Coincident Technology Speakers

kjl,

I am a long time owner of Quads that like you, find them a bit frustrating at times. Last year when I was particularily PO'ed at them, I bought a pair of Partial eclipses to see if I could live with them. The short answer was no. I wasn't willing to give up the nuance that the Quads provide. I did think the Partial's did provide a great bang for the buck and they were definitly more extended on the bottom and capable of being played at higher leavels without fear of damage. In the end, I Quads resolution and musically nature kept me. As for the Quads, I haven't heard a speaker better them in sound staging when properly set up. This means getting them off the floor and way off the back wall - 5' minimum. For the 63's which I use, the Arccii's are essential. I have heard them on the floor and they do sound much smaller that way. I don't know if there are stands available for the 988's but I would look into it before buying another speaker. As far as weight goes, the Quads are not amplifier friendly. I looked on the Thor web site and see that your amp only has 4 & 8 ohm taps. I think what your experiencing is an impedance mis-match. The Quads have a very steep impedence curve in the lower frequencies reaching 30 to 40 ohms at 40 Hz. I have tried the 8 ohm tap with my amp (an ARC D115) and experienced dreadfully thin sound. Through the 16 Ohm tap it is an entirely different matter. I have suprised more than a few people with the low end response of the 63's. I not saying that you'll get more extension - about 40 Hz in my room, just a lot more heft. I hope this helps.

Regards,

Scott

I currently run Coincident Victories with Coincident mini subs. I suspect that the Quads and the Victories have similar extension into the lower octaves with the TV's extending a little further. My choice in going with the Victories was room size. The TV's would be a bit much in my 12 x 15 room. The mini subs when properly placed help fill out the low end without drawing attention to themselves. I'd recommend the Victory over the Eclipse line. The Victories closer to the electrostats in speed and more transparent.

A correction and a couple of further comments related to what I said above:

The correction is that the PX25 amp I'm using at the moment is of course an Audion, not an Audio Note.

The sense of warmth that Harry Pearson found in the midbass of the TVs is detectable on my speakers as well, in comparison to some other speakers of similar quality. I think it slows them down just a bit. I understand that the changes to version II were intended to address this issue, among others. I haven't heard the II, though. I think this slight warmth adds to the musicality of my original version, though perhaps at the expense of their Abso!ute neutrality :-) I'll emphasize that this is only in comparison to a very few other speakers, all of which of course have colourations of their own to muck up the comparison in other ways.

I also think the SEIII has more explicit imaging than the TE or TV, probably because it uses fewer drivers. And on that issue, I'm amazed at how well the 9 drivers per side on the TV integrate. I listen within 8 feet of the speakers, and I never hear separate drivers. I have heard other speakers pull a better disappearing act, but usually at the expense of the authority and fullness the TVs being to the table.

I'm part of an aoudiophile gang in Ottawa that are all Coincident fanatatics. The sperakers we run include a pair of Total Eclipses, two pairs of Super Eclipse III, a bastardized pair of Milleniums (an older two-box design with the Total Eclipse mid/tweeter and a separate woofer box), a pair of Israel's experimental speakers using Manger drivers, and my Total Victories (not the version II). All of them except one pair of SEIII are being driven by tubes of various sorts, with the heretic using a SimAudio I-5. They all sound excellent, with the final quality determined more by the room than the speaker itself.

The rooms vary - a standard living room, a big living room and four dedicated sound rooms of varying size and quality. Mine are in a dedicated 12x19 foot room, which isn't too small for them by any means, since it's well proportioned and well-treated. I'm driving mine with Canary CA-339 push-pull 300B monos, and I'm currently trying an Audio Note Silver Night PX25 with equally good results. I've run mine with a fairly wide variety of amps ranging from 6 to 100 watts. The speakers ran well on all of them except a pair of Wavelength 300Bs that didn't have the guts to push through the fairly complex crossover.

The sound from all of Israel's current speakers is great - very revealing and dynamic, but with a touch of warmth that preserves the musical intent. The music has a real sense of scale. IMO the sweet spot in the lineup in the SEIII. It's easier to integrate in most rooms, is trivial to drive, and sounds fantastic. The TV and TE are bigger sounding and give orchestras more weight, but there's no question they require more of a committment to own.

All that said, should you switch to them from Quads? You will definitely gain the dynamics and scale you're looking for, but you will lose a degree of resolution and nuance in the process. Good as they are, Coincidents aren't electrostatics. They don't have quite the speed, and they don't have that shimmering sense of air. However, in my opinion dynamics are more important than that last bit of air, which is why I bought Coincidents in the first place. If you've found yourself missing that, then either the SEIII or the TVII will definitely float your boat.

In a nutshell, Coincident's ROCK! I have the newer Super Eclipse III and I couldn't be happier with what I'm hearing from them.

Construction is supreme and the finish will blend with any decor. Detail, detail, detail if that is what you like. Excellent soundstage and fabulous bass.

For myself it's a keeper!!

I've owned the Super Eclipse Series II for more than three years and they have been totally satisfying. I recently upgraded them with the Extender Feet that helped widen the footprint and compensate for the tall, narrow design that can be a little "tippy". I did not have a problem in that area, but the feet did strengthen the low bass and improve imaging slightly.

The Super Eclipse at CES was the Series III, which has a different midrange driver thats rabeted into the front baffle and includes a small port below the lower of the two drivers. They sounded fabulous with Manley Amps at CES.

I have mine connected to Welborne Labs Laurels - 300B single-ended triodes - and in my apartment they work superbly, since the Supers are an easy load (don't drop below 12 Ohms) and are 93 dB/watt/metre.

Sometimes I fantasize that I might get the Total Victory II, for they are out of this world, but probably too much speaker for an apartment dweller. If you have the space, they would certainly be worth considering. The side-mounted woofers give you options in positioning, as I'm sure you are aware.

The Coincident line is expensive, but the cabinets are really well made with lots of internal bracing, excellent binding posts, good internal wiring (the new TVII has been rewired internally with Israel's latest speaker wires). Finish on my black Supers is fine, and maintenance free.

You don't see that many Coincidents on the used market, and I think this implies that owners are pretty happy with them.

You would probably be aware of Harry's latest word on the TVs, which had been working well in a muiti-channel system. When he ran them as a stereo pair he said he noticed two colourations that had not been obvious before: "added warmth in the midbass region and a sweetening and slight prominence in the upper midrange" (TAS Dec 2004 p. 94). I can't say I am aware of that with my Supers, but I don't have Harry's experience, nor do I listen at the volume he does.

As I said, I've owned these speakers for over 3 years, and they have been a source of great listening pleasure and personal pride. They easily reveal subtle differences in upstream components (like changing between Pass and Seymour outlets and the Acme silver-plated versions, or different versions of Grover's silver balanced interconnects) so there is plenty of resolution. Microdynamics are good, maybe not the last word in dynamic "push" - but not reticent either. The top end is extremely smooth and (in my system) never edgy or annoying.

I use a BAT VK50SE preamp and a Sony XA777ES SACD player that's been extensively modified by Ric Schultz (EVS).

I'm sure the Coincident would be a very different flavour to the Quad 988s, and I hope that it's a flavour you like. If it is, you will be very pleased with either the Supers or the TV.

Regards,

I heard them at CES in the Manley Labs room and was blown away. I thought they were one of the best sounds this year. The owner, designer is a first rate individual as well. I'm a Soundlab guy and they drew me in every time. Good luck.

I have to tell you that they are my favorite brand of speakers that I have listened to up to this point. I started out with the Total Eclipse LCR which are the Total Eclipse without the woofer section. I still own them and have really enjoyed them coupled with a very musical sub such as the Martin Logan Grotto. I drove from Michigan to New Hampshire over a weekend to buy their big brothers, the Super Eclipse. It was worth every mile of the trip. I have fallen in love with their extremely revealing sound. Their build quality is absolutely outstanding. Do yourself a favor and listen to them if you can. The Super Eclipse I am using now are not going to be leaving my system. With the lights off I get the feeling the vocalist or band is in my living room. They disappear completely and they sound as "real" as any system I have heard yet. They will definitely reveal any flaws in your other components and the recordings. By the looks of your electronics you really don't have to worry about that. They just show you what is there on the recording. Good luck.