Conrad Johnson ACT2 against Audio Research Ref 3

Ginas:
You can call Kyle at Reference Audio Mod (981-780-2869)
See URL below:

http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RAM&Category_Code=SCLK3

Gmorris, where can I get this done at? I am in Minnesota. Thanks in advance. Ginas

Ginas;

I own the SCD-1. The red book performance can be markedly improved by upgrading the clock with an Audiocom SC3/PSU3 combo. The upgraded SCD-1 is a super performer on red book cds. It is highly recommended that you explore this option before buying a new cd player.

I listen to more redbook CD than SACD. Upgrading the source is next in my list of things to to. Maybe next week i will buy the Cary 306. For right now, I just wanted to focus on buying a nice preamp and the rest of the system will be built or upgraded around it later as needed. Thanks for your advice.Ginas

Then, you did not sell your preamp.

I guess I don't understand why you said better without one. I assumed you had given up on the ARC.

Just a bit of sharing. My personal opinion is you should upgrade the source first. The sony SCD-1 seems to be the weakest link in the system. I am not sure if you mainly listen to redbook CD or SACD. If it's the former, I strongly suggest upgrade the CD source first. It has a profound effect of the overall sound. The reason is I have previously owned the SCD-1 and it's hugely disappointing for playing regular CDs.

Personally, I am using CJ 16 preamp, CJ premier 350 power. Previously, I have also owned CJ premier 12 monoblock, ARC LS25 and Ref 2 Mk 2 preamp. I think the choice between CJ and ARC shouldn't be difficult at all since they have a distinct taste in their own good. In my city(HongKong), the ACT2 cost almost double the price of Ref3!

Hi Albert

I usually agree with you as well but your analogy is wrong in this case.

Having said this however I really would never part with my ARC Ref 3 in my system.

Oneobgyn, I usually agree with you but

FWIW.... The perfect preamp is no preamp at all

Maybe, but in my opinion it's kind of like a car with no transmission.

Sure, a car with no transmission is lighter, fewer parts to move, and less mass "in the way" for the engine to drive the rear wheels. However, matching load for the most efficient power transfer is frequently more important than removing the "excess" parts.

It's true this opinion is based on my experience with (primarily) analog source, and my choice requires both a preamp and moving coil step up stage.

Looking at the bright side though, my preamp and phono are only 300 pounds and 6 boxes, each about the size of your amps. The sound is wonderful and you hardly notice the preamps when your not home.

Ginas

FWIW.... the perfect preamp is no preamp at all

Branimir, my wandering mind got the best of me momentarily but I am now back on track with the ACT2 and Ref3 or else it's going to take me a life time or more to search for the perfect preamp. As stated above, I have heard and loved the ref 3 but just want a taste of the ACT2 before making the final purchase of preamp ( I hope). I almost bought the Ref3 today but in the last minute I was able to convince my self to wait until I hear the ACT2. Thanks again and I will keep you all informed.

Ginas, I don't understand why are you more confused? In your post you said that you are interested in ARC REF3 or CJ ACT2 and that you will probably move to ARC or CJ amp as well... CJ ACT2 will work nicelly with your DNA500 and you can move later to either CJ new LPM140s(tube) or Premier350(SS). Both will make excellent synergy with ACT2.
If you go for ARC REF3 then IMO next step is either ARC REF210 or REF610T. REF3 is sounding very best via balanced connection... Synergy is everything,IMHO!
Do not forget about new Cary SLP-05, it will go very nicelly with CAD211 AE...
And I agree with Albert, VTL TL7.5 is hybrid as is Lamm L2.
Happy hunting!

Ginas

I am with you about confusion. But that is what happens when you ask for opinions. But as others have mentioned you really need to try and listen to both as they are distinctly different animals or if that is not possible go with what you know.

Chuck

I have just heard the ACT, but have had some previous AR preamps and currently own a pair of Premier 8s.

I second the recommendation to try to go and listen (preferably at your place), generaly speaking I would say thet the CJ line is a tad more musical, organic and involving than AR, which I find more analitic and grainy.

Fernando

I am now even more confused then when I first posted this subject but all feedbacks thus far are interesting and valuable to me (thanks again). I mostly listen to Piano, Jazz, classical, and a little bit of rock-n-roll. This next question is outside of the preamp subject but can someone comment on Cary Audio, CAD-211 Annivesary Edition amplifier and its ability to drive the AndraII's. Is it powerful enough to get the best out of the Andra II's?

Odd that the VTL 7.5 even qualifies as a tube preamp. It is all solid state except for two 12 AX7's.

Wonder why they left out the Aesthetix Callisto? Maybe because it has 22 tubes?

And what do the people at wilson audio know. Not trying to be funny or sarcastic it is just I have just never thought their speakers to be all that great. And believe me I am trying to understand as I have listened to their speakers in dealers showrooms on several occasions; I just can not appreciate them. Oh well different subject...........sorry.

Chuck

Just curious, how many 6H30s are out there? Are they still in production and how much do they cost? What is their average life span?

The 6N30P (or 6H30Pi if you parse Cyrillic) is a current production tube. The 6H30Pi-DR is purportedly the NOS version - early '80s Russian military, while the 6H30Pi-EB is what CJ includes as stock with the ACT2. The former (DR) goes for $30-$50 each if you can find them - try Victor Khomenko at BAT or Evgeny at Conus Audio; 'twas Viktor who dubed this the 'super tube', iirc. The latter (EB, from Sovtek) run anywhere from $10 to $30. Some dealers offer them cryoed.

I've tried all three in both the ACT2 and the Premier 140. The DR (NOS) version in the 140 *may* yield a slight increase in top-end extension ... emphasizing *may*. In the ACT2 I have not heard a difference yet and have stopped fiddling with its tubes. Lifespan is a healthy 7500-10000 hrs.

Interesting in the "who's who of tube preamps.

I have heard that the people at Wilson Audio view the 3 best Reference tube preamps to be the
ARC Ref 3
CJ ACT 2
VTL 7.5

I also listened hard and heavy to the Lamm L2 preamp hoping that it would add synergy to my system using the Lamm ML 2.1 monos and I found it very cold and very sterile.

I just feel the Ref3 is for "my" ears the best tube preamp that I have ever owned

Jtimothya, what Wittgenstein also said in the first page of the Tractatus Logico Philosophicus is:

"what can be said at all can be said clearly, and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence.
Thus the aim of the book is to draw a limit to thought, or rather--not to thought, but to the expression of thoughts: for in order to be able to draw a limit to thought, we should have to find both sides of the limit thinkable (i.e. we should have to be able to think what cannot be thought). It will therefore only be in language that the limit can be drawn, and what lies on the other side of the limit will simply be nonsense."

'tis all really rather confusin'! I do love the Ref 3, but will not comment about Act 2 as I haven't heard it (LW would be proud of me!). I can suggest though, that a fair comparison between the two should involve identical brands/models/lengths of ICs going in/out of the devices, only difference being RCA vs XLR. Furthermore, it is important that the Ref 3 be run in true balance mode, as it can operate also in single ended mode using XLR connectors, though the sound quality is in this submode and in any single ended configuration degraded.

Just curious, how many 6H30s are out there? Are they still in production and how much do they cost? What is their average life span? Thanks

Ginas, I don't have a strong opinion on the ACT 2 vs. the Ref 3 but suggest you might consider upgrading your digital source. (sorry to hijack this thread)

The Andras need serious power, especially current, to make them come alive, which they will. 200 watts minimum, and more is better.

First, a question ... what type of music do you play?

My current system includes the ACT2 and the Premier 140, so I've made my choice. I have not heard the ARC Ref 3 although I am generally familiar with ARC gear. Without intending to confuse further, the VTL TL-7.5 is another consideration.

The ARC vs. CJ comparison goes way back and both manufacturers continue to improve their line while retaining the same familial characteristics - their sonic DNA if you will - that has distinquished them across the years.

In terms of build quality each is best of breed from their respective houses and each will retain value over the years.
Both use the Russian 6H30, which pretty much rules out tube rolling.

In terms of sonics, from a 'classic' audiophile perspective these are gold vs silver, yin vs yang, warm vs. cool. While those terms hardly scratch the surface of each component's virtue, they are at the core of the approach from each manufacturer. There is no confusing their sound. In some respects it should be an easy choice based on your own preferences and priorities. This is not a Lincoln vs. Cadillac decision, more like a Ginger vs. MaryAnn dilemma (sorry) - the differences in approach from the two shops are profound, imo. I'd think of it as a long term purchase decision - what do I want to live with over time?

Wittgenstein wrote 'what cannot be said must be consigned to silence' - I would add, 'or to music'. To my ears the sound of the ACT2 is the sound of music.

Ginas, i have heard both the ACT II and Ref 3 at shows; i like them both. what is interesting is that both pre's actually are more strictly neutral than their pedigree's might suggest. i like the sense of control of the ARC Ref 3 and the delicacy of the ACT II.

i try not to hijack threads; but your above comment "this hunt for the perfect preamp" prompts me to add another candidate to your list. particlarly since you are into vinyl. i have a pre-production version of the new battery powered darTZeel preamp in my room. i will just say that if you are truely after "the perfect preamp" and maybe even "the perfect phono stage" then do what you can to listen to the dart. it has blown away all my previous references. and.....as you also are in the market for an amp; the darTZeel amps are a 'silly good' match with the pre.

last weekend i had a couple of guys over; one with SET's and Horns, the other has all Lamm gear (including ML2.1's) and just sold his Avantgarde Trio's. both could not believe there were no tubes in the signal path of my system. the ML2.1 owner commented that until, after listening for 2 hours, i mentioned that there were no tubes, he had not been aware of that. that was a first time of that ever happening to him while listening to solid state.

your Andra II's (designed by Von Schweikert like my VR9's) would sing with the dart gear.

Thanks kindly for your feedbacks in this hunt for a perfect preamp. Here are my components:

Preamp: ACT2 or Ref3
Amp: McCormack DNA 500 ( to be upgraded soon to tubes- premier 140? or ARC??) I need help here as well but only have enough money for preamp at this time.
Speakers: Andra II
Cables: Acoustic Zen Top of the line.
Analog: VPI HRX
Digital: Sony SCD1
Analog preamp: Still looking ( currenly using the Audible illusions M 3A with John C gold board)

If the decision between the two comes down to which one exhibits less coloration and greater transparency, I willing to bet that its the new CJ ACT 2.

Oneobgyn is absolutely correct- the REF 3 is an outstanding preamp, certainly among a handful at the absolute pinnacle of the current state of the art, and so is the ACT2.At this level of system performance and price individual amp to preamp synergies and system balance take precedence over declaring something an absolute best over another. You should definitely make the effort to borrow one and hear it in your own system before making the call, IMO. I'd also add the excellent Shindo preamps to your list as well. Any one of them are more than worthy.

I have heard the ACT2 and find it to be exceptionally wonderful BUT for my ears and my system I just have not heard a better tube preamp than the Ref 3.

Oneobgyn. Have your heard the ACT 2 or just stating ARC is best based on your upgrade from ref 2 to ref 3.

What is the rest of your system? If you will use single-ended connection to the amp than CJ ACT2 is better choice(ACT2 is inverting phase as all CJ products). On the other hand if you will use balanced(XLR) connection to the amp REF3 is far better choice! IMO, REF3 is the best balanced tube preamp on the market and one of the best in general!
Fully agree with Oneobgyn.

Well my vote goes the other way but not before acknowledging that the CJ ACT 2 is a superb preamp, however IMO the REF 3 is for my money simply the best preamp that I have ever owned. It is magic in my system. I owned the Ref 2 Mk ll which I thought was good but just nowhere in the league of the Ref 3. To me the Ref 3 is what a tube preamp is all about.

I have only listened to Audio Research equipment in showrooms and for a short periods of time but it just never pulled me into the music emotionally. So my vote is for CJ as it has always been my cup of tea just much more musical than any of the AR equipment that I heard. To me CJ is what vacum tube pre-amps and amps for that matter are all about. Obviously at this price point you need to listen to both if you can or if as you state you like the AR sound then maybe your decision is made.

Chuck

Had both these preamps in my system recently and it was a pretty quick and easy decision. Both myself and a friend who heard the comparison ended up purchasing the CJ ACT2. Another friend in a different ($1m+) system heard the same thing. In his session of 5 people it was also unanimous. My advice is if you can listen to both and make up your own mind as well.