2. amps-preamps
  3. 1428160381

Clayton Audio Class A amps. Need amp advice

Hi Guys,

I am looking to change my amps and for a few reasons.

First because I just upgraded my DAC from the great PS Audio DirectStream to the incredible Bricasti M1 DSD USB DAC. I love the Bricasti and it has shown that in my system it could offer me more with a more resolving and neutral amp IMO.

I am currently am using the wonderful sounding CJ Premier 12 mono tube amps. I love them and tubes in general but my speakers are the great Ascendo C8 Renaissance and look to present a somewhat benign load being 88 efficient and 6ohm but they are unique and have an internal firing 21 cm Kevlar Bass driver that is great but stubborn and the speakers I think will really shine with a iron fist control of that driver.

I love tubes, always have and always will but I grown tires of a flabby bottom which is exasperated by a unique and somewhat difficult to grip bass driver set up I spoke about above.

I want an amp that can give me as much tube sound as possible but with Grip and bottom end. I know this is a lot to ask for in the used $5k to $7k price range.

I have read and it seem like the Clayton offer exactly what I am looking for but wanted to hear from some of you guys if anyone has ever heard them or know of them or anything. Any info would really be appreciated. Here is the info on my speakers and I will also list the rest of my system in case you think that is helpful. Thanks

C8 Renaissance
Technical Data
Principle
• Three-Way with SASB bass unit (TOS Off)
(current damped outer driver with semi symmetrical band pass)
• Four-Way with SASB bass unit (TOS On)
Dimensions (W/H/D)
• 28 / 80 / 40 (without Base)
• 28 / 108 / 40 (with Base)
Weight
35 kg
Frequency Range
29 Hz (-3 dB) – 32.000 Hz
Power Rating
350 W Program (min)
Impedance
6 Ohm
Sensivity
88 dB / 1W/m
Outer Chassis (COAX)
• 25 mm Neodymium-fabric-tweeter
• 18 cm Woofer with XP cone
Inner Chassis
• 21 cm Chassis, Kevlar cone
TOS Chassis
• Ribbon-tweeter
TOS Function
• switchable (TOS Unit - Dipole AN / AUS)
Sockets
• Single / BiWiring Base
Dimensions (W/H/D)
28 / 18 / 40 cm
Weight
11 kg

Ascendo C-8 Renaissance Speakers (Germany) Speaker
Purist Audio Design Corvus Praesto Revision 2.5m Bi-Wire Speaker cable
Darwin TRUTH Pure Silver Reference 1 Meter RCA Interconnect
Darwin TRUTH Pure Silver Reference 1 Meter RCA Interconnect
Bricasti M1 USB / DSD / Volume Control DAC (New) DA converter
Tellurium Q BLACK DIAMOND Reference USB Cable
Decware ZSTAGE External Triode Output StageTelefunken ECC801S
Audio Research REFERENCE 1 MK II w/Rhodium IEC/NOS Tubes Tube preamp
PS Audio PowerPlant Premier AC Regenerator
Conrad Johnson Premier 12 Mono's 140 Watts Tung-Sol KT120's Tube amp
Salamander Amplifier Stands (2) Synergy System AV Furniture Stand
BMI Shark Jeweler Grade Platinum 9 AWG AC Power Cable
Mad Scientist PC-NEO with Power Purifier 11 AWG Power Cable
Sablon Audio Petite Corona 2.0M 7 AWG AC Power Cable
JPS Labs The Power AC+ 2M 8 AWG AC Power Cable
Synergistic Research Labs Tesla Series SE T1 AC Power Cable
Synergistic Research Labs Tesla Series T1 AC Power Cable
PS Audio Noise Harvester (5) Converts noise to light
OYAIDE RI Beryllium Power Outlets (2)
Blue Circle Audio The Yalu Balula Industrial Surge/Spike Protection
JPLAY v5.2 hi-end audio player turns PC into a digital transport.
Fidelizer Pro Version 6.1
JRiver Media Center 19 Music Software
128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xfsmithjack

Showing 6 responses by mitch2

mitch2
3,717 posts
 
Frank, make sure you are getting M300s that have had the PS upgrade. I believe the retail price of those amps is actually up around $16,500 for a pair that has had the upgrade. If someone is telling you $13,500, those may not be upgraded amps. I recommend contacting Wilson to confirm the amps have been upgraded, based on their Serial numbers..
On another topic, I believe the CJ LP140s are supposed to be sonically different from your Model 12s. Another reason to listen to them before buying, if possible. Maybe LP140 owners could weigh in.
Finally, if there is no deadline on your decision, I recommend trying a free audition of the Ncore amps in your system. You might be surprised.
mitch2
3,717 posts
 
Is Frank not planning to drive the amps from a single-ended preamp? I thought that was why he was talking about adapters. If he will drive the amps directly from the Bricasti, or from a balanced preamp, then you are absolutely correct, he should simply use balanced cables.
mitch2
3,717 posts
 
selling dealer said those will work fine
He is wrong. These amps need a balanced signal that you will not get through an adaptor.

In addition to the Jensen transformers that Al mentions above, and that I used, K&K sells a Lundahl version that plugs directly into the XLR input on the amp. Both should work fine, but the Lundahl version would negate the need for a second set of very short XLR ICs. If you do get the Jensen version, get two of the mono style (PI-RX) so you can sit one next to each amp. You will then need two quite short XLR to XLR ICs to run from the transformers to your amps. I have a pair if you are interested. Otherwise, try the Lundahl version that doesn't need the second IC.

Also, there are impedance matching issues with the transformers. The issue benefits from the Clayton's high'ish 100K ohm input impedance but you should still try to use a preamp that has a low output impedance. I was mostly using a Tom Evans preamp with an output impedance of less than 100 ohms but I did also use a Lamm LL2 and it sounded very good as well. If specific questions about matching with your gear, talk to the folks at Jensen or K&K.
mitch2
3,717 posts
 
Is Frank not planning to drive the amps from a single-ended preamp? I thought that was why he was talking about adapters. If he will drive the amps directly from the Bricasti, or from a balanced preamp, then you are absolutely correct, he should simply use balanced cables.
mitch2
3,717 posts
 
That is good advice Bill K.

I owned the M300s for several years and sold them last year. I currently own the Atsah NC1200 monos and a very tricked out McCormack/SMc DNA-2 LAE. So, I have had Class A, Class D and very good Class A/B amps all within a year. They are all very close in power ratings and not far separated in price. I still can't decide whether to keep the Class D monos or the Class A/B amp.

If I still owned the M300s the only thing that would change is that I wouldn't be able to decide between three amps, instead of between two amps. All of these are excellent sounding amplifiers, near the top of their class, and I suspect I would be happy with any of them but, they do sound different from each other. Listening with your own speakers is a really good idea to be sure of what you are getting.
mitch2
3,717 posts
 
Can anyone else familiar with Clayton chime in
Three types of noise I have heard from amplifiers include transformer hum, 60 Hz buzz/hum, and high frequency hiss.

Transformer hum will occur with toroidal transformers that are subjected to DC on the power lines. The larger the transformer, the louder the hum. Plitron makes a LoNoise transformer that is expensive but will largely eliminate this hum. The Claytons use two large transformers per amplifier and are indeed susceptible to that type of hum when DC is present. DC on the power line is not that uncommon an occurrence and can result from a variety of factors, that may or may not be associated with things going on inside of your residence, as others here have pointed out.

The 60Hz buzz/hum is, in my understanding, most often a grounding issue. The Claytons do not play well with anything but a balanced signal. Forget using rca/XLR adaptors or the Claytons will buzz like crazy. I got around that issue by using Jensen input transformers to convert the single-ended signal from a Tom Evans Vibe into a balanced signal.

Hiss from the tweeter is related to the amplifier's noise floor, amplifier gain and sensitivity of the speakers.

Clayton implemented a power supply upgrade that includes new toroidal transformers, and a rebuild of the power supply. Before having that upgrade performed, my M300s were quite noisy but, after the upgrade, not so much. However, they were never as dead nuts quiet as my current Ncore amps or my DNA-2 amplifier. Neither of those amplifiers can ever be heard through my speakers when they are at idle. The DNA-2 has a very large toroidal transformer which is quiet most of the time although, on occasion, a very slight mechanical hum can be heard right next to the amp, but not at all through the speakers. The Claytons never achieved this level of quiet, although they did sound good with music playing, as do the other two (quieter) amps mentioned.
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