop signs. Governments enact rules and laws to protect commerce, personal property, and other people’s rights to travel safely. I don’t think that anyone really takes issue with those laws.
Ah, but enforced vaccination is different people say. I remember requirements for vaccinations for measles, mumps, polio, and probably others that I do not recall, in order to attend grade school. Vaccinations have been required for some international travel for many years. I had to receive a Hepatitis B vaccination in order to keep my job. Is Covid-19 vaccination any different? Perhaps if I fear getting Covid, I should get myself vaccinated, mask up, stay home, and let other individuals be free do as they please. Maybe, also I need to drive a halftrack, and change my work and shopping hours to let others drive 130MPH and ignore stop signs if they feel like it.
In any case, the Covid vaccine is not actually forced into peoples arms. You are given a choice to get vaccinated or submit to weekly testing, or to get vaccinated or lose your job, or to get vaccinated or not be allowed to travel. Harsh rules, no question, but for the safety of society, maybe a reasonable approach.
I am not so sure that there are reasonable, effective, affordable treatment options. Chloroquine, and Ivermectin have been touted as treatment options, but when tested rigorously, they have come up short. Remdesivir shows promise, but has a typical treatment cost of over $3,000 and is useful only after you have been infected. Same story with convalescent plasma which has recently been shown to not be as effective as hoped. Monoclonal antibody treatment seems to be effective but comes with a price tag exceeding $2000 per infusion, and again only an option after you have been infected and likely have been publicly contagious for days.
I know there are R & D costs, distribution costs, etc associated with vaccine production, but as a consumer, receiving the vaccinations have cost me exactly $0. They are pre-emptive, work well, and have been shown to be safe in the arms of billions of people throughout the world.
