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Classical music listening... what is a better source High Rez or Vinyl?

For many of us who really enjoy classical music, for me it is Baroque and opera, what is the better and more consistent for source high fidelity listening?

I am a mid hifi guy and have a Pro-ject Classic SB turntable with a high output MC Sumiko Blue Point No. 2 cartridge.. I am using a Jolida JD 9II Tube phone stage, with a vintage Telefunkin tube upgrade.

I have a Rogue Sphinx 3 integrated amplifier, with a vintage Mozada tube upgrade. My digital source DAC/SACD/CD is a Yamaha CD-2100 player.

I have refurbished Ohm H's loud speakers.

I have been picking up many vintage classical albums recently, mainly 1980’s releases in excellent condition too, at my local transfer station, and it has been mixed bag in comparison to my high resolution music files and SACD collection.

I was expecting much more when it came to vinyl and classical but I have not been as won over, as I have been with rock and jazz on vinyl.

My experience with SACD and high resolution, 96/24 or higher, has been very rewarding with a wide variety of classical music. Opera really shines in digital IMHO. Strong and full on classical piece are quite stunning on many a SACD releases I own. Rachel Podger’s Vivaldi: L’estro armonico - 12 concerti, Op. 3 on SACD is an excellent example of the audio quality I demand, as this recording is exceptional! Plus there are are very few new remastered vinyl releases for classical, particularly for opera, these days. A perfect example of this is Shubert’s Winterreise featuring Joyce DiDanato and pianist Yannick Nezet-Sequin, which I saw performed at Carnegie Hall for this recording and which sounds phenomenal in 96/24, and was release recently.

That would seem counter intuitive but that is clearly what the market is showing.

On one of these threads I recall someone posting how strings of violins, and the intensity that they are played at, can lead to degraded sound quality depending on the type of cartridge used.

I want to hear back from the classical music posse here to help me get to that higher level of listening with classical vinyl.

Is it the cartridge?

Or should I just stay with my digital sources?


idigmusic64

Showing 8 responses by melm

melm
1,085 posts
 
Is the "Paris" LP an all analog recording?
melm
1,085 posts
 
As phrased, this is kind of a non-sensical question. What matters is the quality of the front end components on both sides of the issue.

To create a more specific comparison, I believe a well chosen $5000 digital front end can now clearly outperform a well chosen $10,000 analog front end. This can be shown easily even using well chosen 44/16 files from analog sources available also as vinyl.
melm
1,085 posts
 
Not looking to pick a fight here.  I am an old-time classical music analog lover still with major investment in analog.  Until about 4 years ago I couldn't listen to digital for more than 20 minutes at a time.  I would have been in full agreement then.   Problem is that while everyone knows that you had to spend some bucks for good analog, digital with great specs seemed to come pretty cheap.  I thought when I bought an Oppo 105 that digital nirvanas should have arrived.  But classical demands so much more.

Truth is you have to spend more on digital and do it with the kind of care we analog veterans are accustomed to.  In any event, I am here at the moment simply to take issue with the "the nuances that only vinyl can offer" remark.   Given that a favored LP is giving the sort of pleasure described, and I don't for a moment doubt that, some credit must be allocated to its digital source.

Cheers.
melm
1,085 posts
 
@bkeske

Cowboy Junkies ‎– The Trinity Session is a digital recording.  Surely there was a DAC somewhere in the process of producing the vinyl, that would have provided the same profound immersion, etc., as you found in the lp.  That is, unless you think there was something extra added in the process of producing the vinyl that was not in the original digital R-Dat recording and that provided all that good stuff..

Apparently mastering a CD is a process where things can go wrong, or at least not very right.  In that sense it is just like mastering an LP.  I have experienced what you have, that is an LP clearly outperforming digital.  I have also experienced the opposite.

Finally, though quality does not correlate perfectly with expense, generally speaking if you spent less on your DAC than you have spent on your turntable + arm + Cartridge + phono preamplifier it is not a fair comparison, IMO.


melm
1,085 posts
 
@bkeske

Well good luck.  It would be great if it works for you.  I have a couple of HMV disks derived from EMI British productions, though not the Mahler 9.  The German vinyl is very quiet, but the sharp edges seem rounded as compared to original EMIs.  Here's hoping YMMV.  
melm
1,085 posts
 
@bkeske

You will probably love the Barbirolli Berlin Mahler 9.  It's a great performance and a very good recording, if just a bit dry.  If you do, and on the theory that the best pressings come from the country where originally produced, you might then want to search for a British pressing.  I have a British (EMI) pressing as well as an Angel.  Of course they are quite different.

The liner notes will tell you that Barbirolli recorded the last movement first.  He wanted the orchestra to be at their best for it.
melm
1,085 posts
 
A major reason that some digital listening disappoints those familiar with analog is the very poor analog section even in some of the most expensive DACs.  They often compare VERY unfavorably with the "analog section" of a phono pre, which is to say, the phono pre itself.  But they are there to do a similar job.

A DAC may have a sophisticated digital section providing apparent transparency, space and dynamics to a bunch of instruments that seem themselves to be made of cardboard.  And some listeners think these DACs are great--especially after good reviews.  Without providing as much in effort to the analog section though, the DAC will miss the harmonic richness and depth of sound we usually attribute to good analog.  

From the point of the DAC maker, most of his potential customers may have never heard  a musical instrument except through a loudspeaker.   So some multi-kilobuck DACs use chip op amps costing a buck or two at the center of their analog section.  Call me cynical. 

Replacing chip op amps in DACs of all sorts with good discrete analog sections has become a hobby to some and a profession for others.

So, if you're an analog person, as I am, don't tell me of your disappointment with your expensive DAC.  Look inside first.  Then we can talk.

And by the way, while amp and preamp manufacturers are pleased to tell you what's inside their cases, DAC makers often are not.  Rather, they often try hard to hide what's inside.  As do many of the reviewers.
melm
1,085 posts
 
@idigmusic64
But for very special designs, like batteries for the PS, I would make sure any solid state phono pre I might buy would have a linear power supply and a discrete amplification section. I would look for the same in the analog section of a DAC.

As for the analog section, usually if the manufacturer’s description doesn’t make a special point of a discrete section, it won’t have one. But if you’re buying, you can always ask. If you open up your dac (or a clear picture of insides) you will either see transistors, indicating discrete, somewhere near the audio outs or you will see only chip op amps.

As for linear power supply, for that you need to see a transformer. And it will be heavy.

I have personally found that long-term enjoyment of a component (as distinct from quick reviews) correlates with quality components inside.
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