Changing from an XV1-S

Hi DCarol,

Warning - dealer disclaimer.

When I read a post like yours, the questions that immediately that come to mind are - what is the poster after, and what is the weak link in his signal chain?

With all due respect to the posters above, I beg to differ. They have given you excellent advice about cartridges - what you WANT, but not what you NEED ... methinks.

If the cartridge is not worn out, I would keep it and look to your turntable and tonearm. The XV-1s is not the weak link in your signal chain.

While it's true that you might be getting tired of the XV1s, this has more to do with your turntable and tonearm than with your cartridge.

None of this is to say that there aren't other wonderful cartridges out there, and the A-90 certainly is one of them.

Notice the comments about the others being better "by a small margin". In my experience, I've found setup inconsistencies to easily cover these small margins.

You have bigger gains to make, and especially for your budget allocation.

If you happen to make it to the Audiofest this October, we'll be highlighting the XV1s and the A-90 on our turntables. You'll really hear both of these fine cartridges strut their stuff.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Hi Downunder / DCarrol / All ...

As a manufacturer/dealer, it's inappropriate to lend advice on arm/turntable selection in this forum. Anyone who is interersted knows they can contact me and/or Audiofeil for private consultations.

Let's just say that for the combined price of an A-90 and the resale value of the DCarrrol's turntable and tonearm, a fairly significant upgrade is possible.

I understand the thirst for a change in flavors, but my point is, that DCarrol has never really heard his Dynavector.

Over the years, I've shifted my approach to answering questions like this by attempting to focus on what the customer is really after. In the early days, I would have leaped to answer the question the way many have done in this thread. I meant well (as does everyone in this thread), but I forgot to step back and look at the big picture.

When someone asks me about a new cartridge, the first question I ask is "what's wrong with what you're currently hearing?". From there, we have a basis for understanding the system interactions and how best to achieve the customer goals - both in the short term as well as the long terrm.

Audiogon is a great forum, but one of the traps many individuals fall into is buying component after component, in a shotgun approach. I find more individuals who are already thinking of their exit strategy for a component they have yet to purchase.

I'm not encouraging financial irresponsiblilty. Quite the opposite. Buying the right component the first time (even at full retail) saves you money and time over the alternative - buying at a discount, over and over, and over again.

It's the only way we dealers can justify our existence.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

This thread prompts a rant which I just posted on my forum entitled “What’s Wrong With Old Technology?” (http://www.galibierdesign.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=153). I’ll paste it here for your convenience.

The thread title is somewhat provocative, as I'm in no way against continual process improvement resulting from new materials and design refinement. My premise below, is that all great designs are products of stable, mature architectures which are improved over time.

It got me to thinking about the mind of the audiophile, and how they are continually attracted to the latest and greatest, shiny new distraction, with the most significant change being the draining of their checking account and their continuing sonic disappointment. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I've always tried to pick mature, stable designs for both my listening as well as for the products I offer for sale. Companies like Atma-sphere, Quicksilver, and Dynavector produce stable, mature designs that were conceived of correctly the first time around. I like to think my approach with Galibier turntables mirrors their philosophy.

All too frequently, the product that “gets it right” the first time, is penalized in the public eye, because it is “old technology”. What is it about the mind of the typical audiophile that reaches such a conclusion?

If an audiophile looked at a Stradivarius, they’d dismiss it as old technology.

Surely, we live in an ad-driven, marketing intensive world, and we’ve become habituated to our Ipad becoming obsolete before our credit card transaction has been processed.

I look at honest, high-end audio as a respite from this frantic activity, and not an extension of it. I liken our hobby to the “slow food” movement. We have forgotten how to relax – even with the toys created for the purpose of transporting us into another world. When people ask me about vinyl playback, I bring up this contemplative approach as much as I do the sonics. Vinyl is as much an attitude as it is a technology.

Now, the products I embrace (both as an audiophile as well as a manufacturer/dealer) are not perfect (nothing is), but they are mature and stable designs, and they most certainly undergo continual process improvement over time. First and foremost, they honor the music. It is these points I want to drive home.

A great product has a stable, mature architecture, and improvements build on this architecture. I like to bring the example of both the Porsche 911, as well as the bicycle to these conversations. Would you mistake a 2010 911 for a 356 from the 1950’s? Of course not, but the lineage is readily apparent. The same applies with the bicycle, and I would argue for audio components as well (if you know what to look for).

In the case of the bicycle, one could argue that the only improvements since the invention of the derailleur (over a century ago) have been in material science. Surely, integrated brake levers / shifters have been an ergonomic improvement, but frame geometry (for example) has been essentially static for some 80 years – with small changes back and forth. I’m leaving the time-trial bike out of this discussion, and thinking mainly about road bike geometry.

One could argue as well that nothing significant has changed in Porsches in 60 years. The architecture was set at that point, and it’s as valid today as it was then. Surely, a 2010 911 is superior in every way to a 356 from the ‘50’s, but these changes were evolutionary in nature – as material science improved, and of course, electronic control became more sophisticated.

In the world of vacuum tube audio, we’re re-discovering the archives of Bell Labs – seminal research from the 30’s through the 50’s that is as valid today as it was back then. We have more materials choices now than we did then (although one could argue the opposite position with success).

So, when someone tells me that a cartridge like the XV1s, or a product from Atma-sphere or Quicksilver is a dated design, it ruffles my feathers just a bit.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Hi DCarol,

As Dan_ed commented, the best justification we can give for a change like the one you're proposing is "because we want to".

Now, if one starts to try to justify a strategy based on a series of objective principles, your proposed change makes absolutely no sense ... again, because you are dismissing a cartridge you have never really heard.

None of this is to discount the other fine cartridges mentioned in this thread, and in the end, you might actually prefer one of them.

At present however, you are putting the cart before the horse, and shooting the messenger.

From your recent post, your use of the GBP symbol tells me that you live a wee bit South of a Scottish turntable manufacturer.

One of Linn's greatest contributions to the analog world is their educating the public about th importance of observing the analog upgrade hierarchy - first turntable, then arm, and only then ... cartridge. To do it otherwise is putting the cart before the horse.

Take a look at this thread for some commentary on the topic: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1171736594&openfrom&31&4#31.

Enjoy the journey but (like the rest of us) be prepared to eat crow about absolute truths you discover today.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Hi DCarol,

Two countries divided by a common language.

The point I was trying to make is that "because I feel like a change" is as good a reason as any to make a change. It's your money and your musical enjoyment, and you need answer to no one.

When you start a thread on this forum, asking for advice, and priming the conversation with objective reasons however, we will hold your reasoning up to scrutiny - not because we're mean, bur rather for the benefit of everyone's knowledge base.

I'm equally subject to such scrutiny (perhaps moreso as a manufacturer/dealer) - when I think out loud here to float an idea by the group.

I hang out on a climbing forum, and when discussing our "epics" and misadventures, we're far more egoless about it than folks are here about hi-fi. I don't get it.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Hang out (the vernacular) could indeed be construed as a pun. I didn't think of it at the time. I meant it as in "I frequent a climbing forum".

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Hi DCarol,

There’s nothing wrong with buying on looks or anything else that “moves us”. We get to vote with our money, and heck, our spouses and families put up with enough of our quirks and fetishes. We owe it to them to not have a gaggle of wires and a general mess in a shared living space. I’m with you on that one, completely.

I wrestle with the whole form follows function thing in my turntable designs. Since I know I can’t be all things to everyone, I accept it, and let function and modularity drive the process. I realize that fixed, enclosed plinths are returning to “fashion”, and I can’t control that. So it goes, and I’ll have to deal with limiting my audience to fans of the modern / industrial look.

OK, so after a bit of pain, we know that the only way we’re going to take that VPI out of your system is to pry it out of your cold, dead hands. I would however, like to see you try one fairly inexpensive experiment before you start playing with cartridges. This could give you a completely different insight into what you’re after.

I’m recommending a drive architecture change. I don’t do motor/controller upgrades anymore (too busy), but your “neighbors” do: http://www.turntable-power-supply.com/index.htm.

Note, that I’m specifically pointing you away from an SDS upgrade, because you’re after a “flavor change”. A DC drive will give you a different perspective on the music – one you may have been looking for ... or not. There’s only one way to find out.

I think you’ll gain a lot of insight into the general sonic character of a DC drive system and how it may suit both your tastes as well as your current system context.

Either way (new cartridge first, or a drive change first), enjoy the journey.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Hi Peter,

In case you haven't been on this thread http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1278338549&openfrom&63&4#63, our Schroeder Reference / Talea tonearm comparsion in my room at this year's Rocky Mountain Audiofest is shaping up for the Talea to swap between an A90 and an XV1s.

Frank will be using an A90 along witn another cartridge he's yet to pick out.

No doubt, many who will be in attendance that evening will report on their impressions ... and impressions are all that you can walk away with from a three hour session

One more data point ... down the road.

-----

I suspect the XV1t was left out of this discussion due to price point.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

What's been lost in this conversation is the subtle but (to my ears) significant changes that the XV1s has undergone in the last year - benefiting from the development of the XV1t.

I don't want to get into the better/worse discussion on these two obviously fine cartridges, but the person reading this is likely considering the purchase of a NEW cartridge.

Taken in that light, current XV1s should be the subject of this comparison (with the current A90).

Ultimately, one's preferences might be the same ... or not.

The usual dealer disclaimer warning applies.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier