Classic Ortofon Cartridges: The MC2000 MK II or the MC3000 MK II?
Dear @neonknight : I 'm surprised that you like it the 5000 that's of all ooo series is the worst one but your system and priorities are diferent from mine and could be that you want to have all those Ortofon series. The 7500 is better but not exiting/emotional.
R. |
Dear @lewm : You must follow the cartridge manufacturer advise on VTF and any opther set up parameter.
The higher VTF range in Ortofon cartridges vs other cartridge models is nothing to worried about because Ortofon knows what it does and everything is prefectly calculated for.
2.2grs. is out of question for the MC 2000. @edgewear is rigth on that.
R. |
Dear @lewm : My take in the MC 2000 issue is that was not through STPH JGH review who puts that cartridge in the market map but was the 1984 Audio review by B.Pisha because this magazine had higher circulation that STP.
In reality the cartridge had succes not in the " high-end " niche but out side it.
In those old times the MC 2000 was the more expensive cartridge down there: 2K because needs the T2000 and was a new road to Ortofon when its top of the line was a really good performer the MC30 that had a price of 600 plus the T30 SUT,
I was fortunated to bougth it at very special price directly to Ortofon because in those times was not an Ortofon distributor in my county México and from Ortofon I bougth the MC3000, MC3000MK2, MC5000, etc.
In reality Ortofon was out of the high-end market because its great cartridges were not reviewed by the high-end magazines. Your 7500 is a good example: no one cares about Ortofon was in the mid-fi market and was magazines as Audio who really help to some high-end audiophiles experienced with.
You are an example of what I'm saying here: you know about the MC2000 or the 7500 here at Agon several years after those cartridges appeared in the market. In the Asia market audiophiles had and have in very good place Ortofon through the SPU models and today new catalog.
Reviewers turn around their faces to Ortofon with the Jubilee and latter on the A90 and its today sucess came with the Anna.
R. |
Dearn @neonknight : "" It may very well be possible that there are a level of differences that my system is not up to the task of presenting. "" Overall you own very good system. Your main cartridges are really good but I don’t know if are mated with the " rigth " tonearm. I owned the 505 not my cup of tea, I owned the 5 that’s is better tonearm. I had experiences with the SOTA TTs that are very good units but not with your other 2 TTs. Maybe you could be rigth in your statement and maybe you can get higher resolution with some changes or fine tunnig in your analog rig. In the other side your speakers woofer crossover is at 750 hz so in theory that driver is running with frequencies around 28hz-30hz to maybe 850hz-900hz, this is a wide range and the developed IMD is high and does not permits better resolution/definition on the critical reproduced frequencies in that range. I don’t know if you use your subs as a reinforcing/go deep bass or if you are using its high pass filter to liberate the speakers of bass frequencies to lower the IMD and in this way achieve a better resolution/definition where it matters the most. This is that the subs handle frequencies from around 90hz and below it and the 4365 from 90hz and up. Doing this is critical for room/system higher overall quality performance levels. R. |
From Wiki too: """ Known as alpha alumina in materials science communities or alundum (in fused form) or aloxite[20] in the mining and ceramic communities aluminium oxide finds wide use. Annual world production of aluminium oxide in 2015 was approximately 115 million tonnes, over 90% of which is used in the manufacture of aluminium metal.[7] The major uses of speciality aluminium oxides are in refractories, ceramics, polishing and abrasive applications. Most ceramic eyes on fishing rods are circular rings made from aluminium oxide..."" No one talk of that formal ceramic definition. R. |
Dear @rossb : I owned too the Jubilee and been a very good quality performer its overall " presentation " is different from the Windfeld model due that are way different kind of overall designs. As with any cartridge it's not easy to compare to other cartridges because we can't be totally sure that this or that cartridge mates the better with the tonearm. We could have a good idea of their performance levels and from thoser kind of comparisons we have to be sure that the alignment and overall set up of each cartridge is accurated for both samples and that the SPL for the comparison sessions be the same. Good that you own all those Ortofon cartridges. Enjoy it. R. |
Dear @neonknight : Thank's to your thread yesterday I was looking for Ortofon 000 manuals or something that can help on information and I found out one box of 2000 and one big box of the 5000 and this one with only the Ortofon usual VTF tool and that finding makes me to remember this: due that no Ortofon distributor in my country they decided to sale for me directly and that's what I did it with my MC 2000's and latter on I look for the MC 3000 and bougth it from Ortofon. Been accustomed to the 2000 the 3000 disapointed a little and when I changed ( time latter. ) from a headshell by accident I put so many torque in the crews that that ceramic just broken. Ortofon was so kidness that with out charge other than both ways shipping offered to me the MC5000 that latter on I sold and I can't remember why I still have the original double box. Now, the 5000 was a good performer but I prefered the 2000, specially the one with boron cantilever. After that I bougth a second hand ( low hours ) 3000 MK2 that I like it more. There is no doubt that the 3000/5000 where builded with ceramic not what the Ortofon link said it. Here two links that talks what is that ceramic: https://www.stereophile.com/phonocartridges/188ortofon/index.html http://korfaudio.com/hs-a01 Btw, I owned SAEC and Victor/JVC ceramic headshells: SAEC white color and JVC in near black. Look for the 7500 and not so much for the 5000. Only an opinion. R. |
Dear @best-groove : "
I use one of them without the body; the sound is much better without a body; " I did it with my Allaerts MC2 Finish Gold and you are rigth: betterquality performance. VdH knew and knows about and that's why the Colibri is an open cartridge design. As almost anything in audio less is more and the best cartridge body is not cartridge body. R. |
Dear @best-groove : The MC-30 manufacturer spec was 0.08mv but each sample was tested in its main specs that is what you received in the card certification. The MC 20 spec was even lower 0.07mv Something that I can’t explain is why ( from 1948. ) in those years Ortofon was not a very well regarded cartridge designer/manufacturer by the " high-end " market even its great contributions in the cartridge development and not only LOMC cartridge bu MM/MI too. Seems to me that almost no one but only a few audiophiles as you or edgewear and some other gentlemans gave and give the real credit that Ortofon deserves in the cartridge market. When every one talks about: ZYX or Koetsu or Dynavector, Clearaudio, Lyra, etc, etc..but not Ortofon down there,. It was with the Anna and A90 when the people turn his head for Ortofon. I can’t remember, from its top designs, any Ortofon with a bad sound or " so so " performance. Its quality level always up to the task and a challenge for any other top cartridge out there. R. |
Dear @ihcho : ""
compared to other LoMC Ortofon cartridges, like MC20, SL15, SL20? I've used them with MCA-76, T-20 and T-30, and they all sound fantastic, but never had a chance to use MCx000s. I used MC100 briefly, but it was not as good as others. "" There is no comparison with the cartridges you name it. I still own the MC-10 and the 20 this one is pretty decent cartridge even today. I owned the MC200 and after 30 days I sold it. Your T30 is way better than what we can imagine where its frequency range goes from 4hz to 200K !. In those old times the MC-30 was the top of the line till appeared the 2000. I bought a demo sample ( at very good price. ) and I think that even today is good cartridge. Btw, if I remember the first time that Ortofon used in its cartridge designs the patented WRD ( damping suspension that still today continue to use. ) ) was with the MC-30. You can read somewhere in the net this about the critical/important Ortofon design issue: "" which selectively damps resonances in the mechanical system and consists of two layers of special rubber with a platinum disc between them. At low frequencies the two rubber bearings enable the cantilever to make wide movements, while at higher frequencies the platinum disc acts as a sort of brake, progressively damping the movements with increases in frequency, so that at very high frequencies only the front rubber bearing is working "" R. |
Dear @neonknight : The A95 is better than the 90 and I agree with you about but these cartridges not only were designed for the 90 and 95 Ortofon anniversary as limited edition where some Ortofon collectors are and were really happy with. But those designs were and are an Ortofon departure in overall design and specially in the cartridge body shape and the way they builded that body material used. Normally Ortofon shows something new in its anniversary designs. The 7500 is too a limited edition by the 75 anniversary and really good performer. For you this is the one to go if you want a different top Ortofon cartridge with out all the deals you have to do with the MC2000: extreme high compliance, extreme output level and higher weigth that the desired for its compliance. About the MC2000 almost no body cares on it ( at least in Agon. ) and several audiophiles not even knew of that model till several years ago I brought here as an owner of that model and after that some gentlemans started to be interested/curiosity on it to confirm if what I posted about was a reality . @lewm is a very well regarded Agoner and confirmed it in this thread. Miss I my MC2000? not really I owned for years and enjoy it at its best, so I move on. Btw, this humble AT today cartridge not only could be a challenge for your top cartridges at very good price point that you can get for your today and future casual listening sessions: https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-coil/at-art9xa R. |
Dear @neonknight : I owned 3 MC2000 and owned/own/listened almost any Ortofon cartridge in my system, so certainly I like Ortofon designs. "" It has to have the OEM cantilever. "" Not really, it was not that aluminum cantilever what makes the real difference but the cartridge engine and suspension design . The MC2000 has an over 30cu on compliance and yes it's a really great cartridge tracker and along what I pointed out from this tracking abilities comes part of that very high quality performance. In one of my samples I bended the cantilever and time latter I decided to send to VdH to fix it. I received it with boron cantilever and VdH stylus tip and as good as the original was/is the boron/Vdh performs with better quality performance level with out loosing the original cartridge attributes. So, you can buy it in almost whatever condition ( about cantilever/stylus ) and you can send to Northwest or Expert stylus or Vdh to fix it. My boron/Vdh was unique and probably the only one out there, I sold it. I'm not a collector but I owned and own a lot of cartridge just to know its " signature " quality level and obviously to enjoy MUSIC. So, don't worry about that " original " word at least with the 2000. Now, the MK2 is a way different cartridge and there is no comparison but the 3000MK2 is something to listen and yes different than the MC2000 but not to different. In the other side you can look for a second hand A90/A95 and you are " there " too with out be disturbing your self for that very low MC2000 output, its high weigth and very high compliance because you have to fix all these cartridge characteristics for the 2000 can shows it. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
