Class D amps that are superior to all or most?
there is no "flawless" amplification class I didn't say flawless, I said the "closest" to "being technically perfect", which is still but a dream within a dream. And amps aren't designed using maths, EE laws and test instruments, and then fine tuned using the same, anyone that doesn't do this, I suggest you stay well away those voodooists and snake oilers. Cheers George |
Can someone answer this for me please, especially George... The only "defects" good class-A’s have is the heat they produce, this does not effect the sound, otherwise they are the closest to being the perfect topology so far. Unless you live in central Australia, then the windows would have to be open and you’d hear this https://youtu.be/4lZt-JLhsg4?t=96 Guess who he’s laughing at?😂 |
I don't like leaving my amps on 24/7, does anyone do that when you're out of town?Don't listen to them if they do🤦♂️. Just turn on your amps a 1/2hr before listening. It's also good for the capacitators conditioning, to turn the amps off as they drain and can recharge again from empty. Cheers George |
https://ibb.co/gt4qW9x Challenge your self, nothing I said was aimed at you, yet you took it to heart, wonder why. Whatever, your new class-D will tell if it’s remotely equal to the better high A- biased linear Class-|A/B amps, if it ever sees the light of day. |
It’s no wonder he didn’t like a class D amp -- most have vanishingly small distortion. They have other problems also, like the Ice-Power’s 1200AS2 that has massive phase shift from it’s output filter way down into the mids (red trace) https://ibb.co/J2Hns7s and also (blue trace) a sharp rising output impedance starting at also at the same frequency as the phase shift does. Sure throw maybe a **** load of feedback at it and it could fix it, but to what other detriment. Cheers George |
Facts are Everyone likes what good Class-D’s do in the bass on loads that are not too severe, but many hear some thing not quite right with Class-D in the upper mids/highs with many speakers, and this is it’s Achilles heel. Technics (SE-R1/SU-R1000) claim to get rid of it by making the switching frequency 3 x higher, 1.5mhz, so that then the output filter is also 3 x higher and therefore it has little or no influence down into the upper mids/highs. Most Class-D’s that have around 600khz switching frequencies, have output filters that have effects down into the upper mids and highs. And yes throwing a **** load of feedback may fix it, but the best amp "theoretically" would be ones that use no feedback if it can be done without distortions, or very little or local not global. Cheers George |
carlsbad Coincidentally I just got MLs and my tinnitus is quite a bit louder than normal. I've wondered if it was the brighter highs. but it is probably just that I'm listening to it more. I don't listen very loud, in brighter speakers I listen quieter. I'd say you haven't really heard what those ESL's can achieve in the upper mids/highs, until they are driven with a good linear high bias class-A/B amp. Cheers George |
timlub1,865 posts05-08-2021 10:31am I believe it is, as the best I’ve heard Belcanto M600 monoblocks (NC500) is through a very benign 6ohm 2 way stand mount, that used a Raven ribbon tweeter, which is basically a load that looks like a 6ohm resistor. On more expensive ML ESL’s and other good floor standers they didn’t sound as good through the upper mids and highs, a little artificial and cold. And as far as measurements go, class-D get exponentially worse distortion figures when differently loaded the higher the frequency is, look at any tested Stereophile distortion graphs done on class-D (new Mytek Brooklyn) rising distortions upward from 1.5khz https://www.stereophile.com/images/421Mytekfig06.jpg Compared to a linear amplifier, much better far lower, and starts to rise higher and gradual, not so savagely rising https://www.stereophile.com/images/1115BAHB2fig07.jpg Cheers George |
Yes and you have to remember all those measurements are made using Stereophile AP Aux-0025 low pass filter Stereophile:The Audio Precisions Aux-0025 is a very steep low pass low power filter filter between amp and analyzer which makes things look even better than what they really are. Used in all the Stereophile measurements in the last 10 years. Without it before (Stereophile got the filter) things looked much worse, but showed was what was "really coming out of the speakers terminal" they looked like this, (same amp) what you get is the 1st picture when buying the amp. (switching frequency noise evident) https://www.stereophile.com/images/1212AM1fig02.jpg When the Stereophile AUX-0025 filter was put in place they look like this (switching noise filtered out by Stereophile’s test filter) https://www.stereophile.com/images/1212AM1fig03.jpg not what you get when buying the amp. Solution to rid the switching noise in the audio band, and it’s by product phase shift: Raise the switching frequency 3 x so to the amps output filter, then the switching noise will also be reduced by 3 times , so to the unacceptable hf phase shift, like this Icepower 1200as2 in red https://ibb.co/kMZd9bF Like Technics do with their SE-R1 Class-D and some say the SU-R1000 integrated also. Cheers George |
Just your opinion. NO!!!! Like I said. Hey all I asked was give us something, anything at all, to back this statement up of yours below, that’s all, nothing more nothing less. ricevs |
Things need to be kept honest here, if not this forum would have been overrun by fusers threads. Instead of being shifted to the "Misc Audio" forum every-time one popped up here thank god by those that care and reporting them. (Should be call the BS forum)The admin here I don’t think are very technical, so they go with some of the tech heads here on these threads giving them info when reporting, but then there’s the sharks that pray on the gullible that say just enough to suck them in but not quite enough to get them deleted.(they are the used cars salesmen of audio) Cheers George |
Hey all I asked was give us something, anything at all. To back this statement up of yours below, that's all, nothing more nothing less. ricevs |
Give up while your behind. And I asked what you to tell us what would do to it to make it sooo much better?? WE’RE ALL STILL WAITING!!! And I promise not to say a word, unless your answer is voodoo or snake oil. ricevs |
ricevs"Snake oilers" just don’t get it, they prey on the gullible here to line their pockets. https://ibb.co/K2k7Dz8 And please what differences are you going to make that you say you can see in this pic will transform this GaN Class-D???? https://www.underwoodhifi.com/sites/default/files/GaN%20350%20inside%20shot.jpg |
So, does muting my EVS1200 have a benefit, and if so how often and for how long? Stop calling it a mute, (as by ricevs, IF correct?) the amp is OFF!, and yes all the electro caps are drained and everything is de-powered and charged up from empty when you turn it on again. (good for the caps) And it is NOT on and in a warmed up state 24/7 as some😵 here think!!! A mute only stops the input signal and leaves the amp switched on! It may possibly have a input sens circuit (standby) which can turn the amp all on when a music signal is detected at the input like a subwoofer standby. |
Sorry, wrong Curly, it was tweak1, same same. tweak1 I said "Muting" You (ricevs said) your words!!!!!!!!! George is wrong, in this case. The muting circuit in the EVS1200 amp both shorts the inputs to ground and puts the amp in standby (turns off the main power supply.....SO NO CAPS ARE BEING CHARGED!!). Like I said the amp is off not muted. No caps being charged, means no amp is on to be warmed up!!!!! So leaving the amp in this condition does nothing for it being warmed up for it to sound better either as eric thinks! And like I said your not doing all electrolytic caps any favor’s by leaving amps on anyway, your making them have less storage capacity as they get lower uF, instead of being re-generated (polarized) when turn off and fully drained then charged back up again when turned back on. In other words they get a false empty floor memory, like some batteries. And not to mention your cooking them and drying out the electrolyte as ieales tried to tell you. Once again, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8W_zAD5Mcw yeah baby! |
You guys really need to remember what ** are in your post I said To those who want to understand, why it’s better to turn off your amps, here it is simply as possible. Nonoise asked My EVS 1200 has dual muting switches. Will muting them be as effective? I said "Muting" You (ricevs said) your words!!!!!!!!! George is wrong, in this case. The muting circuit in the EVS1200 amp both shorts the inputs to ground and puts the amp in standby (turns off the main power supply.....SO NO CAPS ARE BEING CHARGED!!). Like I said the amp is off not muted. No caps being charged, means no amp is on to be warmed up! So leaving the amp in this condition does nothing for it being warmed up for it to sound better either as 24/7 eric thinks!!!!!!!!! Once again, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8W_zAD5Mcw |
This is just too hard to resist. We got Larry and Mo, but wait now, here come’s Curly!. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8W_zAD5Mcw |
George, No it’s lies being told to members for the sake of "trying" to gain notoriety. End of story, if the power supply (SMP or Linear) is not switch on and no electrolytic caps are being charged up (as you said), the neither is the amplifier!!! SO THE AMP CANNOT STAY WARMED UP no matter even if you leave it in this state 24/7 like the other one says. You guys are just digging yourselves a massive technical bottomless pit. |
Dig that hole too big and you’ll fall in, you have no idea. EVS1200 amp both shorts the inputs to ground and puts the amp in standby (turns off the main power supply.....so no caps are being charged). OMG!!!!!!!! This all started because of this stupid statement "leaving power amps on 24/7 makes it sound better" And Ricevs thinking his does, after saying this. If the power supply is turned OFF as Ricevs says, and no cap are being charged as Ricevs says, the input gets muted to ground as Ricevs says. END OF STORY THE BLOODY AMP IS TURNED OFF!!!!! There is no "warming up" of the power amplification circuit done 24/7 with the amp in this state, regardless of what auto sensing are on. You two get it in your heads and out of the https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/scaled/2013/12/18/article-0-1A2B262D00000578-818_636x382.jpg |
No! Your the sad one for even entering into this. To others, this all started from this post of mine below, re leaving power amps on 24/7, because it went against what Eric preached. And the reasons for turning off the amps, which conditions (polarizes) all the electrolytic power supply caps and any other smaller ones. "Just turn on your amps a 1/2hr before listening. To those who want to understand, why it's better to turn off your amps, here it is simply as possible. (as they like to be drained and recharged otherwise a false permanent "empty floor" happens and your electrolytic power supply caps won’t have the uF storage ability they once had when new, and therefore reducing continuous large transient power supply ability, and introducing higher hum at those stages also) Cheers George |
Really!! You started the personal abuse post in your 3rd last post end of page 4 out of the blue, it's there for all to see.👀 lay off whatever it is, it's really affecting you 🤦♂️ https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2210662 |
Yes not the best looking, but what’s inside is what counts, they "could" be as good as $5k ones for just $699 Otherwise if all that’s important is the look, then I call those "Glitz Queens" and they are usually the ones that parade their glitzy stuff on glitzy racks in between the speakers. Not caring they are totally stuffing up the imagine properties by doing that. But they don’t care as they are hypnotized by the shimmer of their equipment they are gazing at while trying to listen.. Cheers George |
Underwood HiFi was launching a 200Wpc GAN amp for $3000 under the LSA And don't throw this new one away yet just because it's very inexpensive. A US made and designed Class-D using GaN technology, for just $699!!!!!!!! https://www.classdaudio.com/mini-gan-5-balanced-power-amplifier.html https://premium-audio.com/ Cheers George |
To most Class-D's Technics SE-R1 https://www.technics.com/us/products/r1/se-r1.html Technics SU-R1000 (maybe) https://www.technics.com/us/products/reference-class/integrated-amplifier-su-r1000.html But they probably still don’t quite reach the sound of the very best solid state high bias linear amps. Cheers George |
