Computer to DAC Streamer

Yysantabarbara,

Here is our take on the following pieces:

First any really good dedicated server will outperform a computer for the purpose of music transport. A computer is not dedicated to music transcription and the device is not built with just that purpose in mind so the USB output will be filled with noise that affects the intergity of the outgoing data shoving a reclocker on the output still wont fix it.

We sell the Innous so we are going to be biased, after talking to their head engineer as Axpona it is very cfear why their products are so good, they litterally have looked at and measured every device on a motherboard in order to make their devices as quiet as possible and keeping the data pristine, they leave nothing to chance in the goal of making the best sounding servers.

The Mind device seems to be more like a processing board in a nice case, Sim Audio talks very little of what they are doing to keep the data in pristine condition.

The Auralic G2 is a very well built and designed device that should offer excellent performance, it has good power supplies, an excellent case, and has been designed for music transport.

The difference is that Innous does not believe that a device can produce noise free data on so many different connections, they really do believe that USB or an Ethernet output requires a lot of engineering and care to make those two outputs sound and perform optimally.

The Sonore device looks very interesting they are using SFP optical network to keep noise from the network out of their device, how the entire device perfoms is a mystery.

We had an older Sonore server and it was good, but did not show the enginnering or sound quality of either the Auralic or Innous products, with this new one we have no idea.

In our ranking it would be Innous Zenith MK III
Auralic G2
Sonore
Sim

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Innous dealers

We use the Zenith with the Anthem STR it makes a fantastic combo.

This is an interesting discussion, however, we have done over the years quite a lot of testing with both computers and servers, which have included models from Aurender, Auralic, Naim, Baetis, modified Mac Minis, and PCs.

The concept of a server is that it is a dedicated device that can re-packet data without corruption caused by noise present in the data pathways of the device.

If you think that an ordinary computer even one in another room can sound as good as a dedicated server you are sorely mistaken.

We have tested over the years computers with external power supplies, both directly connected via USB and over Ethernet connections, and the sound quality was lacking

The idea of a dedicated server is to preserve the data’s integrity, a dedicated server uses in most cases a custom motherboard, custom usb and or Ethernet outputs, custom BIOS, a linear power supply, re-clocking circuity, shielding, power filtration, and other techniques designed to keep the data signals being sent to the dac pristine.

As per direct USB vs Ethernet connection it really depends on the dac some dacs will sound better via USB while others will sound better via Ethernet.

One interesting test we did was to run a high end streamer/dac directly into a network switch and play Tidal vs feeding the same dac via Ethernet from the Innous

The sound quality of the system was dramatically improved by going through the server which isolated the dacs/streamer from the networks’ noise and also re-packeted the data going to the dac.

The sound stage was dramatically wider, the noise floor was lower, tiny details became easier to hear and the sound quality of the dac became more organic, you would think that the direct path to the network would sound better it wasn’t even close.

The fact that many people find that a dedicated server sounds far better than any old remote computer even over the network is proof positive that a dedicated server makes digital sound better.

As per the Auralic sounding better than an Innous that will be a matter of opinion, the Innous is the hottest server on the market all over Europe, and many people prefer the very analog like sound quality of the Zenith.

Dave and Troy

Audio Doctor NJ Innous dealers

Rbsteno, do you think that because a computer is handling data that all data is the same?
A digital audio waveform is very different binary data packet than what you get in an moving a binary packet of data which is an encoded digital financial transaction for example.

As per SSD they do sound better. As per your Mac running Linux corrupting data absolutely, noise from the motherboard, cpu is riding along with the data packets going to the dac

You really need to talk to Nunio the lead designer of Innous who will give you insight into how digital data is not all the same and how it is easily corrupted.

As per the Aries steamers being good it wasn't, we has an original Aeries and it didnt sound all that good. Your conclusions are based on theory not on practice.
You can visit our shop, we have an ordinary Dell computer in one room, a Baetis Reference in another, an Innous Statement in that same room and an Innous Zenith in another.

We can show you that all of these devices do sound different even over the network.

Dave and TroyAudio Doctor NJ Innous dealers

Rbseteno,

You really need to go back to digital design 101.

Point 1: EMI affects jitter in all  digital systems.

Point 2: Mechanical Hard Drives vs Non Mechanical Hard Drives

A mechanical hard drive by definition creates and radiates a greater amount of  noise which is not just mechanical noise, but with the additional complexity of a moving hard drive's spinning motor, moving platers and other parts, you are going to generate greater amounts of noise which is directly being transfered into the digital signal, and this doesn't matter if your server is in the same room or in a different room then your dac..

An SSD has no moving parts, no motors,  and will therefore by definition by quieter because it is not radiating noise into your digital signal.

Point 3: Empirical evidence vs a perceived expert who by definition will allready have a closed mind.

So a guy comes up and tells you that a particular hard drive sounds better did you stop and ask him how he came to this conclusion or did you tell him it is all bunk because I work for a hard drive manufaturer.

The guy who actually tested different hard drives if his testing methology is vailid and kept the same identical test scenario, perhaps has emprical evidence that in his tests his results were indeed valid and that he was getting better results from one hard drive then another, that doesn't mean his experiences are 100% valid unless other people did the exact same test.

Point 4:

Yesterday just to make sure we are 100% correct in our findings ran a simple experiment, because we are a store, we have multiple servers in three different rooms.

Here was the test:

Krell K300i Roon endpoint, volume was identical on all three Roon devices;

All servers were sending the Krell Roon packeted data over an ethernet connection. 

Two servers were in an differnt room one server was in the same room on the same switch as the Krell K3001.

Played the same track at the same level on three different devices:

1: Innous Zenith MK II
2: Innous Statement
3: Baetis Reference server

Was there a difference and was that difference audible yes it was.

The Statement sounded far more realisitic, the soundstage was more dimensional, there was far greater attack with greatly improved dynamics.

The Baetis was reduced in these areas but still sounded very good.

The older MK II Innous which was the least expensive server sounded the worst, with a much flatter soundstage, and reduced dynamics, bass and resolution.

You are welcome to come to our shop and hear the demo for yourself.

So the take away was yes servers over ethernet do sound audibly different. 

As per previous tests we did compare modified Mac Minis over USB vs Aurender, and Auralic servers and the dedicated servers sounded far better.

Again if you think about noise from the CPU and other chips affecting the digital data flowing out of the server which in the case of a Mac is not designed solely to eliminate radiated noise from affecting music signals it should be obvious that a purposefully designed device will always beat a jack of all trades device not designed for that purpose.

Last point:

"Since I use the ps audio DS dac, I haven’t had any corrupt data or any digital waveform corruption processing data thru Ethernet, no lost packets, and no packets out of order. I must have the only Mac that doesn’t corrupt data, lucky me "

How do you know? By your previous assertions that data from a Mac is just as good as a dedicated server it certainly sounds like you have not made that test.

We also didn't say Auralic Aries were junk we did say the previous versions didn't sound that good and the sound quality of digital today is very different from five years ago. 

Ted Smith is a talented engineer but he is not a greater genius then anyone else that makes great digital, and it is impossible to completely extract a pristine digital data signal that one has allready been corupted by noise which is affecting the modulated wave form which contains your binary packets.

Again we did the test three servers, different room, all over the same ethernet network and all three servers sounded different, same track, same durration, exact same volume, same speakers, same amp.

So unlike you we don't work for a hard drive manufactuer we test audio products that are proven to be market leaders. 

So it seems that Innous really does know how to make a fantastic sounding server.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Innous dealers

Archimago reads like one of those people that argue that cables dont matter, power cables dont matter, power conditioners are bunk.

Jitter is very audible.

The facts are digital is sensitive to corruption if not people wouldnt hear differences between digital cables or transports.

Also talk to the happy Innous, Aurender, Auralic customers who replaced computers with these devices.

The market does not  lie. Nobody would be purchasing these devices if they didnt produce audibily superior results.

On the  contrary we have a lot of very happy Innous customers.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ innous dealers

Dep14 of course you are happy with your Salk streamer, most people are happy with what they own. The reality is that the only way you know if you would be "more" happy would be to do an A/B vs a better streamer.

As we stated earlier the Salk seems to be a pretty ordinary mini pc design, if you compared that to an Innous Zen or a Zenith you should get dramatically better sound.

We have also found that a streamer when feed a better signal still sounds far better than a direct connection to the internet.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Innous dealers

Dep there are two of us, Dave the owner, which is me, I do most of the posts, on occasion Troy writes in.  Troy comes in on weekends and helps evaluate new components and does turntable setups.

We  do a  lot of market research and bring in a lot of  new components for testing. For example we are testing Phison currently, and just brought in Golden Ear. In 2018 we brought in Krell. 

Our line list is very extensive and we read all the on line and magazines.

If we find another product which is better we move out of that one and bring in the new one.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

try this one which is our new in development site

https://audiodoctor.com/wp

new additions Golden Ear and probably a few others also missing PSB

https://audiodoctor.com/wp/our-brands/

Yes Jaked we know. The major issue is we are thinking of rebranding as there is now TheAudio Doctor, plus Needle Doctor and a few other related companies. 

We also get repair requests all the time. UGH

Got any cool untaken new name ideas that start with Audio?

Nope but open to suggestions