Change to Horns or stay Dynamic


After hearing some incredible horn systems, I am curious if anyone has switched from Dynamic or Planar speakers to horns and why? I am thinking about high end horn systems with compression drivers that operate full range. The bass needs to keep up with the speed of the midrange and highs. Preferably a full range horn system, rather than a hybrid.
dgad

Showing 4 responses by jsadurni

Go horns... Detail is amazing and dynamics like real music, after having had horns for a while my friends systems with dynamic speakers sound like a very nice reproduction of music, horns sound like music right there...I tried a lot of full rangers in open baffle and they were nice, but no challenge for real horns...Lowthers are very good with detail, untill you compare them face to face with a compression driver...For full range drivers you are going to have to add a super tweeter and a sub woofer to patch up a full ranger, and then get rid of any whizzers...
Horns are really the end of the road, they play everything well from a girl with guitar that will make your eyes watery to full Symphonies that will have your heart pounding!
The best soundstage I ever heard was with horns also, side to side, behind the speakers and IN FRONT of the speakers, you will never get that with dynamics speakers.
Sorry for a late response, I have been away from my computer. I have tried Lowthers on M.King transmision line, on Open Baffle and on Front horns, really the best setup for lowthers is front horns they sound very sweet (unlike to how they sound on boxes), even on front horns that load down to 170 hz they dont really go that low, on OB I was cutting them a 100 hz and they were having trouble with that...I do believe Lowther to be the most Dynamic dynamic speaker...lets rephrase that, the most dynamic cone speaker...It gets totally killed by compression drivers, I compared head to head Lowther DX3 and Altec 906 and the difference was night and day (plus I hate whizzers)
For a limited range you can even find more dynamic cone drivers than lowthers (Beyma, 18sound) but for a longer range Lowthers are indeed very good, the thing is that they step on Compression driver territory (500-800 hz) and they have nothing to do there in comparison!
I am actually using a Beyma 1" driver from 1.2khz instead of the Altec 906 I had (I may be changing these soon for either Radian or Beyma 750) I have a 170hz Exp horn with an 18sound driver that goes lower than the Lowthers did and have a fuller tone.
I do have a Supertweeter from 6khz up, the Compression Driver was having trouble on complicated symphonic passages going all the way up.

I love huge Symphonic music I used to have a pass for the local Theater but traffic jams have kept me starving for music. On the best dynamic system I listened to I never could get a full orchestra to play correctly and so I lost interest on reproduced Classical music, once I got into front loaded horns and got a system that could play Classical music properly I almost only listen to it when doing critical listening, for gatherings or parties I play everything.
Once you can listen to the violins on the left, Violas on the center-right and cellos on the right, trumpets on the right mainly and Precussion on the back left you know it is getting there, Last night I was playing Borodins Plovtsian Dances and when the percussions came in (minute 3:10 Antal Dorati version) I jumped off my seat!

Not to say Girl with guitar music doesnt sound good, it sounds wondefully deatiled dynamic and present, but once you have the luxury of a full orchestra playing just for you, its hard to pick something else!
So Change to horns or stay with cones?

I guess this is the right answer not in my words:

Your argument about home audio listening is valid if you listen at fairly low average spl levels of lets say, around 75db. Because for a good sense of dynamics a loudspeaker must be able to easily handle 20db peaks above the average level with no compression. That is the minimum requirement and unfortunately the Scan-dinavian favorites (the drivers used in most high end dynamic speakers) fall short of this target at anything above mid 90's db. So if you want to listen at realistic average levels of say 95 -100 db you will need the speaker to handle a not-so-unrealistic 120db peak levels and that's at the listening position no less.

For audiophile drivers core size and voice coil size are of secondary importance. Contrast this with the pro drivers' big voice coils and oversized and vented magnetic cores that can sustain prolonged periods of abusive power (read 400-600 watts) with just maybe 2db of thermal compression while playing at around 120db average level. There really is no comparison! Thermal compression is real and one of the most important as well as overlooked parameters in loudspeaker performance. It's perhaps not surprising that this is the case for the audiophile speakers as the driver core is the most expensive part of the assembly and the designers using the same logic consciously chose this set of compromises.

But make no mistake, as excessive as these db levels might seem at first, for the person that wants realistic reproduction at the home this is what will be required of the system. (Manga)

Is there a need for an audio system to produce 120 db peak?

Symphony orchestra is playing one flute, but in the next second the orchestra barks with the whole power.
Most of the brass instruments can alone produce 120 db. There are 120 or so different instruments in the orchestra.

You are sitting at row 20, a flute is about 40-45 db. The orchestra BARKS. It is about 120 db at the row 20.
The difference is 80 db.
CD can record 90 db of a difference (called dynamic range). Recording engineer has to compress the sound. Some engineers can hide compression better though, but all sounds are too BIG to fit on CD.
No matter what it is, Jazz you name it. I bet to record a girl with the guitar some 6 db of compression is still needed. (Yurmac)

In my opinion the single most important benefit of a good horn is not increased dynamic contrast, but improved radiation pattern control (though it's nice to have both). The radiation pattern of most loudspeakers narrows and blooms and narrows again very significantly across the spectrum. The result is that the reverberant energy - mostly composed of off-axis radiation - has a different tonal balance from the on-axis sound. Since the ear/brain system is constantly analyzing incoming sounds as either first-arrivals or reflections, and using spectral constant to do so, a large discrepancy in the spectral balance of the first-arrival and reverberant sound makes correct classification more difficult for the ear/brain system; in effect, CPU usage goes up. Often the result over a half-hour or so is listening fatigue - literally, a head-ache because the ear/brain system having to work harder to correctly classify the reverberant energy whose spectral balance is unnatural.

But, don't get the idea that reflections are bad - early ones often are, but late-arriving ones are usually beneficial. A dense, late-arriving, highly diffuse, slowly decaying, spectrally correct reverberant field is what makes a good concert or recital hall sound so delicious.

Horns don't ordinarily give a more diffuse reverberant field than direct-radiator dynamic speakers. If anything, their typically narrower pattern results in a less-diffuse reverberant field; but that narrower pattern often makes it easier to "aim" the horns to minimize early-arrival reflections.

You see, reflections arriving before 10 milliseconds (corresponding to a path length of about 11 feet) are usually detrimental, whereas reflections arriving later than that are usually beneficial, assuming good spectral balance. (Audiokinesis)

Wonderfully put by this fellow audiogoners....
Try to listen to Tactrix horns or LeCleach profiles too, new profiles, implementations and time alignment clean out the tipical horn sound, I had a lot of Vintage horns from Altec Valencias to Hartsfield toploaders and the newer versions are way more sophisticated and better sounding.