Could Class D really be that good?

grk,

Thanks for that link.  Probably? using the Orchard GaN modules after the tube in the smaller amp.  $3600-$4000 is a nice price range.  You can get a tube front end on the high powered Purifi from VTV for about $3000.  Lots of cool stuff out there.  The 300 B version has no price yet.......probably $5K or more.

Fosi V3 with a ton of mods is the best amp using a DAC that I have ever heard......and that includes my own wild dual mono Class A amps.  Please see the bottom of this page for details and a pic. 

http://tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/DIY_Bi-amped_super_speaker.html

My new open baffle speakers should be up and running next week.....check back for more info.....this is fun!

Yes, the amount of distortion and its spectrum has some correlation to sound. However, it is not the major or only thing that makes and amp SOUND the way it does. You can give me 3 pairs of Atmasphere amps and I will change some of the parts in one to really bad sounding parts.....leave one of them stock and in the 3rd one I will change a bunch of parts and execution that I know will make the sound better. They will still all measure the same. Ralph or anyone would be able to pick them apart..........even on a double blind test.

All Hypex amps sound different from each orther. All Purifi amps sound different from each other. Please read the review on 10 Audio on the NAD Purifi based amp and then the review he did a little later on my modified VTV Purifi amp......way different and better sound. All parts and execution change the sound. I mod all these amps so I know that they all sound good stock.....but way, way better with mods. Yes, some do not believe it....they only believe in measurements. My mods do not change measurements.....they change the way an amp sounds.

I have been modding and manufacturing gear since the 1970s.....Everyone likes what I do......everyone (I mean, those that listen). If you change the coupling cap in a tubed piece of gear.....or brand of tube....or brand of resistor.....you change the sound.....but you do not change how it measures (obviously, the tubes must have the same gain). All op amps have a sound. Many amps out there right now (all the Fosi and Ayima amps,etc.) with sockets in them so you can "opamp roll". All the various op amps measure such low distortion that they do not change the measurement of the amp......but everyone can hear the difference in sound between the different op amps. This is why the best versions of Purifi and Hypex use discrete op amps and super low noise regulators (because they sound better). All the discrete opamps have a sound, as well. VTV sells various op amps for those that like different flavors of sound. I modify the Sparko labs Pro opamps to give better sound (one of my favorites, so far, along with the LKS discrete op amps). Warren at VTV sells various amps and he slightly prefers the Purifi (and especially the high powered Purifi) modules to the Nilai and NCX500 that he sells. He is a tube guy so he really likes the tube buffer in front of the Purifi module. Listening to a very modded VTV Purifi amp as I type.....Wow, what a great sound.

I am probably going to have a tour with a stereo dual mono high powered modded VTV Purifi amp soon. This way, this less than $3K (delivered including mods) amp can be compared to Atmasphere, Orchard, Hypex, Nilai and others. This dual mono stereo amp will do 222 watts into 8 ohms, 436 watts into 4 ohms and 750 watts into 2 ohms. I will warrantee the modded amp for 2 years. Fun stuff. Low distortion class D modules with serious tweaks equals serious goosebump factor.

All op amps have an intrinsic sound.....and how you know this is to listen. There is no monolythic integrated circuit IC (that I know of) that sounds as good as a really great discrete circuit. This is from testing (and designing and making my own) op amps for 25 years. If you have an integrated circuit op amp......you need to upgrade it. So, which discrete op amp sounds the best?......I personally like the LKS and the modified Sparko Labs 2590 the best. When I was modding Oppo 205s I changed the stock 4562 to Sparko 3601 but then went to the LKS (I had modded the LKS DAC so I knew those op amps were probably really great). When I saw them for sale on line I emailed LKS and they sold some of them directly to me. They were much better than the 3601s....Of course, I removed the connectors on the opamps and soldered my own 6n copper leads to the op amp.

I find the Weiss very detailed but lacking depth and musicality. The Sonic Imagrery, and New Class D too transistory sounding. I have not listened to the latest Burson or the Staccato, and I am sure there are others that might be better.

Adding a tube buffer will ADD tube sound. That is what it is for. It will not measure as good, as no tube has the low noise of a great op amp. The tube buffer in the VTV has an op amp after the tube.....so it really is just adding tube sound. Warren at VTV loves how it sounds. It is his reference. He uses the stock 2950 as the op amp on that board. Warren has never heard any of my mods (to the op amp or to his amps). If you are buying the tube buffer it is because you want tube sound....not for its measurements. Tubes add liquidity, space and palpability.....they make for a more "musical" sound. I personally think that if you want a tube in your system.....that it be only one. Too much tube sound makes it slow. This is why people like a tube preamp with class D...or other solid state ammps. A nice combo. I tweak my whole system enough that even without a tube I get very musical and revealing sound. Most people do not know how to tweak that well so a tube piece of gear is a nice way to get to heaven.

The Nilai amps have built in buffers and regulators....so the only tweaks you can do is to mod the output filter caps and change all the wiring and jacks and damp the chassis (yes, it is a worthwhile improvement).

Did you not read what I said?  I said the amps will all measure the same.....this is absolutely true.  While it is true that when changing parts the distortion changes....because all noise and veils are distortion.  However, you CANNOT measure a change in measured distortion when changing passive parts.  I can hear the difference in 2 inches of wire.....try measuring that!  We have been down this road many times.  You are one of the few people on the planet who BELIEVE what you just said.  Again, you cannot measure the difference in distortion by changing passive parts, damping, fuses, cables, etc.....no way Jose!  Lift your cables off the floor.....you get lower distortion....try measuring that!  Try removing the steel plate and bolt off your toroidal transformer and raise it off the chassis with a one inch piece of wood and be amazed at the sonic difference....try measuring that.  Please, come over to the "dark side".....it is way more fun than re-stating the same BS.  You will learn a lot and your products will get even better and you will make more money.  A win for everyone.  But many will take their "opinion" to the grave.....It is called being "dead right".  I am wrong many times.....I change my mind....it is fun....it is an ever changing game....infinite and full of surprises.....I learn new sonic things most every week.

I first heard about the 1656 from a description of the LSA Discovery Warp 1 amp. I bought some and put them in place of the 1612s in the Purifi factory input board. Did not like them, not as musical as 1612. You might love them....but trust only your OWN ears.....not what others say. Most people act like sheep.....just following and repeating what others say somewhere. How about the "You just need to have the impedance 10 times higher for a preamp to amp match".....another words, a 100 ohm output impedance is fine driving an amp with 1K input impedance. Who the heck made up that statement? But you see it repeated on forums over and over. My 50 ohm output impedance source sounded better with a 150K load than it did with a 50K load. How about bypssing caps....."The rule is that you need a bypass cap that is one tenth the value". What a bunch of nonesense. You need the value and type that sounds best with the main cap. Many use .02uf to bypass large caps. You must listen to know. You must love to really know love. Please Love more......more often and more deeply. Makes you happy.

Yes, some will laugh at their own folly.  I would llike to see you prove this statement: "You certainly can measure a change in distortion when passive parts are replaced!"  Show us the beef!  Where are your graphs?  Show us the volumes of statements from other high end audio designers who have tested this and show graphs.....please.......I have NEVER in my entire life heard of any high end audio designer, engineer, manufacturer say this except for you.  If this statement were true then every time a manufacturer made the sound better by upgrading the jacks, fuses, wires, resistors, damping of parts, capacitors, power supplies, power supply parts, etc. into infinity.....they would state it.....and they would show graphs to prove it. They would say.  We found a better cap.....we replaced our super last years cap with a new one and not only does it sound better but the distortion went down .001 percent of distortion.  But no one has ever said this....because you CANNOT measure the distortion of most parts. 

A Furutech AC inlet sounds better than the one you use.  If you replaced yours with a Furutech would your amp measure better?  (By the way, the Furutech ones with Rodium plating sound different from the ones with gold plating....same with their NCF technology.....do they measure differently?  does Furutech claim such?).  Removing the steel hardware on your power supply transformer and raising it off the chassis improves the sound.  Can you measure that?  I listened to three different brands of tiny .1 percent nichrome surface mount resistors that all looked the same and all of them had slightly magnetic end caps.  This was a 75 ohm resistor on the output of a Crystek clock.  One brand sounded much better than the others.  Did that change the measurements of the Oppo I was modding?  Hardly.

If you are using junk parts....like bad electolytics, ceramics, very inductive resistors and put them in a sensitive place then not only will the device sound bad but it will measure worse than using a better made part.  But what high end manufacturer uses junk ceramics as a feedback or coupling cap?  The knowledge on caps and their sound and distortion was first published in Audio Magazine by Marsh and Jung back in 1980....I am sure you remember that.  That article changed what high end manufacturers did.  They realized that bad dialectric caps sounded bad.....so they all changed to film caps and the high end electrolytic caps market (Elna, Blackgate, etc.) started.  Conrad Johnson started using all film caps in their power supply (no electrolytics whatsoever).  However, every brand of super high end film caps sounds different (including all the various models from the same company).  For instance....Clarity cap makes many models of film caps.  They claim the better ones "sound better".  There is no mention of lower distortion measurements on their site.  If they could measure lower distortion....they would brag about it....obviously.

Ralph, I wish you the best.....but if you are going to sit all by yourself on that tiny branch and saw away......well, eventually.....you fall.  

Here is an article about using really bad parts in portable audio devices......yes, those seriously bad parts can be measured.......However, we cannot measure the parts that are used in high end audio......unless you are Ralph....he must have super sensitive test equipment no manufacturer of better sounding parts has.

Sorry, wrong.  You have no idea what is producing those different numbers.  You just want to believe in something.  Those Wima Polyester caps that they use (both Fosi and Ayima now use the in all their latest gear) are crap.  I replace them with modified Wima polyprop caps that are oriented so the outside foil is to ground.  The Ayima Max and all the latest Fosi and Ayima amps all use the same inductors and capacitors yet still measure different.  Lots of things in the design can influence the measurements.  Fosi is now adding feedback around the output coil and this lowers the distortion and makes it less load variant (ie....measures flat at 8 ohms and 4 ohms).  The only way to know if a single component (or several) changes the sound and or measurement is to use the same amp and just change the parts.  Then you will actually KNOW something.

Boy you just keep sawing on that limb.......you cannot say anything but the same thing over and over and you know you are wrong and cannot prove otherwise. You alone hold your opinion. I have been around since 1975 and in the industry since then. I did not say it changed the measurements.....but if you are going to look for a different measurement than that is the way you would do it......using one amp or device.

Please prove you are correct. Show us the measurements......You know you cannot or you would have done so by now. You know you are wrong and just keep saying you are right. Would you rather be LOVING or RIGHT. Some would rather be dead right then ever admit that they were wrong. Are you one of them?

You are not your thoughts....you are not your opinion. You are infinite love and joy....and always will be....forever and ever. You can let go of your opinions because next life you won’t even remember them....you will obsessed with something else you need to let go of....he he.

When you really truly love yourself at your core.....you cannot do or say anything that is not in harmony with your soul.....you speak truth. Please love yourself more. I would love you to be more happy. Having pretend opinions...to be right...is not happy creating. Growing up and admitting you are wrong is the hardest thing to do. We are all so stubborn (me too). It is so easy to be bad......to be righteous......it is hard to be loving. It takes great courage to be loving. For we fear rejection....as we reject ourselves. Look in the mirror when you first get up in the morning and smile at yourself and tell yourself out loud that you love yourself and are beautiful. Do this several times every day.....Caress your face like your mother did when you were a baby. I do it when I drive. Wave at people. Tell people how beautiful they are and thank them for sharing their light with the world. Treat yourself and everyone as if they/you are your pet or baby. This is the way to really start to feel love for yourself. There is just God loving itself. You are your mother....the mother of all.....loving your self and everyone. Forever. This is the truth of your soul. Bless everyone.....forever.

I don't think you are subborn.  You are just checking out all possibilities.  However, ASR themselves say that super low distortion is not required for "perfect sound"  Only a certain measurement of SINAD is needed.  They like lower measurments but they never claim they sound better....because they believe everything that measures below their SINAD value is perfectly transparent.

It is not just the input stage that changes the sound in a Pufifi amp build.....it is the damping of parts and the input board.....the cables, the AC inlet, the output connectors, the quality of parts on the input board. etc. to infinity.  I modify the Sparko regulators and the Sparko pro op amps for better sound.  I modifiy the ouput filter caps on the Purifi boards by removing all 6 on each board and removing the distortion producing steel leads and soldering 6N copper leads using Wonder Solder.  I then test the caps for outside foil and put them all back in so the outside foil is to ground on all the caps.  This makes a noticeable sonic improvement......and no, I bet you cannot measure it.  Look at the reviews of the NAD Purifi amp and my modded Purifi amp on 10 Audio.......he says my amp is way better and even with the mods it is cheaper than the NAD.  This game is infinite......just like our own nature. Eveything makes a difference and most things that make a sonic improvement cannot be measured.

Ralph,

It took you two days to reply and that is all you can come up with? You will say anything just to make me look bad so you can feel you are right.....wow! The two statements are not contradictory......I said "if it changes the measuremets". Again, never implied it did. You are just making something up to make me look bad, so that people might dismiss the fact that you stated something untrue. You are lying.....plain and simple. You cannot measure the distortion in high end used passive components......that is a lie.....and you know it. You have never proved that you can....and no other designer (that I know of) has ever said this except you.

The only way you can prove you are correct is to show measurements. The only intelligent (non ego driven) response to this post would be that:.....your measurements....your quotes from others who have tried this and show their measurements. Any other reply would just be from your ego.....(defending your postiion...without proof). So is the statement you made true? If so, prove it. Othewise it is a lie.

Why would someone make up stuff and post it online? I try to state what I know about....that is directly experienced or relay info from others who directly experience stuff.

I wish you well, but stating something on a public forum that is not true and then defending the statement by trying to make someone look bad who points out your untruth (rather that prove your original statement).....does not help your reputation. Why would I trust anything else you say if you just make up stuff and post it?

Now you are saying 6N copper is a myth. Can you prove it? Is this a belief or a BE LIVE? Please show us the measurements. From what I read, the claims of 7N and 8N are made up, but 6N can be real.  All wire sounds different no matter what the amount of claimed Oxygen free level. A single piece of wire will sound different depending on the direction it is used.....even PCOCC wire. All above sonic statements tested with my ears....so it’s a BE LIVE. Belden make the Iconoclast insterconnect cables and those guys are VERY scientific.....however, they make three different versions....pitch copper, OFC and PCOCC. They go up in price accordingly. Every one who has reviewed them agrees that the PCOCC ones sound the most transparent. Everything makes a difference....my usual statement. And Everything is LOVE.....the statement of the Universe....every second. Enjoy.

Class D amps have been getting better and better.  You have the "all you need is more feedback to lower the distortion" people....Bruno, for instance....and you have the "all you need is a certain kind of distortion" people ......Ralph, for instance..... you have the "all you need is a tube buffer to sweeten it up" people....PS Audio, for instance, you have the "We are using the best Ganfets....all the rest use junk" people.....AGD for instance, etc.  However, it is not just one thing.....this is what I say over and over.  AGD has had two updates to their "tubey thang" and everyone agrees the latest is the best sounding.....they are still using the same "magic Ganfets" they used in the original version.  Look at the Aavik amps that use the Pascal modules.....they have different versions of the basically same amp but they add more "active Tesla circuits"....more dither circuits, use a more damped and low hysteresis chassis (made from copper) and use more tweaky feet in their more expensive ones.....same Pascal module used in each one.....but all the reviews state the more expensive ones sound better.  So, they are selling you more tweaked versions.  This is exactly what I do to Purifi, Ncore, etc. amps......I tweak them to make them sound better.  They will not measure any better.....just like the various more expensive Aaviks don't measure any better.....they just sound better.  The new $10K Ganfet amp from Mytek has been promised for over 3 years......but supposedly is starting to ship soon?....he he.  Like waiting for Godot.  Laiv audio is said to be working on a GAN class d amp.  Their new $2700 Harmony DAC is the latest rage.  .  It is interesting that Aavik now has a class A amp as their reference amp....so they think class a is still the best (well, for $70K, it better sound great!). However, they are using a stock? Pascal module in their class D amps.   What if they used their own super class D circuit or one from AGD or Purifi or Ralph or whatever?  Still much more evolution to be had here.  Class A transistor amps really started to get tweaked back in the late 70s......class D really on has maybe10 years of serious tweaking. Here is a link to a post on Audio Circle where two people describe the difference between using the stock polyester Wima output filter caps and my modified Polypropylene Wima caps.  The comments worth reading are on the first page and the last page......everything in between is mostly people arguing about nothing

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=118868.0

The statement from Greg just shows his ignorance. Of course, you do not need to have matched fets at the input of your class D amp.....you can just use inferior sounding integrated circuit ICs.....he he. He does not listen to parts and execution in his class A/B amps nor in his class D amps. NAD is not a high end tweak company like VAC, AGD, Aavik, Gryphon, Merrill, etc. These guys listen to everything including the parts and execution in their class D amps......as stated above about AGD and Aavik. Just read the review on 10 Audio about the NAD C298 Purifi based amp and then read his review of my modded VTV Purifi amp (which costs less with the mods than the NAD does stock). He rated the NAD at a 6 (extremely low rating from him) with mine a 9.5 bordering on a 10. You can keep quoting people who do not tweak all day long but it does not stop the truth as known by actual listening tests.....Emprical knowledge.....directly experienced listening tests are the ONLY proof of transparency......not what someone says (including me) on a forum or what someone believes. Everything makes a difference......and that includes the parts and execution in class D amps. The latest rage Fosi and Ayima cheap amps using the TDA 3255 class D chips all have sockets for changing the op amps that are buffers before the class D chip. People all over the world have changed those op amps and get different sound.....You, however claim that in a low gain circuit that all op amps have no sound. You are again a minority of one here.....thousands of audiophiles and manufacturers would disagree. Look at all the Purifi and Hypex amps out their that are being sold that offer different op amp choices. They are not doing that to just make money.....but to tailor the sound. Again, everything makes a difference.

Wow, you just stated that all modern op amps are perfect. Yes, you did not state that all opamps made since the beginning of time were perfect (yes, I did not quote you correctly). What you stated before was just what you said: "all modern opamps".....you probably mean after 1980?....I quess that is when you stopped listening. All "modern" op amps have a sound and it is not confimation bias or a bad design flaw. This is where thousands of people (including world class designers) disagree with you. They know that certain brands of op amp sound differently (and most believe discrete op amps are the most transparent). But you have to listen to know.....something you do not do (at least with op amps).

The changes I do to class D amps lower the perceived noise. You hear farther into the recording.....more decay, more ambience, better imaging, more correct harmonic structure, more transparent and real......this is REAL noise reduction.....not some number on a graph. I do no know more about basic design than most designers, however I have more practical knowledge of implementaion and parts and how they affect the sound than most designers. I have been doing listening tests since the mid 70s....and was the first person (back in the late 70s), that I know of, that did straight wire bypass tests on wire....yes, no wire was perfect....

The companies that usually make the best sound do both....they design and they tweak like crazy. That is why they keep updating their stuff.....like the guy at AGD. Check out this page on Burson Audio. Go to the bottom of the page and see all the pics of customers products that were upgraded using their op amps.....you can keep loading more and more and more of them. These people have circuits that are flawed and they have expectation bias?.....come on......This is just the tip of the iceberg worldwide. At the top of the page are Utube reviews of the op amps. You can keep making stuff up and believing it and telling the world about it.......but it is not truth unless it passes the listenng tests. The people who have listened do not agree with you. Burson is now in their 7th generation of discrete op amp....they never stop tweaking....for they know there is no perfection. it is a goal. When you get to the top of the mountain......you look for higher mountains to climb......same with our soul. Love is infinite......the more you eat....the more hungry you become. It is the ULTIMATE ADDICTION.....bringing the highest joy......for everyone.

Wow, that is the best you can do.  You just stated above that any modern op amp has no sound (will not change the sound).  No sound is most peoples definition of "perfect"...or perfectly transparent......Again.....the people who listen do not agree.  Now what little thing that I just wrote will be your next victum of you ego defense mechanism.  Give it a rest....please.  If you keep saying untruth.....then I will have to counter with truth.  Please, all there is is love.  Please do more listening and post some listening test truths.  This will be most helpful.

I knew you could not leave it alone.....you had to have the last statement....so, i will not comment and let the readers here decide for themselves who has truth and who is blowing smoke.

If you want to know something about anything.....then do some research. The internet is a vast wealth of knowledge......but one persons opinion means very little. Don’t be a sheep or a lemming.......After finding out what MANY others say then find out empirically *with your senses" what is true, for YOURSELF. Listen and know. Do not believe me or anyone. Do your own research.....be your own creator, your own God.....for we are made in the image of the almighty. We CAN KNOW for ourself, what is really true about anything......including what is our true spiritual identity/reality......In MY EXPERIENCE......we are all love. and incredibly beautiful and amazing. The truth shall set you free......free from your ego mind.....free from worry.....free from death.....for we are eternal. Happy forever!

This is not a discovery. Those that have listened, have known this since audio reproduction and measureing equipment were invented. Most things that make a sonic difference cannot be measured.......plain and simple. Why would I care to convince some science measurement addicts that this is true. Its maybe 20% of people who think of themselves as audiophiles who believe that way. I say, let them have their playground. But when they come into our commonly heald public presence.....and speak their non-listening.....no real empirical knowledge BS.....then we need to speak our listened to truth and wish them a nice journey.

The ego is very stubborn......ever heard the term "dead right". A non believer will not even attend a listening session with believers (try inviting Ralph to your op amp rolling listening session).......If they heard a difference then they would have been wrong all this time and if they told everyone in the room they heard no difference....then those people would think they are deaf or stubborn and never trust what that person says from that point on. The ego wants to maintain the status quo.....if you say in public the sun is blue....then your ego will defend that position till you die or admit you were wrong......and who wants to admit they were wrong.

The whole problem here is false identification. We think we are our bodies, feelings, thoughts, sex, race, religion, etc. WE are NONE Of that. We are infinite spirit. We don’t need to cling to thoughts and "protect" ourselves from each other......WE are truly all one......one big blob of love. The mind cannot hold this infinity that we are....so we pretend we are less than the all that is and judge ourselves and everyone. When you realize that you are the MOTHER of all creation (creating every single thing you experience and that everyone experiences)......and also everything in the whole universe is ALSO the MOTHER of all creation......and that creation is happening every single second of the forever that we are......it changes you.....You treat everyone and everything as your BABY, your young chiild, your pet....your ultimate lover. Divine mother is everywhere. You are divine mother......Happy Mothers day.......it is always mothers day. Kisses and hugs.

Ralph, Prove it. Show us the measurements and the correlating listening tests.....you cannot. You just have Myths that you make up. Yes, it is not published because it does not exist. The only thing tricky is your mind here......you cannot fool anyone. You need to show proof. Your words are tricky (reality is real).....show us the beef! Show us the measurements that show how all op amps sound different.....since everyone who listens thinks they sound different. If they sound different there must be a measurement (according to you). But, of course, to you they all sound the same.....so why measure. How long will you keep up this charade? Till death do you part? Are you married to your opinion? Can you laugh at yourself? Can you feel the love and bliss that exist right now?

asctim,

I hereby assign you to the task you want me to do. You surely want your name in lights because you talk about it. Please, get to work now.....please try to prove the unprovable.....good luck.

Love grows by attention to love. Give everyone more attention....this is the way love grows......"Shower the people you love, with love....show them the way that you feel"........the people you love is everyone.....Every single person you meet from this moment on.....wants something from you......this reality is now imbedded in your brain from this moment till eternity......and what they want is to be loved and noticed and appreciated.....every single person. The only reason why there is violence and lying and anything negative.....is because someone feels unloved.....pretty darn simple.....but it is hard to remember to be loving in every circumtance. This is our task.....to grow in love. Keep loving......never stop loving.

Start in the morning by looking in the mirror and gently stroking your face and tell yourself outloud how beautiful you are and how much you love yourself....smile at yourself......Do this as much as possible everyday....will change your life......then when you do this to others it will blow the whole universe to pieces......OMG....I love you so much.

The one with the truth is the one with the truth. Does not matter what the backround is of a person. By the way, I have manufactured DACs, amps, and passive preamps.....see EVS Millennium DACs on Audio review....had my passive preamp rated class A in Stereophile for 7 years......worked for Monster Cable, MFA, Sota and have had my own audiophile company since 1989......I bean around the block. It is not about taking sides.....it is about truth. What I say is true....and thousands and thousands of audio designers, engineers, and audiophiles from all around the world agree. What Ralph says.......very, very few agree with. Who is right does not matter.....what matters is that we know what is true. Again, test everything yourself. Have you tried different op amps and listened? Have you tried different passive components and measured them? If not, what do you know? This is not about wanting someone to be right or wanting something to be right.....this is about what is true. And the only way you know what is true in audio is to listen.......choose your favorite components with your ears.......choose your audio knowledge with your ears. As I said before, do not believe anyone....if you do then you are a SHEEP.....just repeating someone elses thoughts......do your own research.....be a smart person.......be self motivated....think for yourself. And most important of all....love yourself and everyone with all your heart and soul.

riccitone,

What is your direct experience with the Nilai amp that makes you state what you did? Did you compare it directly to stock or modified Purifi, high powered Purifi, NCX500, Orchard, LSA, Peachtree, ICE and Pascal?  I did mods to a Nilai but when I did the mods (pictures of modded Nilai on my site) my system was not working so I could not A/B with my modded Purifi to find out how good it is relatively.  I know what the mods do....I have done the same mods to many amps and the results are always a better sound.

How you view the world is a reflection of how you view yourself. The universe is your mirror. More and more I love what I see. I don’t always like it......but even the likes/dislikes are fading in the sunshine of your eternal love. It just feels so good to love.......we never have to stop.  God (dog backwards), help me to see that your love is always present and that I am always loved and adored.

The reason someone in 2003 would say that is we all wanted hi rez....and the only hi rez then was SACD and DVD-A.....and you then needed an SACD player as Sony would not allow digital out of the DSD signal. So, I started modding SACD players.....because that is what everyone wanted. Of course, when downloads started to happend and then streaming.....then DACs came back into vogue. Now there are a lot of integrated amps, streamers and powered speaker that have DACs built in but the DAC game is still alive and well. Look at the raves over the new cheap Holo and the Laiv DACs.

If I were looking for a solid state amp in the under $3K range than the Purifi, Orchard, NCx500 and Nilai (stock, and of course, modded) fill the bill. However, if you want to spend twice as much, then you have the AGD Tempo and tubey dude, the Atmasphere and the Coda 5.5 to consider. I would never buy one of these amps without comparing them all. They all have rave reviews but hardly any comparisons. Most amps can be purchased with a 30 day trial.....of course, you have wait times for some amps......like the Coda. Even more expensive would be the bigger AGDs. the Merrills, the hopefully about to be released Mytek, etc......and of course, you can combine a class D amp with a tube preamp or input stage to give that tube magic.

More about the DACs I made..........29 reviews....all raves.  The Millennium 2 had a self designed all fet IV stage....direct coupled.