"Cleaning" Vinyl Makes It Worse Not Better!

@whart I agree with you. I am not knocking all the work that Neil has done. I was pointing out that he has made some pronouncements (to me) on the VPI forum and here that are not based on any fact or practical experience. I think he should leave it alone until he has. I've tried some of his suggestions and solutions. In my experience with some of it, besides being more elaborate and time consuming, the results were less that what I get with the simple Rush Paul method. I'm just sayin'.

If Neil were to buy a Vacuum RCM and a US RCM and used his magic to invent a technique for them I am all ears. I would be very interested in that, but trying based on his description, with no practical experience, I hesitate to go down that rabbit hole.

btw, Anybody heard from Rush?

Thanks. Len

@whart I agree with you about Neil Antonin. He has developed a very good manual cleaning method which no doubt does an excellent job. But if you have many records to clean it will take forever.

About five years ago I hooked up with Rush Paul, via the VPI forum, whose technique for US cleaning you also published. The biggest expense of that method is the Vacuum RCM. I use a VPI MW-1.

Neils statements about US and Vacuum RCMs are based on readings, not practical experience. With all of the research that went into the chemical formulations before Rush settled on his mix was done with chemists and audio engineers. I am skeptical that Neil can provide any more favorable methods for the US/Vacuum RCM technique.without that experience.

His tome contains a wealth of knowledge and has helped me better understand the value of the Rush Paul method. So far Triton-X100, which Neil said was being taken off the market years ago, is still available and all of the other ingredients are easily obtainable, even the 200 proof ethyl alcohol, which Neil said is not available. That has fueled my skepticism.

My system is very unforgiving to record noise. I went through half a dozen different methods. Since I have used this technique I am pleased to report complete silence with a black background.

’Nuf said.

@antinn Sorry I offended you. I'm sure because you have written books, manuals and patents you're well known as an expert submarine tube cleaner. Now it is good that somebody has written something definitive, but not conclusive. That information was never in one place before.

I was merely stating, as I have before, my system works. I tried your Tergitol, it didn't work as well. That's why they added the second Tergitol, to make it the same as Triton X. As a matter of fact I have tried all of the chemicals that you recommend in my US tank and not one gave me the same results I get currently. I also used them manually before a vacuum, still not as good. And, I have zero damage and sonic loss.

The problem is removing tobacco smoke residue from the vinyl after it has set for 25-50+ years. My US system doesn't always get it the first time. I've found using the enzyme that comes with the Walker 4-step system will do a decent job if applied properly. I doubt yours does better.

You seem to be very sensitive about criticism.The fact is there are many ways, as you state, to clean records. Just look on YouTube, there are some crazy people out there..Everyone talks about your stuff as the be all end all for record cleaning. It's just a long tome with a lot of chemistry, that few people understand. I'm glad people are happy with it. I'm glad you're happy with it.

Happy Holidays

@lewm If you were a smoker in the 1950's (I wasn't) you filled the room with cigarette smoke. Have you ever seen the windows of a smokers car and the stench that it produces. That stench doesn't go away. The same thing happens in a smoke filled room, it eventually smells like an ashtray. I ask you where do you think that smoke goes while playing a record?

My father and mother were both heavy smokers. Our whole house smelled like an ashtray. He would sit 10 feet from his record player and smoke like a chimney. You don't think he tainted his records? You obviously haven't been around much.

@antinn I’m not going to argue with you about chemicals and processes. As I have said repeatedly that your system must work for a few records at a time. You yourself have stated that. It’s when you try to scale that to 20 or more records it becomes a formidable task, even when using US. In the research I did, reading the multitude to threads as I am sure did as well, I was trying to overcome the fear of ruining a record while having the desire to eliminate the noise I had from smoke and other dirt. You were probably still scrapping crud off of submarine oxygen tubes at that time.

I know that you are the de-facto resident expert, as no one has challenged you. But you’re just a guy like me trying to enjoy his records. I’ve written and published technical guides and manuals that were distributed world-wide by The Coca-Cola Company. I have enough humility to not think that is a big deal.

My cartridge, a Sound-Smith Heliios, is a very sensitive and linear device. I went through many different systems and chemicals for cleaning with poor results until I started using the Walker 4-step, then the Rush Paul system. I don’t hear any noise from the older used records. The blacks are blacker and deep. That was my goal and objective. When I used your chemicals either manually or in the US I did not get the same results. Also, I did.not need special assistance amounting to hours to get it right.

I am not criticizing your system. It simply does not work for me. Don’t be so sensitive, show some humility and accept that this boy ain’t gonna buy it.