Sbank / Spencer
No doubt - I agree :) !!! |
Jmcgrogan2
Thanks for the response and in that review and all the others they totally gush over these speakers and say the bass is amazing in these speakers. They actually get a lot of accolades for their deep, controlled, tuneful and musical bass but your right they don't have that true high end Wilson, Magico, Focal bass slam but heck 95% of the speakers out there under $12,000 don't have that. I thought about the speakers but before these I was on the Merry go round and had Kharma CRM 3.2FE, Wilson Sohpia 2, Wilson Watt/Puppy 6, Revel Studio, Martinlogan Vantage then Spire, Sonus Faber Cremora Auditor, Merin TSM-MMI not in that order but to name a few and in all honesty none were even close to these speakers. These are the best speakers I have ever owned and by far its not even close in my system IMO. They really are great and they resolve and image with a sophistication that was a total game changer for me. Its just after I got the Bricasti the sound improved so much I could then sense / feel there was more there and that stubborn for tubes critical Kevlar driver needs more grip I can feel it and I think then the rest will fill out even more and blossom but at what cost? That is why I am reaching out to my Agon comrades. I am trading my amps as part of the deal and really would love and get as much feedback before I take the big plunge. I have a friend that keeps pushing and telling me to do what ever I can to try and get my hands on the Ayre AX-5 Integrated. I never even thought of that and still have my sights set on the Clayoton audio M300 monos but what do you guys think? Is that Ayre integrated that good? Its tough if I give my beloved tubes which I am willing to do I hope to get overall better sound... |
Thanks I do like them a lot but I have only heard so many different kinds so who knows there def could be better I totally see what your saying for sure. That though is still in my mind. I love tubes there is no doubt. There is a set of CJ LP140m on here that's a much newer pair of CJ mono's but I was thinking there would not be too much difference but maybe I am wrong on that and the new CJ could be a good option. That's what I thought about the Ayre Integrated but he swears its the best sounding amp under $20k bar none. He is so dead set serious on it. I would be trading my some gear and not a lot of money as I already own the gear. I might need to think more about those newer CJ's... |
Knghifi
You are right the M300 sure did have some serious hum problems. 600 watt pure class into 4/ohm is a crazy amount of juice of class a and requires a behemoth power supply.
A few years back they fixed it and offered a retro upgrade and the pair I am fixing to buy were manufactured with the fix in place.
They are big, heavy, plain looking, run hot but I am told have all the power to get the most out of my speakers and have a lot of the tube sound but I am worried will miss the tubes too much but hoping the trade off is that they offer so much more on the other side the trade off is worth it. There is a pair of CJ LP140M tube amps that will cost about the same from a trade deal as the Clayton M300 monos.
Thanks so much for the comments and recommendations.
So what one would you guys choose between these two if you were me with my system and had my situation:
Both retail about the same and trade deal is about the same:
Clayton M300 monos 300watt class a ss
or
C J LP140M monos 140watt tubes
I really appreciate. I have looked into and read everyone's input and would love any more recommendations and feedback I can get. For this is the best place for me to get feedback. I am doing a trade deal far away and there is no chance to hear either in my system so my gut, brain and your feedback is what I am going to roll with. Thanks so much for all thehelp guys / gals !!! |
Onhwy61
I always used the Decware in the past with all my gear it just made such and improvement. I did tons of A/B and couldn't get it out of my system but since I got the Bricasti it takes too much away. I love it and I can recommend to anyone but with my Bricasti it sounds wonderful but adds a bit too much and with my tubes I tried with or with out pre/direct and all the combo and with the Bricasti and my amps I don't use it. It is nice to know if I go SS it injects a bunch of tube sound if needed.
Thanks |
Soix
Thanks so much!
Real nice of you to say : ) |
Lloydelee21
Good idea i never thought of upgrading my 12's. |
Tfl303
Could you tell me more. Do they have that real 3d tube you are there sound that is so hard for SS to pull of like tubes. I understand the image density and richness and depth of SS just can't match tubes but if it has the real enveloping, realness that tubes do without trying to go with the other strengths i would think the M300 is a total done deal. When I had the BAT VK600SE and Sophia 2 it had all the ss strngth but it just was flat and did not wrap around or feel real and its sterile and it made me give up too much and I don't want that so this is the only thing that is my main worry with a ss amp... |
Zd542
Flying out of control?? How do you come up with that. Who says that? I have it boiled down to 2 amps and am asking for other members opinions and if others offer new other ideas then great I would love to hear them.
I am buying used gear from people with mutiple trades involved that are over a 1000 miles away. Asking for advice I would think is a smart and controlled way of getting more information. I have already read everything available on both the amps and am hoping to reach out to the Agon gang to get some more info.
That would be great if I could just go to a dealer and listen and buy new amps like I am sure you are referring to but don't have that luxury. If I buy something and I hate it then I'll flip not a life or death deal either way but just trying to get some more info to make a better inform order decision. Everything I read about the Clayton says it is a uber powerful pure class a true top of the top ss amp that does more for a tube lover than any other ss out there. If that's the case that sign me up I'm in but the newer CJ are a the safer bet and nothing is free. I have found the bigger the risk to more opportunity for upside. My problem is a May dislike the class or the newer CJ is more of the same so asking for more info is what I am hoping for... |
Acendo recommends Behold and CAT which are incredible but way way out of my league other than those they recommend SS in the best quality and most power you can afford. They say that the more power the better even thought they are not hogs just different. Like all the manufactures they say they work great with tubes but all most all speaker makers say that Kind of thing. They are 88 sensitive and are 6ohm which doesn't seem like the toughest load and there is no crazy I mprediance drops either but the bass driver is not seen its inside the cabinet and pointing straight up and it fires upwards inside the cabinet and all you see on the front of the speaker is a big port whole where the bass comes from. Quite different and they have some of the best imaging and staging and my guess is that there is more there. With the proper grip on that 21 cm Kevlar driver which has these speakers go down to 29 I think it / they can go to another level. Its what I am doing asking about the Clayton. Pure Class A no A/B at all but A all the way and that is tube sounding and offers 300/8ohm and 600/4ohm so not positive but at my speakers 6/ohm I think they are at 500 Pure Class A vs CJ tubes from the late ninety's which offer 140 watts I think is a huge change but hoping to hear from others. Hoping tomorrow morning when I wake up I can decide between Clayton M300 or CJ LP140m which is a modern CJ amp that some on here say then newer ones do much better on bottom and are much more neutral. Any feedback is welcomed!!!! Thx |
Typing on my phone sorry about all the type o's : ) |
Zd542
" There's plenty of ways to reduce risk. Buying blind by reading reviews and listening to strangers in internet chat rooms is no way to go about it "
This is an audio forum. We talk audio in the amp section here we talk amps. If I had the doe I would love to go with dealers and take their stuff home to try out in my system but I would only do that if I was going to buy something from them at some point and I can't. I am not going to take loaners home from dealers to hear them and find the stuff I like and then go look for it used and not buy from them. I have too much respect and admiration for my dealer friends. They got it tough enough as it is with out someone tying up their gear from a real potential buyer. The 30 tryout internet buy with returns are great too but mostly offered only for buying new and I don't have the doe for new. I don't really have the financial ability to reduce the risk and buy from them so I have no choice but to fly blind. I am flying totally blind based on reviews and talking on this forum. I can go blind and shoot from the hip or do what I am doing try to get some additional information like I am.
I have been lucky and bought some amazing sounding gear that I love that I bought from recommendations what you call strangers and I call my fellow Agon comrades. I guess its all how you look it.
Some of us have to do it like this but I know its not ideal and at some point I am going to mess up and it will prob leave a mark but my gut, this forum and research has worked ok so far but the odds I am sure will come in at some point.
Wish I could do it the other way but its not possible for me right now. Thats why the ARC, CJ, BAT, VAC,PASS,MAC,AYRE,CARY,VTL,CAT,LAMM to name a few are always safe bets and can always flip/resell but I am reaching out here because I am ready to pull the trigger on the Clayton M300 which is a sort of rare, kind of odd big block cube amp that every single person that has heard them say they are truly, world call amazing. I was set to buy a pair of Lamm 2.1 Hybrid mono's and a person whose opinion I appreciate told me those are great amps but the Clayton's are better. A lot better.
Tfl303 above just said the Clayton kills the CAT JL2. The CAT JL2 I have heard and it is much better than my CJ's. Imagine if I could get an amp that kills an amp that is much better than my currant amp?
Well I would love that! I am not looking for that or expecting that but if I can make a blind trade/purchase for an amp that is a much better match for my speakers and overall is a real nice SQ upgrade then that would be fantastic. What makes it tougher and is a big reason for this post is because the amp I am considering buying is not only going from tubes to ss but from a specialty, small, boutique company that specializes in pure Class A, a brand that is not real well known and is kinda plain, utilitarian looking (eye is in the beholder), heavy, runs real hot, gobbles electricity and is balanced only but seems to have a rabid following and is super well respected by those that have heard/own know of them. They describe them as one of the very best amps there are. Very refined, very sophisticated and a true top of list sounding amp. For me I can overlook the things I stated above if the sound is as good as they say so would love to hear more from those they have heard Claytons.
If it doesn't work out I am back to the drawing board and looking to flip some amps that are not in that real quick selling group listed above and is why the CJ LP140M keeps popping in my head, that and I know I love tubes just think i may be getting more of what I already have... Don't really want to do that so the Clayton's are how I am leaning and Any and all feedback and advice is really appreciated. |
Jmcgrogan2 thanks so much! I appreciate it. I think Tfl303 was kinda kidding a bit there and being facetious. Also I have read others in the Clayton camp use that kind of over emphasis talk for effect when comparing them to others. I think if we apply a bit of deductive reasoning knowing they are being facetious a bit and using limited wording they are trying to drive the point home that these are really underrated amps that need to be heard to appreciate. With their power most all speakers are at their disposal and the people familiar with them just gush over them. I have also read even with the hum fix there is still slight bit of it there if you get up real close it them just because I don't think you get 600watt / 4ohm in Pure Class A without any of it. That is why most are 30 or 50 or 60 watts. 300/600 is really not common. Thanks so much... Can anyone else familiar with Clayton chime in and offer some input to help us clarify some more. Thx |
Charles1dad
That is kind of what I am afraid of..lol. As of now I certainly prefer and value higher the 3d 3 dimensional, liquid and organic sound over bass slam but I have never really heard this good of an SS amp and what intrigues me is the Clayton's camp claim that it gives at least enough of that 3 dimensional, liquid and organic sound that the increase in other levels will mean it won't be missed nearly as much as others per say and the overall SQ will be much better. I think maybe with my amps now I rely on that 3 dimensional, liquid and organic sound because its really most of what it offers. If I can get enough of that dimensional, liquid and organic sound to be happy and still get all the other stuff and get more out of my speakers I will be happy but heck I may def be asking too much from a SS amp. That is why I am leaning toward such a different ss amp. The pure Class A 300/600 is not normal so I guess i am hoping for a non normal effect and I may have a shot from a non normal amp but I appreciate all of you you guy's help and can see where I may be looking for too much out of the tube sound out of these Claytons. Man I wish I could hear them first. You guys are def helping me develop my thought and feel for this though so thanks and the more the better.
Agape126 thanks.
I owned Manly 30 watt mono and in some ways those were the best sounding amps I have ever owned. The EL84 is the best sounding tube IMO but just not enough power. I moved to the Snapper and really like them with my Martinlogan Spire but when I switched to the Wilson Sophia 2's they couldn't push them properly. At the time I was in a big room 22x22 with 16 foot cathedral ceilings. I found my CJ amps to be much more powerful than the Snappers. I would love to buy the Manley 250 and would today if there was a pair I could make a nice trade deal on but no go. I tried but I love Manley. Thx
|
Thanks Rich !!! The seller is a dealer and he told me the amps were made after the update was created and then put in all the newly manufactured amps after he came out with the retro update. He also said they went for $16,500.00 but the Clayton distributor / retailer TRI Audio web site says $13,500.00?? The dealer did provide me with the serial numbers so a call to them is def something I am going to do tomorrow. Can I get his info from that website? TRI Audio Marketing? Thanks again so much I really wish I could hear them first but it just doesn't seem possible. I would love to hear from CJ owners that would be great! Thanks
Zd542 At $16,500 I guess I could get a better car or plane..lol
Again its a trade deal and those are the retail numbers for sake of comparison but ya new they went for a decent amount of coin and even used with a trade its still a pretty significant purchase. Both amps I am sure are outstanding just different and im still wrangling with it. This afternoon I was ready for the CJ's and tonight back to Clayton's? Is not a painful or stressful thing is just hemming hawing a bit and waiting for my gut to step up :)
Any other info from the agon folks would be appreciated. Thx |
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Denon1
Thanks so much I have heard those are another great CLASS Amp that has the great tube sound but with the grip I need. Awesome to know they sound good with my speakers. My speakers are pretty rare and this is great info. Thank you I am going to check right on that lead. Thanks again
Bill_k
That makes sense...lol. Just don't have the time and they are far away and not sure in another system I would get the info I want/need but I am in full agreement that hearing first is certainly the way to go with no doubt if possible within reason just not in my odd case. Thanks guys and love all the great info and idea's. Keep em coming if you can please. Thanks |
04-11-15: Jmcgroga
Thanks
On the Claytons M300 monos they are Balanced XLR input only!
I don't have any balanced interconnects yet and as we all know real good ones are quite expensive. More than my pre I'm trying to hold onto. I have the real nice Caras Clear XLR to RCA adapters and the selling dealer said those will work fine but read elsewhere that if I use adapters they make a wicked hum? Anyone know if this is the case or do you think the adapters will work fine? Any input would really be appreciated!! Thanks so much !!! |
Awesome info guys thanks.
I will ideally like to drive direct form Bricasti and I understand that buying Balanced interconnects is the best way and I will prob at some point but they are pretty expensive. Also, the Bricasti and my preamp are balanced but I have $2500 for 2 interconnects and the balanced version is about $3k. I know I can and prob still sell my singles and by balanced but its a factor.
I have bought and sold thousands and thousands of dollars worth of doe on different speaker cables, interconnects and power cables and could never just buy blue jean interconnects till I could afford more.
I have found in my experience that interconnects have a huge - huge impact on the sound quality. Huge. I know tons of people don't believe in cables and don't want to go there but I am not one of them. I worked really hard at getting my cable to where I have them and prefer not have to get back on that merry go round if can be avoided. Prob enough in itself to not go with the Claytons.
My Darwin Truth IC's out performed Nordost Valhalla's and Cardas Gold Reference and Cardas Clear and there were tons of lesser ones in there both these where the ones I liked the best before they were beaten out straight up by the outstanding Darwin's.
So do you guys don't think there is a shot of rolling with just XLR adapters using the Bricasti direct to the Claytons. Looks like a good amount of work is going to be needed to use these amps in my system does't that seem correct? As always thanks guys.
Was hoping might be able to keep everything the same and plug away with the XLR to RCA Cardas Clear adapters that are good quality that I used with a BAT VK600SE a year or so ago that worked nice. Thx |
04-15-15: Onhwy61: your right prob could very well be opening another can of worms. Ugghhh
Hey Spencer,
Ya struggling a bit here for sure... lol
If I can't find the right amp and not sure I can then it may just be easier to get a better matching set of speakers.
I know it seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water but my CJ's are not SETs they push out 140 watts and sound just like butta. The grip I want to control that fat, stubborn, internal Kevlar driver is gonna prob cost me my rich, lush, fatty, warm enveloping, 3d sound stage that is awfully addicting. Once into big tubes that sound this nice its hard to give up but its all about give and take unless you real long coin then you can have it all which I don't have... My bud has a super neutral, newer, ss based, higher end rig and we both agree that other than that dang bass driver my sounds wonderful more musical and really to state is plainly better. It doesn't tic all the little boxes like his but the whole seems to add to more than the sum of its parts. I guess I need to give some credit of my likeable system to my Bricasti, CJ's, Darwin, PAD and not over credit Ascendo.
Might just say pull the trigger and keep my amps and trade my Ascendo's grab a pair of EgglestonWorks Andra III and be done with it. My other work bud drives his an 80 watt tube amp and they sound amazing. 8ohm, 88 efficient my do the trick... Atleast I won't have to mess with my dang interconnects again...lol. Ya I am all over the place but just don't want to screw it up... |
I have a Clayton S40 on demo from a local dealer and it is awesome. Man I never knew a SS amp could this much like a tube amp but better. It has a factory modded power supply that has been beefed up so that may help it but this Clayton gear is pretty excellent. A little dark and maybe just a tad rolled off at the tip-pity top but still a refined and very pretty amp... It has killer PRAT to boot. Very fast as well and charging but smooth. |
Just listened to an older Krell KSA 200S amp.
Holly Smokes... Wow, I have never heard a Krell before. I thought they were cold and sterile and etched and fatiguing and flat and 2 dimensional and boring amps?
That's not what I heard at all. It had incredible control over the woofers like nothing I have ever heard and it sounds great. Smooth as can be, no etch or fatigue at all. If I had a complaint it would be that its maybe a little bit too dark sounding kinda like a BAT amp. Heck it has less bite than my CJ Tube amp and that says a ton. My CJ is the Premier 12 from old but not the too old school but still warm and romantic school.
Whats the deal here?? I really have a lot to learn about SS amps. They have a real bad rap out there. Anyone else hear this amp? Am I wrong? I think I like SS amps maybe ones just a little bit brighter and sunnier with a little more bite up top and 3d and i'm all in. Is that a Pass or a newer Krell or what?
I am kinda in no mans land here being a loyal tube guy that flabby bottom just got to me. I have never heard what a speaker sounds like when it is completely and utterly subordinate to the amp. The Krell grabs the speaker by its throat and throws it down and puts its boot on it neck and it is game over! Pretty cool, never heard that been busy in the land of warm and fuzzy with tubby bass but I would love to get an amp with bit more like a mentioned above with this type of muscle...
What do you guys think??? Any ideas... |
I loved the S40 and would have bought it but after listening after a couple days a channel went out. Kind of stinks because the amp was just back from the factory and had full rebuilt and improved special power supply at the factory with the same power supply of the 200 and it was great. It was sweet like a tube amp, also a bit dark but I liked it a lot and was a happy camper with it. I went down during a few day audition and i never heard back from the dealer. It may still be out getting fixed he said he will me when it gets back. The Krell was a couple towns away so I wanted to try it. Love to try local stuff when I can because so rare. oh I like the S40 better but it couldn't grab the drivers like that freek Krell. That said overall the S40 is more refined and more up my alley. If this Krell was a little less dark and had more of the refinement of the S40 that would be my best amp. I still prefer tubes no doubt but with the kind of speakers I am using to get this type of tube performance its very expensive.
I would love to try the Merrill Audio class d amps. They use that new amazing modular Hypecore thing class d that is supposed to the best new tech in all of audio for amps. Expensive though also. Trying to stay in that $3kish used price range for now. I am def making a speaker change. I love my speaker but to properly drive them I need the type of amp that I don'y love or have grown tired of trying. |
What do you guys think about the guy that builds the Hypex Ncore amps James Romeyn.
They seem like a great deal and are pretty much the same as the $4800 Thor from Merrill just without the fancy case. If these sound the same or almost as good as the Merrill Thors these seem like one the best amp deals going? Would love your advice. They used the exact same amps and power supply and internal wireing just different cash and maybe terminations. They have crazy power and everyone says they sound amazing. Super quite, crazy powerful with super low distortion. Paired with a great source and real hi quality cabling and a very high quality speaker these seem like it could be special? Am I wrong? Thanks |
Guys - Thanks so much for all of the great advice, ideas and feedback! Really - great stuff and I appreciate it! Well Here We Go - talk - about doing a total 360 - and going in a total other direction.
I am one of those guys that reads a lot and listens as much as I can to as much as I with as little free time as I have. I try to make calculated, smart, informed choices and allow my head to have a lot input in most cases but in this case I kind of shot from the hip and went with my gut / heart! Plenty of reading and some listening was def involved but it was a pretty big plunge so to speak I think.
I posted some of this info on my DAC thread but I wanted to share with you guys as it is an amp and speaker change that we were all talking about and wanted to share my change of direction with you.
Gone now are my preamps (ARC, BAT) my beloved speakers (Ascendo's) and amps (CJ's - Krell).
I have pulled the trigger on these new speakers and amps. Would love any feedback, recommendations or criticism's. I took a pretty big chance I think because my new speakers and amps are so different and such a change from where I was. They should be here later this week or early next week!
As yo know I was struggling to find the right amps for my speakers to the point of then getting into swapping speakers.
In a nutshell What I wanted was real driver control with grip, resolution, detail and great transparency that one gets from a high quality SS amp yet I also still wanted the beauty I had grown to accustomed to from my CJ tubes, the warmth and enveloping 3-D realness of tubes. I love tubes and did not want to live without that essential ingredient but I no longer could bear the trade offs. The slow and rolled off top and bottom with loosey, goosey bottom end. The 140 watt tube amp that was driving a 88 db efficient speaker with a tough Kevlar bass driver. Was I going to change speaker or amp or both.
My stated goal at this point was to try and find a speaker amp combo that could give me my tube glory and beauty I have grown so fond of but with Grip, Speed, Detail and transparency without having to spend an exorbitant amount on a monster tube amp.
I was first leaning toward Class A monster SS amps which started with this thread but not matter how good a SS amp is it is still not tubes. How do I get both. How did I get what I am after. I am not sure I have pulled it off or not but I took a shot on what I think maybe the solution.
I just went hole hog and pulled the Trigger and made the "HUGE CHANGE"!
Again, my new speakers and amps should be here later this week or early next week.
For the first time I am purchasing amps that were specifically designed and made for my speakers by the same designer from the same company. Something new for me!
That said my new speakers and a new amp are from a real small boutique company in India that I hope will allow me to pull this off:
Rethm Saadhana Speakers (2015):
The speakers are single / driver / high efficiency / wide banders with a self powered built in bass module.
Here is the info:
Rethm Saadhana Speakers (2015):
103db, 18hz-20khz, 8ohm
Minimum amplification power: 2 wpc
Full Range - Horn loaded labyrinth:(7" – 4") length
Full range driver: Custom designed 7 inch paper cone w/whizzer w/ Custom designed Self driven bass modules: 3 Bass Drivers per enclosure
3 x 6.5 inch paper cone
Sealed Isobaric chamber:
Bass labyrinth:( 4' – 8" )
w/ one monobloc per enclosure
FET amplifier
Max. output: 210 wpc @ 4 ohms
Dimensions: H x D x W : 3'-5" )x( 2'-4 ½" )x( 8.5" )
Weight per enclosure: 88 lbs
Here is the matching amp that comes in 2 boxes. 1 - box holds all the tubes and the other holds the power supply tethered by a cable. They look like mono blocks but are attached by the cable and it is an integrated, stereo amp.
Rethm Gaanam Integrated amp.
They don't list all the specs per say but here some info if your interested. It interested me enough to order these brand new speakers and amps and we have all chatted a lot so I wanted to share in the event your interested.
This is a pretty unique amp that was again voiced and designed specifically to match the speakers perfectly.
Here is the designer talking about designing the amp.
The criteria we started with were the following:
1. It had to be between 10 and 20 wpc.
2. It had to be Single Ended pure class A.
We use a unique circuit for the power amp section whereby the ONLY tubes are the output tubes. No gain stage tubes, no buffer tubes, no driver tubes. The preamp section provides more than adequate gain, and instead of driver tubes, we have small, custom designed "driver transformers". This enabled us to get a beautiful sound that had all the warmth and dimensionality that makes valves so unique, while enabling a clarity and dynamic that is not often found in traditional valve amplifiers. To enhance control, we decided on a solid state buffer in this amplifier. We also have zero feedback.
After much experimenting with several valve types, we settled on a single-ended configuration using the 6C33C valve. It produces 16 wpc. The 6C33C valve is, on technical spec's itself, an amazing valve. It has an extremely high Trans-conductance value ( in excess of 30 mA/V -- as compared to the 12.5 of a KT 120 ) which facilitates much better current flow. And, it has an amazingly low Internal Resistance ( 130 ohms -- as compared to 3000 ohms on a KT 120 ) which is almost comparable to solid-state devices! This enables a much higher speed of signal voltage transfer. It also has very low anode voltages ( 120 v -- as compared to most valves that go from a few hundred volts to in excess of 1000 v in the case of the 845 valve ) -- which makes it a much safer device.
The preamp section uses two 6922 valves, one per channel, and uses an extremely simple circuit. The power supply is choke regulated, and here again, we have zero feedback.
We also get all our transformers (the output transformers, driver transformers, power transformer and choke) cryogenically treated as we see a substantial improvement in performance with greater transparency, detail retrieval and delicacy to the reproduction.
Wish me luck guys. I hope this takes my rig to the next level.
Again, Any advice or feedback, criticism or anything is always really appreciated.
I know this started as a Clayton thread but you guys have been great and I wanted to share with you the direction I chose and why? Its scary and exciting at the same time and I think its part of what makes this hobby great!
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Hi Jmcgrogan2
Thanks so much for the response!
An acquaintance of a former co-worker friend was kind enough to let us listen to them but they were the last / older version of the Saadhana speakers sometimes labeled as the V2. I also got to hear the newer / current version of the model down from the Saadhana, the Rethm Maarga. I liked the Maarga A LOT and proceeded to learn all I could about this company and the designer. I learned that all of the new Rethm speakers, the current models have their own, new custom drivers and I took the shot.
After I did a lot of research and a lot of thinking I realized what I was really looking / hoping for? It is the baseline for my approach to a new speaker / amp combo search.
What I was / am hoping for is (and it is a tall order for sure):
Ultra high, pin-point clarity with reach out and touch, precise resolution is something I would love. That microscopic type of resolution and clarity that provides a real uber defined sound stage and 3d images with image separation and delineation only this type of resolution can provide. The problem is to acquire this level of clarity, resolution and neutrality one must usually also have to accept a somewhat sterile, semi-etched or analytical or non-musical presentation.
My hope is for a speaker / amp combo to approach and blend this uber level of clarity and resolution with a smooth, liquid and tube-like natural presentation that is relaxed yet also pops. One that is not etched or analytical and is free from listener fatigue.
To get all of the above it will certainly need to be a creative and outside the box, unique speaker and amp combo? One that smartly and successfully blends a bunch of different technologies and topologies into a diverse yet synergistic package. Something like the mixture of tubes and solid state and Cyro treatments with high efficiency single drivers that run wide open that have build in bass modules that support from bottom up with custom band-pass and volume controls for different room tuning to even have a chance at attaining even part of what I am after.
Now I understand no speaker is perfect and no speaker can do everything for everyone. Some of the things I was willing to give up in my search were huge SBL's or super loud rock, grudge or Techno or super complex large and loud orchestra music. I want to rock out sometimes but it is not a DNA prerequisite. I don't need all word slam either but I am after full range speakers that convey it all. The bass matters and a lot it just doesn’t have to be high end Magico, Wilson, Focal, Raidho bass slam.
I want Full, Rich, Fast, NO FLAB, Accurate, Tuneful, Detailed bass with genuine feel that supports the rest of the entire frequency spectrum. I am serious about bass I just don’t need the very last word in all world slam. I am asking for a lot and maybe I will be let down. I am sort of hoping for my cake and hoping to eat it too but why not. It is yet to be seen if this is realistic or not because as we all know they need to be in your own room in your system listening to your music fully broken until he really know for sure.
Other than listening to the two sets of speakers I listed above another important decision factor was I did a lot of reading and went after as much info as I could find.
A huge fan of these speakers and I mean a huge fan is Saran Ebaen of 6moons. I understand reviews are just that reviews but Srajan has a decade into informing us about the progress of this company and its speaker line. If you read all of these reviews that took place over the last decade or so you start to get a real picture of the company and its growth and evolution and the idea that Srajan is doing more than just reviewing these speakers. He owns them and uses them and adores them and has bought each version of the Saadhana. This long term perspective gave me some great insight into how these current models came to where they are today.
Srajan really outlined where and how they came to be today. With all of my purchases I always try to do research and be smart about it and do my due diligence but I am noting this here today because I have never been giving such a long term, clear view into a product or company for any of purchase I have made and I wanted to share with you guys.
It really started and ended with me listening to these speakers and how they offered me so much of what I am looking for that had me making this decision. It did and always should come down to how they sound to you. What made the process more fun and enlightening was the great reading and insight provided by Srajan. I recommend to anyone even those not even interested in buying these speakers to read these reviews. I am a lot smarter for it. |
Soix
Thank you so much for your feedback and kind words. I really appreciate it :).
It's been a work in progress for sure and I can't wait to get them here and all set up. I have tracking numbers for the amps and the speakers are going out today so I am super excited.
For anyone curious I bought the speakers & amps from World Wide Wholesales in Ontario Canada and I live in Massachusetts and it was a super smooth, fun and an easy process. I worked with Bob and he is a riot and a total audiophile and it was awesome. He also took a couple trades that he gave me surprisingly real strong values on. Awesome-Awesome guy so I thought to give him a well deserved shout out to my fellow Audiogon comrades!
http://worldwidewholesales.com/ |
Fantastic responses and thank you very much... Really great stuff... I mean sure its just audio people talking audio which in itself is great but its funny because you guys are right for sure I'll never know till I hear them.
Mechans is a man after my own heart...
Rdoc & Bill_k good points! I know these guys are cookers... I live MA which helps but we have some pretty hot summers up here...
Mitch2: Great info - thank you quite helpful...
Jriggy: actually had one on load that I tried with my Sophia 2's a little way back. Not the best match for them in a pretty big room but a great sounding amp and if I could swing a good trade deal I think that amp perfectly fits the best of tubes out off ss but no used ones out there. Prob why cuz they legit sound like tubes. I don't care if the designer tweaks them to sound nice with distortion or what ever. If they sound great and can drive the speakers then heck ya!!!
Bill_k: I agree 100%. Man the more I chat with you guys the more I wish I could hear first.
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OK just for the heck of it. Here is a hypothetical. I know you don't have much to go on but with what you do have and if you were me (back to hypothetical) and you had to choose one of these two what one would you get:
TUBES
Conrad Johnson LP140M Mono Blocks
LP140M - 140 watts from 30 Hz to 15 KHz at no more than 1.5 % THD or IMD into 4 ohms (also available connected for 8 or 16 ohm loads)
Sensitivity: .5 V to rated power
Frequency Response (at 10 watts): 20 Hz to 20 kHz, +/- .25 dB
Hum and Noise: 102 dB below rated power
Input Impedance: 100 kOhms
Tube Complement:
LP140M - 3 x 6922, 4 x 6550 (per amp)
LP140M - 16D x 19W x 6.38H inches
Weight:
LP140M – 53 Lbs x (per amp)
Retail $14,000.00
or the
CLASS A SS
Clayton Audio - M300 Monoblock Amplifiers
Class A Operation
Fully Balanced
XLR Inputs Only
Thermal Protection
Power on Sequence Control
Rated power output:
300 Watts continuous rms into 8 ohms
600 Watts continuous rms into 4 ohms
Gain: 26 db
Input Impedance: 100k ohms
Power Consumption: Low Bias Mode - 300 Watts
Power Consumption: High Bias Mode - 800 Watts
Dimensions: 11.00” W by 20” D by 11.50” H
Weight: 87 lbs. each
Heat sink capacity: 0.13 degrees C/Watt Stable Temperature
Reading at Center of heat sink: 122.1° F. Stable Temperature
Reading at Right and Left Edge of heat sink: 124.1° F.
- POWER and BIAS Switches -
Note: Switches are not visible from front panel. Instead they are hidden from view and accessible from underneath the front of the chassis
Retail $13,500
If trades we not involved I would love to add others but after a good amount of searching and emailing and calling and chating it seems these are the best 2 options I have come up with. Nothing is perfect and I know people may think I am crazy for thinking so but I value the recommendations and feedback I get here and appreciate it and it plays a bigger part in my decision making process than people think it should but I love getting as much info as I can and then going with my gut and shooting from the hip. There is no doubt for my taste and situation the CJ is the safer bet but I am not afraid to take chances and would love to hear what you guys think even though some people think it shouldn't matter... It does to me :) |
Denon1 & Lloydelee21 & the rest of you guys that have been great and gave me some great input:
Thank you so much I took the advice of Denon1 & Lloydelee21 and have been speaking with Eric Love quite a bit and have a trade offer on the table the table with him.
It will take a bit more to make the deal I have to add in another pre of mint to the deal than I have to with the other 2 amp deals I have already spoke about because his is a new demo with full warranty vs the Clayton M300 and the LP140 which are used. The Clayton and CJ are mono's and his is a stereo amp. The only thing is I will need to include my extra BAT VK30r w/Phono to make the deal. Not sure I would use that pre its a little older and kind of dark sounding but even with the others I was leaning toward driving direct but it was nice to know I had a back up pre to A/B with if needed and I lose that with the Plinus SA-103 but in return I get a easier to use stereo amp and a new one that is only a couple months old and it was a demo but very few hours. With full warranty. What do you guys think:
Clayton M300 mono's keep my BAT VK30 (older dark 6922)
CJ LP140 monos keep my VK30
Plinus SA-103 stereo new demo w/full warranty No BAT
Would really love to know what all you guys. Please - Thanks !!!
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